A few questions

[JimB]

So I just outfitted the new to me boat this spring for fishing the lake.  I've been out a number of times with marginal success.

 

Just the other day I added a Sub Troll 900 to the mix, so I now have more accurate info.  Today was my 1st run with it.  My questions are:

 

1) Do I fish a specific temperature range?   Sub Troll manual lists most salmon preferring the lower 50's for temp, but I've seen people talking

about looking for upper 40's.

 

2)Using the sub troll, I  kept the speed between 2.2 and 2.5 or so.   I run a mix of spoons, cheated spoons, flasher/fly, and a dipsy with flasher fly.

Are these speeds acceptable?  I know each one probably has a sweet spot, but I'm looking for a decent average speed.

 

3)I'm using 10 pound balls.   They don't really show up well on my fish finder, as they obviously tend to scope.  This means that 60' on my line counter probably means 50' or less in

actual depth.    If I'm targeting a depth, is there some "formula" to compensate for scope?   I know as you go deeper, the scope increases....how do you know you've hit your desired depth?   Is actual

depth an issue, or is it all temperature based?

 

4)If I'm trying to run cheated spoons, I know I need a "bow" in the down line.    When letting out the cannon ball, just how much tension do I keep on the line as it runs out?    Do I shoot

for a 1:1 ratio of cannon ball to line counter?  Or 2:1 etc.   Say my rigger counter says 60'.   I've been trying to keep the rod counter around 80' or so.

 

I know there are a billion opinions out there, and these are some questions that

will have a thousand answers!    I'm just trying to get a basic start to the next 10 years of trying to somewhat figure this whole sport out.

 

If you have advice, and can keep it simple, I would greatly appreciate input.   I know lure color, size etc plays a big part, but I'm just trying to get a feel for the

physical aspect of the set up at this point.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Jim

 

 

 

 

[LongLine]

Now that you have a probe use it to find where the water changes temp real quick.  This is the thermocline.  Put a lure below it, one in it and some above it.  (54F is the temp of the thermocline)  Let the fish tell you where they are.

 

Your probe ball will not ride at the same depth as the other due to increased blowback.  That's why they recommend running at least two lbs heavier on it.

 

You can't eliminate that bow in your line.  Put enough tension on the line so that you have a good bow in the rod when you're all set.  Some guys bend it all the way over.  When I put my lower rod down, I just loosen the drag a bit & let the ball take it down.  The cheater is free on the main line, it will find it's own depth. 

 

Average speed is probably fine.  Suggest you don't troll in a straight line with a mixed spread.   I tend to run clean spoons a little faster.

 

Tom B.

(LongLine)

[JimB]

Thanks for the response Longline.    

 

Still wondering if there is a way to know how much depth you "lose" due to blow back.   If I let it out 70', is it actually only down 50?   I'm wondering if the depth isn't as important as the temperatures.  If

that is the case, then it really doesn't matter how "deep" you go, it's finding the right temps?

 

I'm actually surprised that only one person responded...I thought I was opening a can of "how to" worms....

 

Jim

[LongLine]

Jim,  The amount of blowback you get in the cable depends on the weight of the ball, the diameter of the cable, the speed of the boat and the direction/speed of the currents.  There is no readily available table to tell you these things.  The amount of bow in you fishing line also depends on same.   

 

If the amount of bow in your cable causes sleepless nights then next time you're trolling in 100 ft of water, let out 100 ft of cable.  Then let out 105, then let out 110.  (make sure you're over sand bottom)  When you see you rigg'r" bounce" you'll know your touching bottom and the amount over 100 ft is what you're losing to blowback.  You can also watch your line counter.

 

Some guys fishing for Lakers will let out enough cable to bounce their rigg'r then crank it up a couple feet.  That way they know their lure is on the bottom.

 

The absolute best way to know where you ball is, is to adjust your transducer so you can see the ball on the screen.  If you have a multi-frequency transducer, sometimes one freq will show it while the other won't.

 

Tom B.

(LongLine)

 

Make sure you're over  a sandy bottom when you try the above.  I don't want you to snag up your rigg'r.

[shinintimes]

 Salmon WILL leave there preferred temps to feed so with that being said ... I think the main reason you haven't gotten the response you hoped for is the answer isn't short and sweet its a mystery. you use all the tools [ fishhawk fishfinder ect ] to figure out and we all have our own method for doing that ..... good luck

[Don Supon]

To attempt to see your downrigger ball on the FF, angle the transducer to aim a little further back, behind the boat instead of straight down. That will throw off the accuracy of the depth on the FF, but if you can see the actual ball tracking you will see it's relationship to any hooks on the screen and be able to adjust the ball accordingly. Dual frequencies on the FF may give a better "see" in one frequency, as has been mentioned.

Hope this helps you- worked for me.

[Sk8man]

As Shinintimes put it the answers to your questions aren't "short and sweet" or simple for that matter.  Aside from the very good things that have already been mentioned it should be understood that the so-called "ideal " temperatures given for a species are not to be taken as fundamental absolutes.  Most fish will go out of their preferred temperature ranges for a variety of reasons. They are at best indicators of possible places in the water column where fish may be found. Baitfish also have preferred ranges of temperature and many times in the summer the range intersects the bottom which is why you often see them hanging there and many times with fish nearby and sometimes out of their supposed temperature range...you notice I keep saying "range" and it is because most fish can tolerate a number of temperature values but they also may not readily be found in some others and they may be found at different temps at different times of the year. For example browns are quite temperature sensitive especially in the Spring and Fall and they may locate within the warmest temp range they can find at that time of the year (eg. near power plants or other sources of warmer water where the water may be a couple degrees higher than the surrounding water)). They are also known to be able to adapt to much warmer water (even 75 degree water temporarily) than either rainbows and steelhead or especially lakers. During the summer months they are usually found hanging near bait and near drop-offs and just above bottom near active stream mouths and the temp at the bottom there may be quite a bit colder than the reported temp preference for them. Water temperature is an important variable in the trout and salmon life cycle but it is far from the only thing that places them at a given depth or place in the water column. Marking bait and fish in close proximity to it may be as important ( or perhaps even more so sometimes). Knowing the particular general habits of the target species may be more helpful than electronics. Consider trying out a heavier weight (e.g. 12 lb.) for your downriggers and perhaps check the adjustment of the angle of your transducer (if it is a transom located type (not a thru-hull), and perhaps play with it a bit to see if you can spot your downrigger balls in the water column. It is an important factor in the use of your fish finder to know where your lures are running. The suggested printed angle values for transducers are usually considered as the "optimal" placement as related to marking depth at speed but they often will tolerate some movement or adjustment and still track range and downriggers OK. If you can accurately mark your weights the "blowback" issues can be minimized regardless of the line counter readings of the reel or downrigger. Use the depth finder to make the adjustments when you can. There may be times (for example on turns and at higher than normal speeds when the weights will be outside the cone anyway.

[Xxx]

A couple of years ago we had the same thing going on with blow back, so we where in the trench we left a 100ft of cable and trolled at 2.3mph on the gps. towards Stoney Isl and we didn't bump bottom until we hit 75ft so that's 25ft of blow back, so we went out and send the ball down 120ft fish were at 95-105 and then we caught 3 kings back to back, so any thing close to 100ft we knew we needed to let out 125ft on the riggers and if 50ft we divided 25 in half which would be 12.5 so at 50ft we sent the riggers down one at 65 and the other at 60 and we caught fish, we have 12# pancake weights,  I didn't think that much blow back was normal because you hear of guys watching fish come in and hit their lure, there is no way my depth finder would show that, that far back. I just assumed I was doing something wrong but what, so I went to 12# torpedo weights, they are much better and I can see them on the finder, so that's what I'm using now. Well 2 years ago as I haven't been fishing since, but that's all going to change this weekend HOPEFULLY!!!! PAP. 

[JimB]

Excellent responses all.   I knew when I started this that there were no hard and fast answers.   I was just hoping for some inputs based on experience so I could start to eventually figure all

this out.

 

I realize that unless I spend all my free time on the water, it will be a long learning curve.   I'm just hoping to get to the point where if I get skunked, I can honestly say "they just weren't biting today"

instead of "I just spent 5 hours trolling, and really don't have a clue if I was doing it right, or wrong".

 

Thanks again all!  I have something to start from now.

 

Jim