Otisco Lake a Put/Grow/Take Fisheries

[CaptainEyes]

 

Many individuals have been posting there fishing success on Otisco Lake which of course has spawned (no pun intended) healthy discussions such as catch & release and  in my case the natural reproduction of the lakes walleyes.  I decided if for no other reason than my own satisfaction to put the DEC on record as to the status of the lake and their view of a put & take fisheries and natural reproduction. I reached out to NYSDEC Fish & Wildlife Technician Ian Blackburn with a few questions below and you can view his answers in red.  (Note: I did not inquire about the Nor lunge as they are a true definition of put&take sense they cannot reproduce)

 

 

 

There are many discussions on line as to the fishery status of the lake and wondered where I can find the survey results? The electrofishing survey we conduct each fall is designed specifically to assess the survival of young of the year walleye that were stocked in the lake the preceding spring.  We will be taking a look at the data from this survey over the winter and generally will not issue a report on the survey, instead using the information internally as one of our several tools to monitor the fishery in Otisco.  The data, however, will be included in our statewide fisheries database, and we will occasionally provide highlights and significant findings on our web page for the lake. Anecdotally we did catch good numbers of this year's stocked fish below the causeway, and for the first time in years caught several of the 2013 fish in the main lake as well - indicating really good survival of this year class - be on the look out for them in 3-4 years...... Also a couple of burning questions that have been popping up without solid answers.

 

1) Does the DEC look at Otisco Lake as a "put and take" walleye fishery?

 

Otisco is currently managed as a put/grow/take fishery for walleye due to the lack of their natural reproduction in the lake.

 

2) If yes than why only stock 44,000 as opposed to millions in lakes of similar size?

 

We are currently stocking 50 day old fingerling walleye in Otisco, hence the smaller total numbers of fish compared to a lake like Oneida, which receives millions of 1-3 day old fry (much much smaller fish).  The number we stock is derived from a standard # of fish per acre of water based on average carrying capacities of our waterbodies and other factors such as the size of the fish being stocked.

 

3) Is there natural reproduction of the walleye that are running up the streams to spawn?

 

While the walleyes do run the streams along Otisco to spawn, the survival of newly hatched fry in the lake is minimal to none.  For the past couple years we have marked the walleye we stock with OTC (Oxytetracycline), which can be seen in their otoliths (inner ear bones) in the laboratory under a scope, and I am not aware of any young of the year fish we've caught in our surveys that were not marked (they were all hatchery fish).

 

 

4) Some feel that the alewives have a negative effect on natural reproduction yet many who have fished the lake for 20-30 years state the number of alewives have decreased and with the introduction of the tiger musky and the explosion of small and large mouth bass makes sense.  So what is your take?

 

While the alewives may appear to be down compared to what you've observed in the past (we have not conducted forage surveys to assess this so can't make assumptions about how many are out there), it is still likely that the presence of alewives along with good numbers of white perch severelylimits any successful walleye reproduction in Otisco.  Studies have been conducted documenting the detrimental effects of alewife on walleye fry - it's not just a hunch some folks have.  We see the same thing in Jamesville Reservoir as well - great spawning stream/habitat there with Butternut Creek, yet no observable natural walleye reproduction.

 

As a side note I had asked the put&take question to a different DEC individual in person and received a slightly different version however, this information is valuable and like many other fellow anglers I  will continue to keep legal walleye for the dinner table and my first 45" Nor lunge will go on the wall!  

 

[justtracytrolling]

Thanks Brent!!!

Tim and I were paraphrasing and I was gonna get an email out but you saved me the effort. I am pleased that we as sportsman took the time to find out if we needed to worry about releasing "breeders" or if its put and take. Opinions vary of course but I did a lot of research and was quite sure that keeping my legal limits wouldn't hurt future generations...now im certain that if we let the fish mature before we harvest we cant go wrong as long as the lake is stocked. Im putting the fish under 23 or so back.

justin

[CaptainEyes]

Agreed, and as long as we keep diaries for the DEC they can better adjust their stocking efforts to keep pace with the fishing pressure...

[justtracytrolling]

Exactly...fishermen working together with DEC.  If I came off defensive it was only because my intentions are good, I follow the rules, work hard at my fishing, try to help others, and thought I was doing the right thing.  

justin

[rnsurfnturf]

outstanding post Brent!... Thanks for following up with yet even more confirmation....I had sent them an email this am as a matter of fact to ask about differentiation between a stocked and wild and if there was a way to tell the difference.

 

2 way information exchange. More data IS better!

 

 

Tim

[CaptainEyes]

Justin,

your fine, there never was any animosity on my end as I am learning this lake and am the type of person who needs to hear it from the horses mouth.  Part of my education is talking to as many locals that fish the lake as possible(which may be a bad/good thing) and it is mind bogling the opinions and how they vary on each subject so I am a little apprehensive when it comes to opinions on Otisco lake plus I did ask a biologist though in passing if it was a put and take lake he said no but again that was in passing so I took it to heart.

[CaptainEyes]

outstanding post Brent!... Thanks for following up with yet even more confirmation....I had sent them an email this am as a matter of fact to ask about differentiation between a stocked and wild and if there was a way to tell the difference.

 

2 way information exchange. More data IS better!

 

 

Tim

Thanks Tim, I guess you have to have a microscope lol. 

[Big Dave]

Have always heard that the alewives make the walleyes grow .  But the lack of vitiman b hurts the hatching of the walleye eggs.   And the alewives are comming ashore to spawn just as the poor walleye eggs should be hatching out, making the fry prime alewive food.

[justtracytrolling]

I believed the biologist you talked to in passing after you told me, but all the research I had done had said the opposite.  I think Ian is sharp and I liked what I heard.  Im not a hear say guy either.  I want facts, pictures, and proof...now we know! 

justin

[Xxx]

All this information is absolutely wonderful, that so many folks take an interest in the lake and it's ability to keep producing some outstanding walleye catches. With all this info I read about the 50 day fingerling being stocked at the numbers of 44000 what concerns me is how long does it take to grow to the legal lengths to be harvested? do they grow several inches like they do in Erie. I also read where they tried a pen rearing project but it failed due to starvation, if they can be successful with the salmon why can't that be a possibility for Otisco, I realize it takes a lot to do this and to feed these fish, I certainly can't put names down to try this but I think there would be enough people willing to donate there time to make this a successful Idea, I for one would be willing to help with such an idea. That way you would be releasing 6-8 inch fish instead of inch and a half fish, perfect for the browns, tigers smallies and what ever other predator fish swims in the lake. I might be all wet with this idea but it sure works with the kings in lake Ontario. What are your thoughts ? Of course if they grow like weeds then there is no need for any of this.

[CaptainEyes]

Good questions PAP.   I do know the reason they release the walley at such a young age is because when they switch the frey over to pelitized food they have a high mortality rate so instead they take their chances with releasing them.  I think there is an age chart in the fishing guide lines I could wrong but know I saw one somewhere.  I believe off the top of my head a 22" walleye is 6yrs old.

[rnsurfnturf]

Heres another one to think about....there was alot of bass tournaments all summer with weigh ins on the pond side of the causeway. Those fish are also released there which means more bass capable eating more of the stocked wallehe

[justtracytrolling]

I believe and don't quote me but Ian said the fingerlings are doing very well and growing fast...The cloudy, murky pond side does offer excellent cover for walleye fingerlings

Justin

[Sk8man]

Captain Eyes I think the age info you are thinking about is the age of largemouth and smallmouth bass in that chart....I believe the other species are only listed for length and weight.

[CaptainEyes]

Sk8man yea your right. I do have an age chart somewhere. But off the top of my head 6yrs old for a 22" walleye stuck in my head because I caught one last July with eggs still in her and sent email to the DEC and that's how old they said the fish was.

[Sk8man]

Yes that sounds right.

[justtracytrolling]

Yeah i have a chart somewhere i printed out and that sounds right. I know the ones im targeting are 9+ years old and next year should give up some 10 pounders....last year the biggest common size was 26 or so this year there is even more at 25-26 and some 27-28. I have put enough time in and keep track of what i get and im saying that the lake is outstanding.

Justin

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[Sk8man]

Justin there is no doubt about it being outstanding walleye fishing. Many walleye fishermen on the smaller (or less well established) lakes like Honeoye etc. would give anything to get them that big other than the occasional one (but different forage base,,,,, no alewives.....but thankfully because no trout or tigers either to help keep them in check  etc.).

[justtracytrolling]

Its a very complicated balance and I hear and sometimes say negative things about the DEC, but what they have accomplished at Otisco is truly a remarkable success. Lets not forget the huge tiger muskies, or the 25 pound 5 fish bags of bass that won a few tournaments. Maybe they just got lucky, but I think its quality management and my hats off to the individuals responsible. I will say its not an easy place to catch a fish, but when you learn to they are big.

Justin

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[CaptainEyes]

Your right Justin Otisco, is a great success and fishery and it is a little bit of both good effort on the DEC and luck.  They even admitt that for whatever reason the tigers really took hold in Otisco while in other lakes they had stocked they did not have the same success.

 

 One thing I do want to comment on is that I know its hard to believe Justin when he say's  Otisco is a hard lake and down right (at times) impossible to catch fish on especially when you are able to view the pictures of his catches(daily..lol) but he puts many many many hours out there to pull it off.  I do not troll (yet) like he does so I personally put in about two hours of straight casting for every walleye I catch. The Tigers on the other hand are a mixed bag I have been out there and caught one after another but normally your going to put in a hour or so (at least) of casting to catch one.  The bass on the other hand can be real fun especially in the spring and fall.

 

 I dont want to detour any one from fishing Otisco but dont be surprised if after a day of fishing your left (with no fish)  scratching your head wondering how does he do it.  

[Ronald Allen Sellers]

My wife and I have a camper on Otsico and fished a lot last year. We saw Justins boat almost every weekend. We would troll worm harnesses for a couple of hours. The big pontoon was always out before us and still going strong after we had enough. I remember thinking damn that guy burns a lot of gas. Justin you deserve every fish you take. Its a shame some gluttons keep more than the limit, its the greedy ones that give the rest of us a bad rap. Its been said before but at Otisco you have to work for em'. That lake will never be short on walleye population.

[justtracytrolling]

Well it was slow out there tonight unless you want largemouth bass. We got 2 little eyes 20 n 22 and threw back a bass that belongs on somebodys wall along with a couple solid 4-5 pounders. Had a few misses and lost 1 decent eye.

Ronald,

Didnt know you were a seasonal camper at Otisco. Did we meet im horrible with names? Id be more than happy to take you out trolling, and show you how i do it. Ill warn you though you'll be busy... my boat doesnt do relaxation...we fish!

I post alot obviously, and really enjoy it. I'm also a bit more into it than most, but

I cant stress enough to post every trip out. Even if you get skunked we know what didnt work and it opens TWO WAY sharing of info. If i know someone is really trying and cant catch ill help more. Its hard to "give out" every detail that goes into catching walleye...fish should be earned as it makes them taste better! There are plenty of people that are members of this forum that ask questions and want help but never post about their trips. I can only assume everybody on here fishes some yet no posts. I wanna learn too, even if its what not to try. I find if you want something you better be willing to give it too. If you see Tracy n I at the campground stop by n shoot the breeze. Anyone who's ever met me knows ill talk hunting and fishing, especially around a campfire with a beer.

Justin

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[Ronald Allen Sellers]

Last year when the lake was real low we trolled the harnesses. We caught a lunker probably every 2-3 hours from june thru august. Some windy and cloudy days we could get a limit quick.This year all I could catch were browns although we didnt fish much cause I had to work on the house. Anyway Ill try to attach some pics later. I use braid with a 7 ft. 15lb mono leader and snap weights usually 1 oz. at 30 ft of line and troll at 1-1.5 mph. I remember seeing the pontoon "fly" by me when we were both trolling. BTW Justin there's always a cold beer or twenty in my fridge at the lake!

[justtracytrolling]

I had decent luck with harnesses last year also and went away from them early this year. Even last year tho using harnesses was never a guarantee and often took me time to find fish. Ive always wanted to guide, and because of that i had to find a way to catch them that worked everyday and in 2 hours or less. I figured if you can put a big walleye in the first hour or so that will keep most peoples attention. The reaction bite is a guarantee if used when the light is changing (morning or evening). The walleyes natural predatory instincts take over

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[Ronald Allen Sellers]

Yeah I was on to this (reation bite) one day, may before last. I got to the lake late and wanted to troll in front of the causway for a quick musky or brown I had a 5 horse kicker on my Grumman  cause I had the lower unit in a million peices at the time. Anyway I had the 5 at full throttle trying to get out to the main lake and my wife said why arent you trolling so I threw a silver and blue rattling rouge out at about 4 to 5 mph. Right before I got to the causeway bam a 7 pounder nailed that floater. Thing was so fat I knew that lure had just pissed it off, no way that fish was hungry. I was though!