fly/spoon combo

[Nessmuk]

After having given second thought to Sk8man and me going out for a shakedown cruise in my 12'er I had a cuppa and was rereading Earl Holdren's  book excerpts in the Sanders guide.    I ran across a diagram showing a leader with a fly on a dropper about 8" ahead of a spoon and another with multiple flies ahead of the spoon.       I assume the idea is to sort of imitate a bug being pursued by forage fish?    I am wondering if anyone has fished this rig? Results?   Thoughts?

 

Mind the light bulbs!

 

Jack

[3feathers]

      Never tried spoons but found it worked great when trailing larger sticks baits behind a fly or streamer the rapalas in sizes 11 & 13 also larger rebels and thunder sticks in natural colors has worked pretty good just about any predator fish will attack it...Spoons should work too .Though i never personally tried them..

[fathobbit0074]

I run spoon behind flasher When days are tough Sometimes it saves the day

[Sk8man]

Earl's little pocket sized book was my "bible" for many years and I believe without doubt the best book ever written on Finger Lakes fishing. Another good book on Finger lakes fishing was written and edited by my good friend (now departed) and fishing buddy sports writer Scott Sampson ("Good Fishing in the Finger Lakes Region of Western New York"published by Sanders Fishing Guides 2003). Those flies ahead of the spoon serve basically the same "attractor" function as "teasers" or "twinkies" do with cutbait or"meat rigs" but they are primarily used for rainbows and landlocks on the Fingers. I have caught nice rainbows in June/July with them in the old days ahead of flutter spoons (Sutton's "Usually 44's and 22's) on both top lines with weight and leadcore. I found that placing them about 12 inches worked better because it didn't seem to interfere with the spoon action as much. I NEVER caught a fish on the fly itself.....only the spoon.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Sk8man

[Nessmuk]

Sk8man,   

 

You anticipated my next question!   I was wondering about the fly being taken but assumed that the spoon would be a bigger meal.   

 

Speaking of the Sutton 44s, I just got a Blade Runner 44 in the mail today.    The spoon itself looks very good though I wish it had rings and hooks like the Suttons. 

 

Guys,

 

I am aware of flashers and spin doctors and may try the spin doctor eventually.   I'm not real keen on lost of big stuff on the line ahead of the spoon but everyone seems to use them.    One fellow said green and white SDs are the way to go?

[Sk8man]

Jack - The trebles that came stock with the Sutton's sucked...they are easily bendable I changed over (replaced) hundreds to single1/0, 2/0 and3/0 single stainless steel triple X or 5x (hardened) Mustad Siwash Salmon hooks early on and still continue to do so with nearly all my spoons. Saved the solid rings on them and cut the trebles with wire cutters and tossed them in the trash inside boxes.  

 

Regarding the flashers or Spin Docs anything green, monkey puke, or Wonderbread will do the trick in the Fingers.....Lake O there are many additional ones that work.

[Nessmuk]

_Les,

 

_{I thought the Sutton hooks looked OK to my fly fishing mind but then I have caught good sized stream trout on size 24 hooks.   The Blade Runner treble hooks are Mustad and are a lot heavier than the Sutton.  Blade Runner also offers single hook.    Why the single hook rather than treble?    Do the eyes on the Siwash hooks close with pliers and stay closed?    How big are these lakers I'm gonna reel in???    This is beginning to sound like "The old Man and the Sea"..........}

 

_J

 

_PS

 

_{I just did some hook testing.  You are correct about the Sutton hooks being whimpy bendy!!!!    Looks like some stronger hooks are in order.}

Edited December 15, 2013 by freshwatermodels

[Sk8man]

  Yeah I guess we do really get into it don't we?   What I found a long time ago is that the original Sutton trebles will bend when a good sized fish clamps down on them (or maybe when trying to"horse" them a bit ) and I lost some fish because of it (hooks were bent when I reeled in). I changed over and it immediately solved the problem...very few fish lost over the years and nearly always a very solid hook up without physically setting the hook etc. I have had solid trebles taken off other lures too and I use them to tie my home made trolling flies. I prefer hardened singles on all spoons. The hardened trebles don't have the bending problem but I am convinced that when they are in the boney structure of the fishes mouth the individual hooks may work against each other leading to greater loss of fish. I know others may look at it differently but that is my take on it. The trebles on the trolling flies are often in the fishes throat and are usually being trolled slower so I think the problem is reduced in that instance. Another huge reason for using singles is that I release most of the trout I catch - especially big ones and the singles are much easier to do this with and they are much friendlier in the net with kings.

 

Yes the Siwash hooks will close and stay closed with pliers just make sure you close the curl as fully as possible so it isn't open much if at all to avoid it catcing on other lines etc.

Edited December 15, 2013 by Sk8man

[Nessmuk]

Given the name of your boat I think the real reason for single hooks is that you can have more lures out!     15 points means 15 rods and 15 lures which might mean more fish on the table!  Umbrella rigs?   Prey drive?      It is nice to not have much damage to the fish so we might give it a chance to grow and fight another day though.

 

What you say makes sense to me.    I've done very little fishing with treble hooks and single point flies seldom do much damage to a fish.  I used to crunch the barbs for easy removal.  I was looking at trolling a flatfish but when I see the hooks and how it is put together I wonder.

 

When is ice out?

[Sk8man]

You may have tapped into my unconscious Jack ......more hooks and more lures   but since the law changed only 5 per rod anyway now but....3 rods is a real bonus I can live with....

[Nessmuk]

I just looked at the regs, 15 lures!  with up to 45 points!   I guess it gets down to figuring out how to best set up the 5 lures on each of the 3 lines.   With two people fishing that ends up with a lot of lures in the water! That being said I'll be lucky to effectively fish just a few lures w/o a tangled up mess.

[Sk8man]

Jack....it is a total of 15 but in the old days you could legally run 15 lures for each rod (e.g. Seth Greens if single hooks used) and I used to have 62 lures in the water at the same time sometimes (e.g derbies)(my son fished with me) Four Seth greens each with 15 singles and two top lines or dipseys from the outriggers. It was when things were tough on Seneca took an average of 6-8 hrs per fish back then because of lamprey problem and insufficient stocking.

Edited December 15, 2013 by Sk8man

[Nessmuk]

62 lures....  that's a chunk of change in lures!     Was this w/o use of a sonar?

 

I'm planning on starting out flat lining with in-line planers after ice out.    When they go deeper I'll fish with a cheater on the stbd DR and maybe a dipsy to the port .    I have 30lb braid on the dipsy rod and wonder how that will effect running depth.    I'll be using a standard bait casting rod on the DR.

 

I have been toying with the idea of a SG rig but I have yet to find a precise description on how to handle it.    As a hand line with 1lb lead at the bottom I can visualize winding the rig on something similar to the copper wire wound on a chunk of wood removing droppers as they come up but this doesn't appeal to me.      I'm wondering what options there are.

 

All this stuff in the water at the same time gives me visions of tangled messes!

[Sk8man]

I've used all sorts of Seth Greens but for many years I have used the old tried and true 6 and 6 1/2 ft. solid glass boat rods  some with all rollers and some with just roller tips. I run Penn #309's with ss 7 strand wire on them from 30-60 lb test (the heavier wire for wide spaced rollers so the wire doesn't go over the edge of the roller tips that have with 30 lb mono and also 50 lb braid rig lines.  There are many different setups possible for all of it. When I first started out I used a big wheel like thing and rolled up all my leaders right onto it and although it had a primitive drag I mainly used it by hand. For the past 30 years or so I have used small pieces of styrofoam to roll up each leader separately and I keep spoons right on them and change as desired. I run a 2 pound. sinker suspended about 20 inches - about 2 ft or so from a large three-way swivel. I use both fluoro and mono leaders depending on circumstances usually about 12-18 ft. long (the shorter in cold weather). I use bead chains spaced about 12-24 ft apart on the rig lines and spring clips are at the end of each leader to fasten it to the bead chain. I keep extra sets of leaders all set to go int he boat so if anything happens I can instantly re rig without tying anything. I think there was a thread awhile here back that discussed Seth Green rigs in some detail.

 

Here is one of the Seth Green (Thermocline) rods to get an idea of it:

 

Here is a close up of the roller tip and guides:

Here are the (from left to right) Spring clips with beads to assist in cold weather in handlingin them (on end of leaders with ball bearing swivel at other end with lure), bead chains, three-way swivel:

Here is the Penn #309 with wire and mono with bead chains and note the Power handle on the reel VERY handy

Here are the fluoro leaders on styrofoam (without lures):

 

I can't draw for s..t but here is a basic set up if you can read it from the pic

Edited December 17, 2013 by Sk8man