Braid, Mono, or Flouro?

[justtracytrolling]

Just wondered what everybody uses walleye trolling and why. Ive been using 30lb powerpro, but im going to 20 seaguar braid to get deeper faster. I haven't used mono or flouro mainline because I cant get deep enough without adding clip weights when trolling deep divers. Plus I feel the shorter setbacks make running lines easier and fighting fish more enjoyable in addition to less slack. I have a lot more feel with braid also.

justin

[MeatHunter737]

Will a blood knot hold braid and floro together, or is a swivel necessary?

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[hermit]

Try a double uni, go with 7-8 wraps on the braid and 4-5 on mono/fluoro depending on diameter.  Haven't had a problem yet.

[justtracytrolling]

Ive been using a small barrel swivel for trolling because I never felt like I could re-tie a leader on the fly easily with a double uni, but Im gonna try this year as Im getting comfortable with it.  I use a double abright for casting setups, and that knot is really easy even when Im alone.

justin

[Xxx]

Justin this year I'm switching over to suffix 832 and I'm going with the 30# which is 8# test. Ronnie Franks a good friend of mine who does very well on Ontario with the species I mostly target said he tried it and was very impressed with it and is switching a lot of his rods over to that, of coarse it's one of the most expensive line out there, but that's par for the case. OH he did mention you want the advanced super line!!  You could drop down to 20# test that would be 6# dia. that would really get you down fast, I'm sticking with the 30#.

[justtracytrolling]

30lb 8lb diameter works well and I had zero complaints, but Im excited to try the seaguar 20lb 4lb diameter, as 4lb dia gets you the most depth.  

As an example:

the rapala deep taildancer 11 dives to about 29' with 200' setback on 10lb diameter line

                                                                       32' with 200' setback on 8lb diameter line or 29' with 130' setback

                                                                       36' with 200' setback on 4lb diameter line or 29' with 80' setback

Of course clip weights will do the same thing I just like the simplicity of not adding the weights unless I have to.  I know everybody who has caught eyes off the riggers on my boat loves the short setbacks fighting fish.  Ive caught eyes with close to 400' of line out and Ive caught them with less than 100' of line and the fight is much better with less line. 

justin

[Sluggo / NY]

Most of my big water level-winds are spooled with 30# Powerpro with a six foot leader of 15# Seaguar floro leader material connected with a quality ball-bearing swivel. I end it with a cross-lock snap. I tie all my harnesses 24" long so we can get the fish in netting range. Once in a while a dipsy gets put on the wrong rig.. makes it exciting with a big walleye stuck 15' behind the boat. I have a few outfits spooled with 20# Flea-flicker for summer flea season on Ontario. Fortunately we don't have a problem with them on Erie... yet. Good Fishing, Sluggo (Chris) 

[Roughrider IV]

Sorry, I've had trouble signing in for a while. I've used power pro 20lb test with 15 lb flouro leader on Quinte giants and had no problems. I like the no stretch factor with long leads off boards.

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[zackblain]

Why not just try a 10# braid if it's dive depths you're after? 

[justtracytrolling]

I use 10lb nanofil and powerpro on my spinning reels currently, and its suitable for big fish when im casting, but fast trolling I doubt it would handle the tigers. The braid has no stretch and at fast speeds hard strikes from 15-25 lb tiger muskies really tests tackle, plus Im a firm believer in heavier line than leader so you don't break mainline and 15lb leader works well. When I target tigers I like 80lb braid and 50lb leader so I can get the fish to the boat fresh enough to release safely. According to the "precision trolling" pro edition line diameters less than .008" have no gain in dive curve. In their studies .008" and .006" were essentially equivalent concerning lure depth. The Seaguar 20lb is .0073" so really the Seaguar 20lb is thinner than the fireline 10lb found in the dive curves.

justin

[zackblain]

That's interesting I figured it would have been a pretty linear relationship between line diameter/dive depth.

[justtracytrolling]

I agree but thats what Mark Romanack has printed. I hope I like Seaguar braid as much as I like their flourocarbon!

Justin

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[zackblain]

Seaguar is quality stuff, been using their blue label for leaders and love it.

[hermit]

Justin I'm curious how the Seaguar is working for you?  I'm looking to respool a rod and like the specs of the Kanzen, but it has mixed reviews.  Thinking of trying something new but I've also never had a problem with PowerPro.  Didn't like the Spiderwire braid I tried a few years back but don't remember which one it was.

[labsrus]

I used to use fireline on all my rods.  I have a few line counters loaded with Berkly XT that get used quite a bit

 

Recently I have spooled a few rods with power pro and it seems to work pretty good.

 

Problem with fireline is it gets light in color and not easy to tie knots with after a while.

 

I like the no stretch feature of the superlines

[labsrus]

I like seagar for my harness line

[Kevin J Legg]

  I actually run 10-12 lb. Big Game mono on line counters when using boards with long leads running crank and stick baits when fishing big open water like Quinte in the fall or Lake Ontario in the spring. I use a swivel and about 3-4' of flouro leader or no leader. I also use a snap for the ease of quickly changing lures  I use the same rigs running spoons and sticks for shallow spring browns on the lake but use snap swivels on spoons.

  On the river I use spinning reels on long rods when longlining cranks. I run 20lb. fireline or power pro and 20 lb. flouro leader due to zebra mussels. I often use split shot ahead of the swivel not only to get deeper but to keep weeds and water fleas off the lure. Longlining works for me in depth inside 35 '

  The river is very different with constantly changing current, and structure that often limit you to short trolls using shorter line lengths. That's one reason I often use very heavy bottom bouncers, heavy braid, 25 Lb. flouro leader and stout gear in deeper water where I sometimes troll in 40 fow or deeper with current. (Not a fun or easy way to fish but it can be effective)

[hermit]

Thanks for the input guys.  I'm going to go with PowerPro, I like it and know it.  Probably bump the test down a notch though (see below.) Though I'm still curious about the Kanzen if anyone has used it.
 
A few thoughts from reading- the Seaguar Kanzen advertises a thinner line per weight class.  I also read a lot of complaints on the Kanzen breaking.  It's also pretty well known most braids break well above their rated strength.  It's possible that Seaguar is just being more accurate with their ratings, and guys breaking Kanzen are used to overrated lines, which would help explain poor reviews.
 
Regarding PowerPro.  I was doing a lot of diameter to strength comparisons on lines.  Checking the PP website and their own published specs, it's a mess!  All over the place.  http://www.powerpro.com/publish/content/global_fish/en/us/power_pro_v2/info/using_powerpro/specs.html
 
The "20 lb" line has a diameter of 0.009.  This converts to 0.23 mm.  Look at the chart:  0.23 mm is rated at 15 kg, which is over 30 lbs!   So the exact same line is rated at "20 lbs" in the US, but is rated over 33 lbs in the metric world.  The "15 lb" line, when converted, is actually 19.8 lbs.
 
From reading it seems a lot of manufacturers overestimate braid strength because braid knots are weaker, but using the right knot can pretty much eliminate this problem.  Not going to go into detail as this isn't a knot post, but I found a few test reports (one here) that indicated that the bimini twist followed by a yucatan to attach the leader was the strongest, and for terminal tackle a palomar (2x through the loop).   I was pretty surprised that the uni-knot rated so low... might be time to learn the bimini twist!

Edited July 16, 2014 by hermit

[justtracytrolling]

I have several setups with the seaguar smackdown braid, and it doesnt break.  I tested it on a big tiger trolling and I really leaned on the fish far harder than normal and no problem.  The stuff casts incredibly and is UNREAL smooth and I love it, BUT...it will tangle wicked if you arent careful.  The stuff is the best fishing line there is, if you dont tangle it up and we fish in the dark.   Im going to keep it on the trolling set ups and my own spinning rod, but NOT on guest rods.   Im going to try some heavier smackdown soon.  Powerpro fishes easier and it probably better for most people...cheaper too!  Double albright knot works fine on casting setups and I use a barrel swivel tied on with a palomar for trolling.  Braid doesnt break period...its always the leader, hooks straighten, splitrings fail, or the rod breaks. Of course you have to watch it for wear, but Ive done that since I was a kid with mono.

[reeleyz]

I use 10# power pro or fireline when I am trolling cranks to get them deeper. I like to use 10# mono when I am pulling worm harnesses because I like a little give on them.

[mostlymuskies]

I also like using 10 lb P Line Mono when pulling worm harnesses.When long lineing crankbaits I prefer Blood Run 7 Strand stainless fishing wire 30 lb to get deep.

Edited July 16, 2014 by mostlymuskies

[hermit]

Here's another good article testing many lines, not just braid.  Went down the rabbit hole of research and haven't found my way back up yet...

 

One thing I found interesting was the strength to diameter ratio charts on page 3.  Some surprises there!  PowerPro is middle of the pack on most tests I've seen, which is fine as it's pretty cheap.  I like it as a quality economy braid.   One big surprise was seeing the Stren Sonic Braid on top.  I've never used it but it had the highest S:D tested!  There's a lot of info here on a lot of lines.

 

It would be nice if manufacturers were accurate about all this.  It bugs me that PowerPro sells the exact same line and calls it either 20 or 30 lbs depending on sales location.  As stated previously most braid products (sold in the USA) are like this.  Personally I think there should be some standards where labels have to be within a certain percentage! Anyway that brings us to Seaguar and line diameters.   (JT ah I didn't even realize Seaguar had the Smackdown, looks like a better line than their Kanzen which like I said has bad reviews.  Some people were breaking Kanzen but if it's their cheap option it makes more sense. They have similar specs.)

 

The Seaguar lines were not tested in any of the comparisons I saw or linked to here, but seeing the published strengths and diameters of those and other lines it seemed likely they were marketing the line as extremely thin and selling a more accurately labeled braid.  This morning I found the following which explicitly says that:

According to Gerry Benedicto, the PR manager for Seaguar’s superbraid fishing lines, “Our Smackdown braid is a ‘true’ breaking strength line. Unlike some competitive fishing line products that are rated for one test and actually break at another that is much higher, our Smackdown braid will break very close to its stated rated strength.

Source

 

There are a few other brands that market and label things similarly (accurately!), another popular one is Daiwa Samurai.   By all accounts Smackdown is a great line, I'd like to try it sometime.  It's just labeled differently than most braids. Take a look at the breaking strength charts for braids, they're all over the place!  I prefer accurate labels...  all this BS just makes it harder on the consumers who are trying to find the products they want!  Okay hope y'all find it interesting.

 

P.S. one thing I read said to consider US-sold braid labels as knot strength, not line strength.  Seems like a decent rule of thumb.

Edited July 17, 2014 by hermit

[Chas0218]

 

Here's another good article testing many lines, not just braid.  Went down the rabbit hole of research and haven't found my way back up 
 
The Seaguar lines were not tested in any of the comparisons I saw or linked to here, but seeing the published strengths and diameters of those and other lines it seemed likely they were marketing the line as extremely thin and selling a more accurately labeled braid.  This morning I found the following which explicitly says that:


Source
 
There are a few other brands that market and label things similarly (accurately!), another popular one is Daiwa Samurai.   By all accounts Smackdown is a great line, I'd like to try it sometime.  It's just labeled differently than most braids. Take a look at the breaking strength charts for braids, they're all over the place!  I prefer accurate labels...  all this BS just makes it harder on the consumers who are trying to find the products they want!  Okay hope y'all find it interesting.
 
P.S. one thing I read said to consider US-sold braid labels as knot strength, not line strength.  Seems like a decent rule of thumb.

 

I wish they would have separated the flouro and mono into different charts.  I know some/most monos are stronger than flouro just wish there was a distinction as to which was which for all the lines listed.  Also like you I could careless as to the diameter to strength ratio I would be more concerned with actual knot strength for each.

 

I use 30lbs. power pro for main line then 8'-10' 12lbs. red label seaguar.  It has been working great but the fleas are collecting a little on the 12lbs. leader.  I pull one side at a time after a couple passes.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Chas0218

[justtracytrolling]

I also like using 10 lb P Line Mono when pulling worm harnesses.When long lineing crankbaits I prefer Blood Run 7 Strand stainless fishing wire 30 lb to get deep.

Ive always wanted to try it....how do you figure depth with it?  

[mostlymuskies]

The 7 strand 30 lb wire is 2.5 to 1 ratio(30 ft takes 70 ft of wire) on crankbaits and 3.0 to 1 ratio(30 ft takes 90 ft of wire) for harnesses at 2.0 mph.