To trust the sub troll or not.

[Chas0218]

So I'm running the moor sub troll with the Torpedo wire copper-stainless downrigger wire. I hear everyone talk up the down speed units but it seems I have caught more fish without the unit in the water than with it in.

What is the best way to figure out if the unit is reading the correct speed? Also how much blow back do you guys get with the units?

I was thinking of running heavier balls mine are only 10lb fish weights.

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Edited April 3, 2014 by Chas0218

[bayofquintecharters]

In terms of the blow back a lot depends on how deep you are going. Most of us at this end of the lake go deep enough that in my opinion you need heavier then 10 lbs.

On tip for marking your rigger weights is to tip your transducer back a bit. Bear in mind you will be off a bit but close enough to help figure out were your fishing.

You need to spend more time with your sub troll until you have confidence in it. It is apparent you aren't t confident in it now and if that is the case it is a waste of time and money. Learning to have confidence in it will increase your success as you will learn when to move or go deeper before wasting lots of time.

Scott

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[Chas0218]

The deepest I fish is usually 100-130 fow as the run to deeper is just too far from my port.

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[hawkeye625]

You can run it just under the surface and check it against your gps.  Chances are very good that it won't match exactly but it will give you an idea if it's reading fast or slow.  My depthraider reads .5 slower than my gps.  On the surface if my gps reads 2.6 my probe is 2.1.  I keep the probe at 2 to 2.3 most of the time when trolling.  Surface gps speed can vary from 1.5 to 4 while keeping the 2 to 2.3 downspeed.

 

10lb is too light for the probe.  I'd go with whatever your riggers max at or at least a 12lb.  The 10lb is going to give you too much blowback.

[Chas0218]

My riggers max are 20 lbs. according to cannon. I was thinking in the 12-15 range but dont want to over do it mostly because they are manuals. After the 10th time of coming back up in a day it gets tiring. Watching green horns switching arms in the first 50' is quite a show.

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Edited April 2, 2014 by Chas0218

[JakeyBaby]

Never had a problem with fish hitting with sub troll in the water. Dont look at it like, I need to hold a certain speed because everyone one says thata the speed to hold. Every boat trolls different, and thats a fact! I always run my probe to what the fish want not what I want. As far as blow back a heavier weight is definitely the way to go, adding a probe alone will cause quite a bit more blow back then one with out. Just my 2.

[kliph]

I run 12# on my Sub Troll rigger and 10# on the other rigger.

Works fine that way.

[scobar]

don't pay attention to blow back affecting the sub troll speed reading. I've had a sub troll since they first came out, got to be getting close to 20 years now. Every few years I take it back in to have it serviced or just checked out. I was talking to Duane & Hank (owners) and he explained their testing on blow back. What happens is due to the fact that the ball is so close to the probe it pulls the probe level, I had my doubts on that but he told me they did some kind of testing to prove it. Anyways like said get to trust it and pay attention to it and you won't leave home without it.

[jekyll]

^{OP, what type of releases are you using and how are you connecting it?}

[NickR]

Find a happy speed where you catch fish on your GPS and match it w your sub troll. I knew some friends who swore on 2.5-2.7 on theirs, but with my gps speed where I caught most fish (high 2's) my sub troll is right at 2.2 so I keep it right at 2.2

I'm sure there are a lot of variables in the cable or your setup that may mess with resistance and or your readings.

I use mine mostly to tell how currents are and where temp is.

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[Dan1]

I switched to the 12lb torpedo weights a few years ago and they track pretty straight without much blowback.

[jimski2]

Your graph shows fish in certain depth zones. Many fish are deeper and do not show up because the frequency and ping speed is set for a higher depth. Putting more rigger cable out keeps your weights up high and after a certain amount of cable and probes are out along with your lures, the depth reached is at its maximum.

[momay4000]

Chas,

 

You're overthinking it.

 

1.) Use a 12-15# torpedo weight and it will help with the blowback

 

2.) Most importantly - the Subtroll is just a tool to give you a starting point on YOUR BOAT and a tool to reproduce what you are doing. Theorectically, you could also do this with your GPS but on my boat that fluctuates quite a bit especially on wavy days and it doesn't take into account sub-surface current which can change lure action.

 

That being said, I recommend that you know what you starting point is on your boat (such as 2.3-2.5 when starting out in the morning) and then make a mental note on your speed when a fish hits and reproduce it. If you hit a pocket of subsurface current or change trolling direction, use the Subtroll to help maintain your speed at which you consistently are catching fish.

 

I would give up my fishfinder before I'd give up my Subtroll

 

Good luck,

 

Chris

[Chas0218]

^{OP, what type of releases are you using and how are you connecting it?}

I am running a blacks style release but is modified to work with the type of cable.  It is setup via blood run recommendation.  I was thinking of trying one of the coated cables to see if that made a difference but I am getting speed readings that "look" correct compared to my gps boat speed.

 

Find a happy speed where you catch fish on your GPS and match it w your sub troll. I knew some friends who swore on 2.5-2.7 on theirs, but with my gps speed where I caught most fish (high 2's) my sub troll is right at 2.2 so I keep it right at 2.2

I'm sure there are a lot of variables in the cable or your setup that may mess with resistance and or your readings.

I use mine mostly to tell how currents are and where temp is.

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My first season on the lake 2 years ago I didn't have a down speed unit and kept my gps speed right around 2.5 mph and boated a good amount of fish.  unfortunately until I caught a fish I had to put my spread all over the water column because I had no clue where the thermocline or temps were unless I could hear a report over the radio.  

 

 

 

Last year was my first year with the probe so I am still learning it was just weird seeing my rigger cables at so much of an angle to get the correct speed. I did notice there is more blow-back with the probe rigger than the rest.  I'm not so much concerned about whether there is a speed difference with the blow-back but the actual depth the probe is running compared to the line counter on the rigger. I realize that it will be higher in the water column but the amount higher is my biggest concern I would like to get the rest of my riggers all near the same spot.

 

 

 

Also I was wondering if the majority of you guys run some sort of paint or coating on your rigger balls?  I read that running some sort of coating will help lower the likely hood of giving off voltage. I'm not sure if this makes a difference with manual riggers on a fiberglass boat but still would like some input.

[tlox]

To me its all relative.  If the subtroll (or depth raider which I have) is off from the true speed it really doesn't matter.  If I take a nice fish at 2.2 on the down speed, I fish 2.2 on the downspeed.  Whether or not that 2.2 is really 2.2 doesn't matter so much as it allows you to repeat your speed at the ball for whats working.

[tlox]

If you have the room, you can always try putting the probe on its own separate rigger, just pick up something less expensive and keep one rigger only for the probe.  I have 4 rigger mounts on my boat, but usually only run two riggers with stackers and keep a third rigger just for the probe.  I move the probe rigger up and down looking at water temps to set my rods and usually just keep it 50 down to give me a speed reading.

[momay4000]

To me its all relative.  If the subtroll (or depth raider which I have) is off from the true speed it really doesn't matter.  If I take a nice fish at 2.2 on the down speed, I fish 2.2 on the downspeed.  Whether or not that 2.2 is really 2.2 doesn't matter so much as it allows you to repeat your speed at the ball for whats working.

 

Chas,

 

Listen to exactly what this guy said - he hits the nail on the head.

 

As far as matching depth of the ST rigger vs. your other riggers - I would imagine even with the blowback, you're only talking a few feet difference in depth between your two riggers. Most of us stagger our riggers at different depths anyway, so this shouldn't cause huge concern.

 

Chris

[Tim Bromund]

To add to what Chris said, I'm really not all that concerned about depth change due to blowback, even if a lure is 15' above a fish, that's a halfhearted flick of the tail for a king and they will most certainly come up to smash a bait.  I'd much rather have a bait above the fish than below them.

 

Tim

[Chas0218]

Alright I will try what you guys are suggesting this year.  I figured I was over thinking it but was worth the effort to get some other opinions on the matter. 

 

So is it safe to say most if not all you guys fish above the probe rigger depth (once you find the correct temp)?

[brucehookedup]

I run my probe on the highest rigger, at the top of the break on my port rigger. I find the cold water, bring it up, and run it high. The blow back with 15lb balls is minimal. I run a scotty power grip clipped in above the probe, works mint. Dwayne and Hank are great at subtroll. If anyone needs parts in the Rochester area give me a call, I stock most of them. There is a adjustment in the back of the unit for speed. Go to a calm spot and drop youf probe down 3 ft out of any issues (prop wash) and adjust to your gps. Go several directions and speed, DONE go kill fish.

Edited April 3, 2014 by brucehookedup

[Yankee Troller]

I run my probe on the highest rigger, at the top of the break on my port rigger. I find the cold water, bring it up, and run it high. The blow back with 15lb balls is minimal. I run a scotty power grip clipped in above the probe, works mint. Dwayne and Hank are great at subtroll. If anyone needs parts in the Rochester area give me a call, I stock most of them.

 

I also fish my probe as the highest rigger. Usually in the Summer time I will find 60 degrees with the probe. Park the probe there, and fish everything below it. Also, anything less than 13lb weights on your probe is going to give you a lot of blowback. We never fish anything but a 15lb Torpedo on ours.

[Chas0218]

I also fish my probe as the highest rigger. Usually in the Summer time I will find 60 degrees with the probe. Park the probe there, and fish everything below it. Also, anything less than 13lb weights on your probe is going to give you a lot of blowback. We never fish anything but a 15lb Torpedo on ours.

Are you running one of troutman or atommik?

[LongLine]

The ground on the sub-T is the bottom connection so don't be concerned with painted ball or not.  Definitely recommend the "torpedo" or "rocket/missle" shaped weight for minimizing blowback.  The 220 Lb line definitely provides more blowback than the 150Lb.  The important part of using it is to be able to located temp and to be able to duplicate the speed of your lure when you catch a fish.  Many guys will slow down to land a fish and some even put it in neutral (which I highly advise against).  You want to be able to duplicate your lure action. 

 

Browns, Stlhds, Cohos, Atlantics and last year many Lakers were found above the slob Kings.  Those guys known for catching the slobs fish the cold water, but also have a lot of other lines out to cover warmer water.  Myself having only 3 lines generally put the probe with one line on it in the cold water and two on the other above it.  King will look up and it's awful easy to be fishing below a lot of fish on Big-O.  Sometimes I'll only have a couple feet difference between rig's but the probe carries a 14 Lb homemade weight but the other is a 10 Lb fish.

 

Tom B.

(LongLine)

[Yankee Troller]

Are you running one of troutman or atommik?

A-TOM-MIK 15lb Torpedo's

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[Gator]

Our speed jumps 0.5 mph on the probe when we release a rod and I think it's due to our running the Scotty release off the ball. BTW, we run round balls; if we tried to do that with torpedos, I know we'd screw things up for sure. 

 

We adjust speed on a daily basis and use the probe to figure out which direction and how strong the downcurrents are, so it's all relative anyway.