Copper Rigging (1st Time)

[FleetTracker]

Fine Anglers of the LOU,

 

After my first successful year under my belt on Lake O out of Henderson, I've decided to build up 2 new copper set-ups to add to my arsenal.  I am kindly looking for all of your valuable feedback and guidance as I plan to start rigging these up.  I've already decided that both will be 500' copper set-ups and that they will provide me with the most versatility throughout the year.  I plan to mark them with heat shrink tubing every 100'.  I've already got a spool of 1000' of 45lb Blood Run Copper to do the job.  I've also got on order 2 of the new Daiwa Seagate SGTLW60H Levelwind reels and they should be in my hands by the end of this year (Daiwa has been prolonging their release month by month).  These are high speed 6.1:1 ratio reels with Ultimate Tournament Carbon drags and are made for the great lakes copper game.  For comparison, they have matching line capacity ratings as the Tekota 800's.  I've already bought 2 of the 8'6" Okuma Class Pro GLT Copper/Leadcore Trolling Rods too.  I'd like to rig 150yds of 50lb Yellow Power Pro backing on each reel... and here's where my question lies... What is the BEST way to terminate the copper line to the 50lb Power Pro backing?  And from the copper line to the 30lb Seaguar Fluorocarbon leader?  What knots are recommended, and can you point me to a good resource that explains the process clearly?  

I realize that many places offer pre-rigged copper set-ups, but what fun would that be?  And you usually don't get exactly what you want.  I prefer doing things on my own to save $ and gain the knowledge.  For reference, each set-up will be under $250 fully rigged.  Thanks in advance for your help and taking the time to shed your experience and knowledge on the subject!

 

Ideas I've had:

1- Use the SPRO heavy duty swivels? (small enough to fit through reel's line guide)

2- Direct knot (what kind) between the copper/power pro?

3- Something else?

 

Daiwa Seagate Levelwind Reel:

http://www.daiwa.com/reel/detail.aspx?id=693

 

Okuma Class Pro GLT Copper/Leadcore Rod: 

http://www.okumafishing.com/product/view/rods/salmon-steelhead/classic-pro-glt

 

SPRO heavy duty swivels:

http://www.spro.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=SHSB-ALL

 

45lb Blood Run Copper:

http://bloodruntackle.gostorego.com/salmon-fishing-line-downrigger-leader-wire-copper-trolling/45-lb-super-copper.html

 

50lb Yellow Power Pro Backing:

http://www.powerpro.com/publish/content/global_fish/en/us/power_pro_v2/products/powerpro_super_lines/yellow.html

 

30lb Seaguar Fluorocarbon Leader:

http://seaguar.com/new-products/2013/sts.html

Edited November 14, 2013 by FleetTracker

[salmon slapper]

i know a guy that i fish with for the Wilson invitational that has field tested this reel and he told me about it around late fall because i was thinking about buying 2 of them and he told me not to waste my money

Edited November 14, 2013 by salmon slapper

[Rich D]

Would like to know how you say these reels are not good copper reels, since they are not even out for use. Just curious.

[FleetTracker]

Salmon Slapper - the reels aren't even released by Daiwa yet... They told me mid-December a few weeks ago.  If you took the time to read my post, I clearly said I was building up two 500' set-ups.

Edited November 14, 2013 by FleetTracker

[Nemesis]

Fleet Tracker, the response from Rich D was directed at Salmon Slapper not you. He doesn't know what he is talking about unless he works for Diawa and has prototypes, which I bet he doesn't. As far as I know the reels aren't available yet. Many of us are also waiting for the reels to hit the market. Good luck with your set up.

[salmon slapper]

whatever i have a friend that told me other wise just thought i would pass some info along sorry and i am very knowledgeable when it comes to fishing so good luck with your set up 

[FleetTracker]

Fleet Tracker, the response from Rich D was directed at Salmon Slapper not you. He doesn't know what he is talking about unless he works for Diawa and has prototypes, which I bet he doesn't. As far as I know the reels aren't available yet. Many of us are also waiting for the reels to hit the market. Good luck with your set up.

 

Hi Nemesis - Yes, I realize that.  That's why I started off the sentence by referring to "Salmon Slapper".  He has since fully edited his post to reflect something entirely different than he initially posted... possibly why the dialogue looked confusing to you.

 

Daiwa has been working to address and incorporate all field test feedback and results... I wouldn't classify a prototype field test unit as crap until the company has the opportunity to address any design or functionality flaws in a public release of the product.

 

Guys - I would appreciate some feedback in the area of my inquiry.

[salmon slapper]

hey man i was just trying to help out i am a mate for a charter outta sodus pt i have been fishing for a long time i am a professional but not going to subscribe to Lou because no matter what u post whether it is a classified or just throwing info to help someone out people just like to jump on your subject that you don't know what your talking about but hey what do i know . well good luck on your set up bud

[finsntins]

fleettracker,i cant give you much as this was my first season using copper,but as far as tying from copper to leader and or backing i used the spro swivels and they worked fine for me,the only thing i didnt do this year that i will next year is either use hot glue or shrink tube over the copper at the swivel cause the copper tends to unravel after a few passes through the guides,also,this wasnt one of your questions,but i will put it out there anyway,is make sure you use heavy duty,quality metal pole holders,i didnt listen to the posts here and lost my first copper set up,dont be foolish like me!!!very expensive mistake

[FleetTracker]

All great points finsntins, Thanks!  What kind of knot was used on the copper side of the swivel?  Some variant of a haywire twist?  I was planning on using the shrink tube over all of my swivel and knot connections, and also using it to mark the copper at 100' intervals.

 

I think I've already addressed the rod holder issue.  I worked with Tony at Great Lakes Planers to develop this custom seat base pedestal copper chute rod holder with a light on the top (See pics).  It turned out pretty good and is very sturdy.  Now I can light up my spread when the sun goes down! 

 

 

[mudflat]

Fleet Tracker

 

You are on the right track, check out Fish Doctor's video tips: http://www.fishdoctorcharters.com/videos/video8W.html

 

Spro swivel at each end of the copper with a haywire twist knot, it will be difficult to get the copper through the swivel eye 2 times but it can be done.  Use a Palomar Knot for the Power Pro and your favorite knot

for the leader.

 

You can also use back to back haywire twist knots to splice the copper back together after your first fubar.

[Rich D]

Fleet,

Haywire twist with shrink tubing for the copper on both connections. Tie the Palomar to the backing first then do your twist, it is a good idea for super glue on the backing side. Palomar for the leader end also, another tip is to redo the haywire and backing knots once a year, before the season starts.

Slapper to come on here and stat the info you did and the way you did, did you not expect to get some type of responses you got? The new reels have not been finalized yet, so any issues that were seen during testing will be taken care of. No one is not calling you a professional, but when you deal with public forums, you need to have thick skin.

Capt Rich

[Sk8man]

I believe the CLEAR hot glue on the connection is better than the shrink wrap. If not put on too thick you can monitor things (condition of connection) through it and it holds up fine.

[capt ace]

Here's how we do it....

http://www.acecharters.com/article_copper_set_ups.html

[FleetTracker]

Thank you everyone, for taking the time to point me to all of these excellent resources. I now feel a lot more confident going into this then I did a few days ago.

Another prime example of how helpful the LOU can be.

[BAZOOKAJOE]

I use a spro swivel on all connections. Not sure why you want (2) 500 coppers.  Especially if you're gonna run them down the chute. I'd buy a set of  Otter boards and a mast.  Spool up a 350 and a 450.  Or 300 and 500.  Chute copper ina small boat is a disaster waiting to happen.  Been there...done that!

Edited November 15, 2013 by BAZOOKAJOE

[BAZOOKAJOE]

If you decide to run boards...tie in a 8 ft piece of 40-50 lbs big game (between copper and backing) to attach the release to.

[finsntins]

hey bazooka,i assume its not good to run braid through the release?

[rustyrat]

I use shower curtain rings and rubber bands right on the backing to attach to boards. I also run them off church boards from time to time. I hate to use more knots then necessary.

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Lake Ontario United mobile app

[BAZOOKAJOE]

hey bazooka,i assume its not good to run braid through the release?

 

I got a lot of false releases (especially when it was rough).  I use the big scottys.  They work sweet with the mono!

[BAZOOKAJOE]

I use shower curtain rings and rubber bands right on the backing to attach to boards. I also run them off church boards from time to time. I hate to use more knots then necessary.

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Lake Ontario United mobile app

 

I hear ya brotha!  But it works for me.  It's def wise to change that piece of mono every so often.  Last trip of this year i inspected the knots on the mono and they were getting weak.  I re-do it after deployment.  Wrap the copper around a cleat...re-tie and let back out.

[FleetTracker]

Hi Bazooka,

 

I have a mast already and want the option of running both coppers on the big boards if I wanted to, or on the TX-44 Church boards.  Or running just a single chute copper.  I'm building up two 500's so that when my buddy is up with his boat, he can use one also.

 

That said, is it not advised to run say 1 copper fully deployed with all 500' on one big board, and the other only partially deployed at ~350'?  Does it damage the copper line at the release point?  What's your thoughts there.

 

Thanks!

Edited November 15, 2013 by FleetTracker

[capt ace]

The only problem with running 350/500 copper out on a board is that the weight of the 150ft of copper line going out to the board from the boat will drag in the water and mess things up. If you run the 500 on the board and the 350 down the shoot, if the 500 goes you will have to clear the 350 fast or the 500 will end up running into it and making a mess.

[thefrenchman]

Hey there

i run mast and board

300 copper on one side with an other rod with 5 color core

500 copper on the other with a 10 color core

2 down rigger and 2 dipsy

like many others i use spro swivel and polimar knot

i use braid as backing

oh and i use 700 tekota for copper and core

and i use shower curtains rings and rubber band

for release i've got 3 kind of rubber band

depending on the pull i will change up to heavier gage band

alot less expensif then those release they sell

at the end of the day you reel in the the board and collect all those shower curtain clips

they cost like 1$ for 20 in dollard store

rubber band well i think its like 200 for 1$

 

thefrenchman

Edited November 17, 2013 by thefrenchman

[Sk8man]

In line with what the frenchman is saying I've been successfully using homemade releases (although I have on hand and have used most other commercial releases e.g. Offshores etc.). Here is an example that I use for multiple lines on my outriggers, off planer boards and even on inline boards on 50 lb.Spectrum braid. I use rubber bands in them if running top lines (lighter lines) and use without (full strength) if for heavier stuff. They are Dollar Store materials and probably cost about $.25 each plus the small shrink wrap on the ends. Never have a problem with them.