Is it true?

[GAMBLER]

I heard from a buddy today that we will only get 50% of the kings we are supposed to get this year? The egg take was down (old news) and then a lot of the eggs did not make it to the yoke stage (new news)? Anyone else have any info on this?

[Yankee Troller]

Here is an e-mail I received:

Since our stakeholders meeting last December, we have experienced some

additional mortality of chinook salmon at the Salmon River Fish Hatchery.

We now anticipate about 850,000 fish will be available for stocking in

spring 2008 which is about 15% less than our projection (this wasnt normal stocking numbers due to the lack of eggs). We expect to

allocate the fish in approximately the same ratio that we had discussed

earlier.

The additional mortality occurred between the eyed egg stage (called eye up by biologist) and hatch,

which is another indication that last fall's warmer temperatures and

subsequent stress simply left the fish in relatively poor condition.

Ontario also experienced additional mortality in their chinook as well.

Fortunately, the fish are now doing very well, and barring any unforseen

diseases, we should be in good shape through the spring. We will provide

specific details for each stocking when we get closer to the stocking date.

OK, so here is what I know...The Salmon river is going to get 100% of what they always get. The rest of the salmon will be pro-rated to each of the other stocking locations. The Genesee Charter Boat Association, the organization that puts on the pen rearing in Rochester, has decided to raise the entire allotment of Kings in the pens this year. Usually there is a split between DEC regular stocking and pen rearing.

These meeting are help the first Tuesday of each month at the Irondequoit Fish and Game club. Anyone can join (you dont have to be a captain).

[GAMBLER]

I'm glad it is only 15% missing. It could have been a lot worse. Does the DEC plan on stocking more of the other species to make up for the loss?

[chinook]

The Salmon River getting 100% or their normal allotment? Doesn't surprise me. Sounds like the mid 90's again. Obviously what happened is a travesty, not only with the lack of eggs collected but now news that some of those that were taken were in poor condition. My only question is why wouldn't there be shared sacrifice for use of a better term, across the entire southern shoreline? I know that the Altmar hatchery is located on the Salmon, and hopefully this would only be a 1 year setback. But there are other major rivers that will see a significant reduction in this springs allotment of kings. The Oak, Genne, and Eighteen mile just to name a few. I do know it was mentioned since LOTSA helped in the late egg collection, that Eighteen mile wouldn't be hit as hard however. Given these numbers by the DEC does any one know the app. stocking numbers whether it be direct stock or pen reared for each location? As far as other species being added to make up for the short fall, I wouldn't count on it. Hopefully I'm wrong.

[Yankee Troller]

I'm glad it is only 15% missing. It could have been a lot worse. Does the DEC plan on stocking more of the other species to make up for the loss?

You got it all wrong or I may have wrote it wrong Gambler........that was 15% lower than the shortage they already predicted. So, say if they predicted us to get 65% of our normal stocking becasue of the egg shortage......now we are getting 50%.

To answer your other question about stocking more of other species and that answer is no. I asked that question. On another BAD note the coho stocking program will fare worse than the chinook program due to a worse collection and even worse survival rate.

[Yankee Troller]

Also, this problem was seen across the great lakes with collection and survival rate. Runs were late everywhere! They wont bring in eggs from other lakes or the West becasue of the worry about bringing in other diseases like VHS. The state of the lake is a month away and if you can make it there will be this info and a lot more, and you can answer questions.

[Tim Bromund]

The salmon river gets it's full stocking number because it is the primary brood stock river for the hatchery. From what I understand, not so much because we (LOTSA) helped with the egg take, but because of the significant numbers of eggs taken there, 18 mile creek and the black river were designated as backup brood stock streams and were supposed t obe 60% of their normal stocking and the remaining tribs were to get 47% of their normal stocks. Other than the SR, those percentages will be decreased accordingly accross the board.

I believe we are planning on putting all of the 18 mile fish in the pens this year. We have 4 pens so we are going to skip the 3500 steelhead we normally pen rear (they'll get direct stocked) and get as close to the 4 pen capacity (100,000 kings) as we can in our 4 pens.

The DEC took extra coho eggs to try and make up the king shortfall, but unfortunately their hatch was far worse than the kings this year, they only got like 15% eye up on the coho eggs and just barely scraped up enough coho to fill their normal stocking numbers.

Tim

[Fish Junkie]

The Genesee Charter Boat Association, the organization that puts on the pen rearing in Rochester, has decided to raise the entire allotment of Kings in the pens this year. Usually there is a split between DEC regular stocking and pen rearing.

I am by no means an expert on the raising of fish, but why put all your eggs into one basket? What if something were to go wrong and the whole pen/s got wiped out? It's like putting your life savings into a single companies stock. Too risky in my opinion.

[Legacy]

fish junkie

pen reared fish are given a chance to grow bigger alowing them to have a lower mortality rate than direct stocked fish. most importantly the are allowed to smolt. which means they are trick into believing they were born in that tributary and someday they will also return there to spawn. every year stocking locations recieve a "certain amount" of fish for pen rearing and each location is different. given the choice between direct stocking and pen rearing, i would assume that we would all choose to pen rear because its just a superior way to stock. i would say its not a risk "putting all of your fish in the same basket" but instead i would say we are doing the best we can with the fish we have.

[Yankee Troller]

The Genesee Charter Boat Association, the organization that puts on the pen rearing in Rochester, has decided to raise the entire allotment of Kings in the pens this year. Usually there is a split between DEC regular stocking and pen rearing.

I am by no means an expert on the raising of fish, but why put all your eggs into one basket? What if something were to go wrong and the whole pen/s got wiped out? It's like putting your life savings into a single companies stock. Too risky in my opinion.

Great point Steve, and this was the concern on teh DEC too, but the track record that we have had is the best on the lake per the DEC biologist. We feel we want to make sure our salmon have the best start and survial rate this year with the lack of fish available.

[Fish Junkie]

I understand the success of the pen rearing and the eagerness to do so. My point is uncontrolled enviromental factors while raising the fish in the pens. What if Kodak accidentally leaked something up river, a gasoline tanker crashed on Rt. 18 and its contents ended up into the sandy creek watershed, for some unknown reason the water temps fluctuate drastically while raising the fish etc. etc. yes these are unlikely events, however there is outside chance uncontrolable events such as these could occur. If they did your putting ALL you future fish at risk. By dividing up the hatchery stock, some pen, some lake, you are helping to guarantee at least some of the fish stock could avoid such an event.

[L&M]

Up date from the DEC

In a message dated 2/14/2008 2:42:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes:

Since our stakeholders meeting last December, we have experienced some additional mortality of chinook salmon at the Salmon River Fish Hatchery. We now anticipate about 850,000 fish will be available for stocking in spring 2008 which is about 15% less than our projection. We expect to allocate the fish in approximately the same ratio that we had discussed earlier.

The additional mortality occurred between the eyed egg stage and hatch, which is another indication that last fall's warmer temperatures and subsequent stress simply left the fish in relatively poor condition. Ontario also experienced additional mortality in their chinook as well.

Fortunately, the fish are now doing very well, and barring any unforseen diseases, we should be in good shape through the spring. We will provide specific details for each stocking when we get closer to the stocking date.

Bill

[L&M]

Sorry Yankee: You already had it above.

[Fishtails]

So, am If correct that we will feel this decrease in fish the most in 2010 and 2011? What do you think the chances are that the DEC will change the daily limit those years down to 2 fish per day instead of 3 ? If we banded together as a group and practiced better C&R methods during this period, I'd think the impact will be felt far less.

I personally would like to see the daily limit reduced.

[chinook]

in all honesty, i don't think the impact overall will be all that significant. Yes it is disappointing that this happened. But hopefully it will be a one year occurrence. Obviously it is going to effect the fishery a few years down the road, but to suggest the the DEC lower limits over it is just not going to happen. My point is that last we knew that some natural reproduction does occur mainly on the eastern basin. So what does occur will hopefully somewhat off set this loss. Again, if we are talking more than 1 year that this happens then the fishery would be greatly impacted IMO. This is my contention, knowing natural reproduction occurs mainly in the Salmon, even though it is the primary brood stock, I feel others ( rivers) should be the recipient of a certain percentage from them( the salmon river) as well.

[Fishtails]

Sorry, didn't realize I suggested they should or would, just if they "may" consider it and I'd be all for it if they did. The thought of keeping a few less....what a travesty :shock: . I realize it's unlikely due to the chartering business and the fact that it's a stocked fishery. Just asked, that's all.

[GAMBLER]

For all of you guys that make fun of lake trout fisherman, you might want to start learning . The way things are going, this could happen again.

[Legacy]

[Fishtails]

Maybe the silver lining will be bigger fish due to the decreased competition for the food? 40 + pound kings again ??? That would be cool

[chinook]

Fishtails-Rod, by all means I didn't mean to offend you by my last post. Rereading it, I can see where you might take exception to it. That was never my intent. In all honesty, I was in a hurry to get out the door , for I'm on the board of directors for our local little league and signups was starting in less than twenty minutes, and I'm in charge of registrations. Please accept my apologizes if you were offended-

[Fishtails]

Thanks Chinook....I'm Not offended in the slightest. I always respect and appreciate your opinions. Sometimes posts read differently than intended....happens to me more than I'd like to admit

[jason]

us trollers are not really going to get hurt by the shortage of kings. we have plenty of options for trolling for fish. who is going to be hurt though are the river ppl because they only can fish for whats running.

[Yankee Troller]

So, Gambler........Can I get a Laker Lesson? And Runnin Rebel........Can I get a BT Lesson?

[reel drag]

I don't think the reduced number of Kings will hurt us in the long run. I know alot of locals who fish the lake and for the most part, the average troller does not keep his limit of fish no matter the species. Sure the charter guys have clients who do take there limits, but that's what these clients pay for. No problem there, there's enough fish out there for us all to enjoy. I also think that the days of 40lb kings are gone as is the case in Lake Michigan. The forage base could definitely use the break. Let's just see what happens. Yankee, if you want to catch some Browns, tag along with REEL DRAG and COYOTE UGLY. We had an awsome year in 07 on big Brownies. Jerry had the pleasure of following behind us a few times while we were slamming them. (JUST KIDDING JERRY!!) As another poster has said, there are other fish that can be targeted, to make up for the loss of the Kings. As far as fish returning to the streams, there will still be plenty for the masses to rip, drag, snag, line or whatever other method these clowns use to "CATCH" fish. Just my 2 cents worth.

[Fishtails]

RD.....you ever see the cleaning station in Oswego on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon ?????

With all due respect, 65% fewer fish (as I understand it) will be felt plenty. Less by those of us with the ability to go deep for steel & Coho, or switch over to browns or even...OMG.....LAKERS :shock: Many of us will target other fish species more than we have in the past. Those fisheries will certainly feel the effects of the heavier pressure.

Correct me if I'm wrong ( and I know someone will ), but unless I learned nothing in math class, for every 100 fish stocked last year, there will be 45 (give or take) this year. That's just the way it is. It could have been much worse.

As to size, When alewife numbers are up, the average size of the salmon goes up, when baitfish numbers are down, the size of the salmon goes down. Other factors play into this also. I guess we'll see in a few years how it all plays out. Maybe the natural reproduction numbers will be way up? That would be a pleasant suprise !!

C'mon spring !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!