What electronics do you consider "necessary" for Ontario trolling?

[Sicarii]

I am looking to buy a boat during the off season for use next year salmon/trout fishing in Ontario.  I am currently looking at Pacific Northwest style plate aluminum boats, maybe a Hewescraft, Wooldridge, North River, or Pro-Steelheader.  I really like this style and I am seriously considering going to the Portland Boat show and bringing something back. 

 

I am wanting something in the 18-22 foot range with offshore bracket. 

 

I do a lot of electronics work for my job so I think I would end up installing the electronics myself.  I am wondering what you guys consider necessary for a boat this size used for trolling on Ontario.

 

I am thinking so far: 

 

Fixed-Mount VHF w/ Antenna

Fishfinder/GPS Combo - midrange, thinking Lowrance HDS 5 or Raymarine Dragonfly?

Stereo install (I do audio for a living, so I've got this one figured out!)

 

Am I overlooking anything?  Do I necessarily need temperature probe/downrigger speed capabilities right away or can I add them later if I need them?  Is there any real reason to shell out for a higher end GPS/Fishfinder?  Is there a difference between GPS and "Chartplotting"? 

 

I'm not sure I need or will be able to afford any kind of autopilot system...

 

Any suggestions are welcome.

[bandrus1]

I think a probe system is as important than a fish finder

[Sicarii]

I think a probe system is as important than a fish finder

 

I don't know too much about the probes, is this an add-on for a current fish finder or are they only stand-alone units?

[K Gonefishin]

Go big on the electronics, 8 or 10 inch if you will be only running 1 unit, running a 5 inch unit in split screen mode is like looking at a screen for each sonar/GPS something smaller than the modern day smartphone it's riduculously small when ran like that. I would get two 7's if you don't want to spend the big bucks on HDS-8 or HDStouch 9/12. Two elite 7's would suite you well or HDS 7's

 

I have two 8's and it's perfect. 

 

You will also need a probe. 

[John E Powell]

I think the first thing to consider when working with a clean slate is to decide whether or not to go with a network backbone (either NMEA 2000 and/or a mfg proprietary network). There are a lot of advantages to doing so. Namely, the electronics can provide data to each other. For instance, your gps can provide position data to your VHF in the event of an emergency when the distress button is pressed allowing search and rescue personnel to track and locate you more quickly. Network systems can be easily expanded or upgraded by purchasing modules that integrate with existing displays. Also, software patches and updates can be performed for all devices across the network (from the same manufacturer). Want to add an autopilot later on and have your GPS send position and steering data from a point you pick on your chartplotter to your autopilot? You'll need a network for that.

 

If you go the network route, start out with choosing your Chartplotter/GPS as everything else will plug into this. Make sure you get a unit that has some method of applying software updates and patches like a SD card port, or via a cable and laptop computer. Add in a black box fishfinder and the best Airmar transducer you can afford. Then add your VHF to the network for distress position data and you have the basis of a good system that can be expanded in the future with AutoPilot, Radar, or even a second display.

 

If you decide not to go the network backbone route and pick and choose separate items, most can still be connected to some degree, however, functionality is often limited and there will be no way to update items that do not have external ports or a method to connect to the internet. Make sure you get the VHF fed with position data if nothing more (or buy a VHF with a built in GPS).

 

On my boat, I have Garmin proprietary network and a NMEA 2000 network. I have two displays an 8" and a 12", radar, black box sonar, and VHF all connected. When there is a software update, I download the patch to a SD card and take it to the boat. I power up all the units, slip the card into either of the chartplotter sd ports and it asks me if I want to perform an update, I select yes and everything connected to my network (except the non-Garmin VHF) is automatically detected and updated. It takes about 2 minutes start to finish. I can see any combination of chartplotter, radar, radar overlayed on the chart, and sonar (single dual, split, a-scope, whatever) on either of the displays because they all share the same data over the network. This fall, I will be upgrading with a new autopilot that will be added to the network (pick a point or create a trolling route on the chartplotter and engage the pilot).

 

Lastly, outside of the network, I would consider a downspeed and temp probe mandatory electronics and part of any good electronics package.

 

Order of importance to me: VHF (for safety), Chartplotter/GPS, Downspeed and temp, Sonar/fishfinder, second display, Autopilot, Radar.

Edited July 30, 2013 by John E Powell

[Adk1]

I have been considering the same thing. I just ran out of $ this year outfitting the Islander. My $400 bill in new radial trailer tires trumped my new fishfinder..But hey, at least  I can make it to the water now in confidence! haha. I will be using the old Eagle fishfinderthat came with the boat and my handheld Garmin Rhino GPS system for speed and location. Was seriously looking into the Elite 7 base model chartplotter and FF but have heard of issues. It is still my top pick for the bang for the buck at the moment though. I will also be seriously looking at acquiring some form of temp system..to what  I do not know yet..Its comparing the # of trips I make each year out to fish..no clue. hope to hit May browns, one trip in July and one trip in August. that will be about it

[Sicarii]

Thanks for the information guys, it is very helpful for me. 

 

K Gonefishin - I have an ipad and was looking at some of the Raymarine stuff that can do screensharing and control using an iPad as a secondary display.  This might offset the price of a pricier raymarine chartplotter rather than buy 2 cheaper ones.  I don't know if Raymarine are the only ones doing this, I didn't see any Lowrance products with this capability.  Any thoughts on doing something like this?

 

John E Powell - Thanks for this post, it is really helpful.  When you say "black box fishfinder" do you mean that the fishfinder is a unit without a screen that then plugs into your chartplotter?  So this would be sort of a more piecemeal approach, screen + fishfinder unit + transducer rather than a "Fishfinder" unit which is typically all this bundled together?  This seems like a good way to go.  I like the idea of using NMEA for engine monitoring as well.  I am still curious about a probe system, would that connect as another network device?

 

Adk 1 - I have a handheld garmin that I use for hunting as well.  I guess that would basically still get me speed and location until I figure out something better.  Also I sure hope to be able to go out a lot... if I buy a boat for the kind of money I'm thinking then I plan to spend every spare minute on the thing!  I travel a lot for work, so large blocks of time are taken up.  But any extra days I have I'd like to be out... that's the plan anyway...

[bandrus1]

I don't know too much about the probes, is this an add-on for a current fish finder or are they only stand-alone units?

 

 

I would go with the stand alone fishhawk unit

[K Gonefishin]

I forgot to add info about networking, I have Lowrance units and they are networked. I have two tranducers 200 shoot thru and 50/200 skimmer also temp sensor, and a seperate 3000 puck and my HDS-8 has internal GPS so in case one goes down I am set to go. My HDS 8 unit feeds my LCX 38 which essentially acts as a slave unit to my HDS unit, however I do love the fact it has tons of built in maps to accompany the Navionics Platnium chip in the HDS. 

 

Networking is great because it's once source and allows you to share to multiple units. Lowrance now has wireless capabilities that will work with smartphones and tablets but IMO ipads have no business on a boat (i have one and it will never go with me) plus you can't see them with sunglasses on and they would require special cases to keep them safe they just aren't built for a fishing environment IMO etc. 

 

http://www.lowrance.com/en-US/Products/Wireless/ allows wireless control to tablets and smartphones 

[Don Supon]

IMO, a speed/temp probe is critical. A fishfinder to see the targets and depth and a probe to monitor lure speed and temp. You could get by with only that and a radio for emergencies.

[John E Powell]

John E Powell - Thanks for this post, it is really helpful.  When you say "black box fishfinder" do you mean that the fishfinder is a unit without a screen that then plugs into your chartplotter?  So this would be sort of a more piecemeal approach, screen + fishfinder unit + transducer rather than a "Fishfinder" unit which is typically all this bundled together?  This seems like a good way to go.  I like the idea of using NMEA for engine monitoring as well.  I am still curious about a probe system, would that connect as another network device?

Black Box - yes, there is no display with a black box, info is displayed on your chartplotter screen instead of a separate dedicated fishfinder display. If you buy a separate chartplotter and fishfinder, you can only display that devices data on that particular screen. There is nothing wrong with this approach, probably 90%+ of the boats fishing Lake Ontario are set up this way. But, if you go the black box route, you can send the sonar data to any network display. So, if later down the road you add a second display, you can display whatever data you want on either display. Some people set up two displays by the helm (even a third at the transom), others set up one at the helm and one at the transom. Going this route gives you flexibility. If you do go this route, I recommend you stick to one brand that has everything you might think you want down the road, (radar, autopilot, etc.) . Some brands with strong track records and complete product lineups include Raytheon, Garmin, and Furuno.

 

Engine monitoring is a bonus as well if compatible.

 

Traditional downspeed and temp probes are designed to be stand alone products. It may be possible for someone with extensive electronics capabilities to  integrate a fully digital device like the Fish Hawk X4 to a network, but it doesn't seem like it would make sense to do so as you just have two data points, speed and temp, it's not like a sonar or chartplotter image full of data.

Edited July 30, 2013 by John E Powell

[Sicarii]

OK I am going to look into the network approach.  It seems like a good setup, and since the boat I am looking at is going to be pretty bare bones I think the additional monitoring of engine functions should be nice since I won't have guages for a lot of things.

 

I see the fishhawk x4 needs a separate transducer.  Will it interfere with the transducer needed for the fishfinder or are they operating on different frequencies?

 

Also I have been looking at various types of sonar systems.  Lowrance for instance has "Structure Scan" and some kind of high definition downscan and some of the other manufacturers have something similar.  Is this stuff as nice as it looks and would you specifically make sure that the fishfinder you got had these features or are they more just toys and not necessary?

 

Thanks for all the help, I think this will get me started in the right direction.

[salmon_freak]

The fish hawk will not interfere with your other electronics it uses a different frequencies!!

[K Gonefishin]

For lake ontario skip the down and side scan you don't need it and it won't even transmit to the depths Get an 50/200 tranducer and you are good to go. If you have the option to buy a unit without a ducer buy a Airmar P66 aftermarket it's of higher quality

[John E Powell]

I believe the Fish Hawk operates at 70kHz. It is a fairly unique marine sonar frequency and won't pose an interference problem with common 50/83/120/200 kHz sonar transducer frequencies.

 

You may wish to consider, as part of your boat selection process, the ability to mount a high performance thru-hull transducer or in-hull transducer vs. a transom mount transducer for your main sonar unit. Generally speaking, a high speed thru-hull or in-hull transducer will perform better than a transom-mount transducer and would be more desirable from a performance aspect. For a fish hawk, transom mount will be fine. Hull design and trailer configuration will play a role in this. I would make sure to ask each boat manufacturer your considering about this. If they offer a thru-hull /in-hull location or "prep" for one, try to judge whether this is integral to the hull design or something they are willing to add on (I'd be very cautious of the latter).

 

If you go to the Airmar website and study the information there, you can learn a lot about the options available to you. Then, when you talk to the boat manufacturers about what they have to offer, you will be well informed and able to make a decision that best meets your needs and the capabilities of your chosen hulls. I learned from experience, the hard way, by not doing this. I ended up having to spend a fortune on a transducer that both worked well with my unique boat hull and met my performance expectations. I was lucky that this particular transducer was available for my Garmin black box as it is not available for every sonar manufacturer.

Edited July 30, 2013 by John E Powell

[YodaMage]

While I have a bunch of gear on my rig you can, if you know what you are doing, boat a ton of fish with nothing but a $400 fish finder. On top of that I consider still a $99 VHF radio a must have. 

 

So for the record, that is $500 in electronics. 

 

Adding a bigger and or better FF, a probe system, a GPS all are nice add-ones and upgrades, but not MUST HAVES to catch fish in the lake. Some of the best days we ever had were with a 18 foot starcraft with a tiller steered kicker and a old black and white paper graph. We also had homemade manual riggers back then. 

 

Don't let people tell you you need 5K in gear to catch fish. They are either clueless, lying or have an agenda. Start with what makes you comfortable and you'll enjoy the fish you catch more. I've put a 5 series B&W Humminbird or base Garmin graph with a couple of manual riggers on more then a few friends boats for under a grand and had them catching fish the next weekend. 

[John E Powell]

Don't let people tell you you need 5K in gear to catch fish. They are either clueless, lying or have an agenda. 

 

 

Clueless, really? Lying, really? Have an agenda, really?

 

Wow... what a rude post.

[K Gonefishin]

While I have a bunch of gear on my rig you can, if you know what you are doing, boat a ton of fish with nothing but a $400 fish finder. On top of that I consider still a $99 VHF radio a must have.

So for the record, that is $500 in electronics.

Adding a bigger and or better FF, a probe system, a GPS all are nice add-ones and upgrades, but not MUST HAVES to catch fish in the lake. Some of the best days we ever had were with a 18 foot starcraft with a tiller steered kicker and a old black and white paper graph. We also had homemade manual riggers back then.

Don't let people tell you you need 5K in gear to catch fish. They are either clueless, lying or have an agenda. Start with what makes you comfortable and you'll enjoy the fish you catch more. I've put a 5 series B&W Humminbird or base Garmin graph with a couple of manual riggers on more then a few friends boats for under a grand and had them catching fish the next weekend.

Using that line of thinking why even buy a boat at all might as well head to a pier head and cast for them, guys catch plenty of fish that way. Seeing that op is considering going to Portland Oregon which if you are geographically challenged its the other side of the country I woud think he's pretty serious about buying a sweet rig. Why shouldn't he rig it right.

I could walk or ride my bike to the grocery store but I would rather get in my big SUV with leather seats and touch screen GPS instead as well.

Fisherman like to rig their boats with all the right goodies and even go overboard on rods reels electronics etc because it makes life better and simpler on the lake and if used properly those fancy tools do help you catch more fish.

Btw, you need 15k in gear to catch fish

Edited July 30, 2013 by K Gonefishin

[King Slammin]

I believe the Fish Hawk operates at 70kHz. It is a fairly unique marine sonar frequency and won't pose an interference problem with common 50/83/120/200 kHz sonar transducer frequencies.

You may wish to consider, as part of your boat selection process, the ability to mount a high performance thru-hull transducer or in-hull transducer vs. a transom mount transducer for your main sonar unit. Generally speaking, a high speed thru-hull or in-hull transducer will perform better than a transom-mount transducer and would be more desirable from a performance aspect. For a fish hawk, transom mount will be fine. Hull design and trailer configuration will play a role in this. I would make sure to ask each boat manufacturer your considering about this. If they offer a thru-hull /in-hull location or "prep" for one, try to judge whether this is integral to the hull design or something they are willing to add on (I'd be very cautious of the latter).

If you go to the Airmar website and study the information there, you can learn a lot about the options available to you. Then, when you talk to the boat manufacturers about what they have to offer, you will be well informed and able to make a decision that best meets your needs and the capabilities of your chosen hulls. I learned from experience, the hard way, by not doing this. I ended up having to spend a fortune on a transducer that both worked well with my unique boat hull and met my performance expectations. I was lucky that this particular transducer was available for my Garmin black box as it is not available for every sonar manufacturer.

Well said. I will be upgrading from a transom mount ducer to a thru hull next yr. On calm days the transom mount is great but a little turbulence and chop, is frustrating. I LOVE my fish hawk x-4 unit. It's the most important mid summer tool for lake o fishing. If u find the temp and fish your lures in it, above it and below it, u will get bit. It keeps u from fishing below the fish which is such a common mistake. I like my lowrance hds 7 but I'm sure hummingbird, ray marine and garmin make similar units.

[Sicarii]

As far as Thru-Hull goes, I will be sure and ask about having that pre-rigged or available.  A couple of the models I am looking at have an offshore bracket with extra displacement and the bottom of the hull extends under the bracket.  I think they are just hollow inside and have a little hatch hole at the top.  Maybe I could put a thru-hull transducer through here?  If not I would imagine it would have to be pre rigged because I am not going to want to take up the flooring to get inside.  I'll take a look at the Airmar website and see if it has some mounting diagrams.

 

As far as going to Portland, I might be crazy, but I have been out there and to Seattle for work and I saw a few of these boats.  I really think they are cool for fishing and it doesn't seem like anyone makes a similar boat around here although I have no idea why not.  SmokerCraft has a similar line called American Angler, but they are a bit too pricy for me.  One of the marinas out there said they could get a boat as far as Indiana for an $1800 fee, so maybe that is an option as well.  I think that is a bit high myself, but it would save a long trip.  All the dealers I talked to up there said to come out to the Portland Boat show though, I guess it is pretty massive and the good deals are there...

[YodaMage]

Using that line of thinking why even buy a boat at all might as well head to a pier head and cast for them, guys catch plenty of fish that way. Seeing that op is considering going to Portland Oregon which if you are geographically challenged its the other side of the country I woud think he's pretty serious about buying a sweet rig. Why shouldn't he rig it right.

I could walk or ride my bike to the grocery store but I would rather get in my big SUV with leather seats and touch screen GPS instead as well.

Fisherman like to rig their boats with all the right goodies and even go overboard on rods reels electronics etc because it makes life better and simpler on the lake and if used properly those fancy tools do help you catch more fish.

Btw, you need 15k in gear to catch fish

 

 

So with that logic, buying more expensive golf clubs actually makes you a better golfer.

 

I'm a guy who likes to encourage people to try fishing and to get into the hobby, as a higher head count only helps the whole. I'm against this mind set that you need to buy your way in or that for some reason trolling//big lake fishing is an exclusive country club for those with the expendable income to drop tens of thousands in. Did I say that options aren't nice to have? No, the OP asked what is:

"necessary"

 

which is not defined as what might be nice or convenient. Since guess guys don't catch fish in 16 foot lund with a graph and two dipsy rods without any electronics then you are right. Or maybe those guys aren't fishermen... 

[Sicarii]

YodaMage - I don't mind the suggestion to go cheaper.  I do understand the golf club analogy of course and it is true of any hobby.  I do feel like there is a certain amount of equipment you must have for Ontario, my friend has a little 14 foot open boat with a 10 horse on it, and we have gone out on really flat days.  But I really don't think this is enough to get into the game as it were...

 

I appreciate all the opinions, and I can sift through the information/take advice with a grain of salt and all that.  I'd rather hear someone's opinion, even if it isn't the "prevailing" opinion so thanks for offering it up.

[YodaMage]

I see you are out of Braddock. My old man docked in there at the marina on the east side for years. Someone told me the CG pulled the channel markers out of there and they stopped dredging it, is that true? How much water is in there now? I remember that even with a 24' we had to surf in past the point some days to try to keep the lower unit from grounding. 

[Sicarii]

Well i listed Braddock because that's where I most often go out... with my kayak...

 

I don't know the depth situation there but the weeds are pretty close to the surface.  I see a decent amount of boats going in and out, it looks like there are markers at the far end of the bay from the marina.  The bay itself is not that deep, I have paddled out there and in a lot of places you can just get out and it is chest deep.

 

I do notice many of the docks are in pretty rough shape and it seems like it is mostly vacant but that is from an outsider's perspective and I certainly don't want to disrespect anyone who keeps their boat there.

[K Gonefishin]

You can buy a hewscraft in Michigan and crestliner just came out with a model that is modeled after the Pacific Northwest boats, however the build quality wont be there.

Shoot thru transducers don't typically work well or at all on tin boats FYI