Chautauqua Lake is Hot!

[Ivan]

Everybody has their opinions I guess.  Mine were based off lots of personal observation.  I guess if you are afraid to hurt fish, then don't fish for them.  I'm confident the tactics I use, along with my release methods are sound and work, by far, the vast majority of the time.  Have I ever had a muskie die on me?....yes.  Have the vast majority of the muskies I've caught released well and swam off strong to be caught again?  yes

 

Heron...no offense intended...I don't know you, but sounds like you would fit in with the Northern Wisconsin guys well, where motor trolling is illegal.

 

Here's some interesting reads on the original topic of sight feeding:

 

http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=46235&DisplayType=nested&setCookie=1

 

http://www.in-fisherman.com/2011/07/14/pike-and-muskie-footprints-and-fingerprints/

[Ivan]

Probably won't find a more scientific based study than this on the topic:

 

http://jeb.biologists.org/content/204/6/1207.full.pdf+html

[User_155648]

Ivan,

 

Your right you "don't know me" and yet, twice now you have made Assumption's typical to internet forums and decided to point out and print your Assumptions in reply.  Your Assumption's are wrong.

 

* "fit in with" - I have nothing against motor trolling at all.  I have owned a half dozen motor boats strictly for fishing over the decades from small "pikie/walleye boats" with an outboard to 21' Searay buddy set up for Lake Erie,  along with 5 kayaks (2 sit in - 3 sit on top) all rigged for fishing……before Kayak fishing was cool.  Why?  because I have always fished and lived near/next to water.  My personal issue with motor boats is not trolling, in fact the exact opposite it's boats are bigger and faster than ever on small - modest lakes.  I would like to see some limets in Speed and/or HP allowed on certain modest waters like Chautauqua.

 

* There is no need to get defensive.  I am sure your release methods are sound.  You alone brought up the blind eye in the photo which sparked panfisher's observation's of a recent large Chaut. musky.

* Read my bio before you start assuming.  I have an interest in old,retro ways and collect to a small extent.  I also hunt/shoot Woodchucks with an old pre-war Winchester Model 70, Super Grade, 22 Hornet with a old Redfield Widefield 4x fixed scope.

* I have had interest in and partaken in paddling/rowing for years.  Some of my friends also have drift boats for rivers.  Rowing "Chautauqua Double Enders" to fish, is as old and historic as dirt.  If you frequent here you should know this tradition.  Ditto with the St.Lawrance River Skiff on Ontario and the S.L.R.  Row / paddle trolling and fishing/casting from in general is effective, takes skill, much less boreing than power trolling > more like casting, is rewarding and one Hell of a Workout while you fish !  I also hit the gym off season,gym member year round, bicycle, etc.  American's have become fat,lazy asses, which seek the easiest softest way ……..I am not one nor wish to contribute !  

* There is fine workmanship craftsmanship in such.  I appreciate that as a union tin knocker in the building trades for twenty years prior and the son of a union brick layer.  I was raised around old school craftsmanship

* On the other hand I would have Zero Issue with single hook Musky regulations as on certain Wisconsin, Ontario waters being implemented on Chautauqua if a Study showed it helped natural reproduction in Any way,shape or form.  I could live with that but,  I am not in it for $$$, professionally, in any way either as some are whom need to put fish in the boat and I am not sure a study would confirm this or not?  I assume the area's that have done this could shed some light in regards to.

Your out dated links on feeding > Look up an actual recent study by highly educated on rather than internet forum chat,etc. > Dr. John New / Loyola University .  It has been publicly available for some time.  The only ones whom don't want to hear the truth are Mepps and similar for obvious $$$ reasons !  Not to worry the flash from spinners is more than enough Sight and I am sure they will change they're marketing tune to that,  in the name of the almighty buck, soon enough just as net companies managed to strictly the netting/capture of and keep to with a net (definition - "to catch or ensnare" ) to "pens", " C & R ", CPR tools " for $$$ but at least they are trying and overall gotten a little better.

* I caught and released a approx 45" recently that was all beat and scared in the mouth,jaw,face from,  like pan fisher seen.  So his reply,concern………….I could relate to………as it is a pretty ugly scenario……….yet………I doesn't warrant in reply > "if your afraid to hurt fish then don't fish"……….and again you brought up the blind eye in photo before all.

* Stereotype - "the Northern Wisconsin guys, where trolling is illegal".  LOL > yea, all the lakes in Northern Wisconsin are illegal to troll and them guys are like that.  There are not certain ones that limit,  it's all of them.  Nor were there certain reason's for such > it's that Northern Wisconsin guys mentality.  â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦..  wew !

 

 

You replied in debating, argumentative way to me on another conservation thread I started even though I asked at the start for all to refrain from such and just speak their peace,opinion as we all have a right to.  I ignored.  Now a short time later your making in-correct Assumption's and rather than keeping it to yourself you decide you want to point out in reply = set the record straight.

 

The reality is any and all this musky conservation talk be it release techniques, scares,etc. if Good, creates awareness, improvements, better angling, etc. and that is an absolute proven fact of time…………..so I am glad you pointed out the blinded eye and pan fisher noted heavy scars on another.

 

Take care Ivan  > "out of a couple hundred plus Muskies, year"  

 

Touch'e

[User_155648]

Ivan,

here you seem to like the In-Fisherman.  From the same there is more recent.  

 

For "nutts and bolts" just skim down to "Sight,Sound and Research" section of link.

 

 http://www.in-fisherman.com/pike-muskie/muskie/sensory-muskies/

 

Mepps will have to pull out their $$$ pocket book and lobby ………or re-market via flash, sight movement,etc.  Funny (to me) was that Mepps just conducted their own little (self serving) sonic studies and recordings >  I never trust anything but third party studys when there are $$$ involved.  No doubt spinners spank fish but,,,,,,,,,,,,the sonic thing was getting a bit rich via the manufactures of and their $$$ pushing…….over the years/decades.  Panther Martin pitched the same sonic/lateral thing for Trout with their spinners for years……………………….

 

Flyfisherman pass on the same BS for generations,decades with Muddler Minnows because of a modest spun deep belly hair head > "puts out vibes , lateral lines pick up on "  BS has been around so long now in regards to the Muddler Minnow, generations have actually grown up hearing it as kids……….Thinking it's true. LOL

 

Like humans but internal ear, many fish can hear better than feel vibes.  Humans feel vibes too but see and hear better.  Spinner manufactures want to make you believe that the sport fish we seek most as a group are like a flying bats …….radar (lol) ,,,,,,but their selling and we are buying .  Dark water, night,etc. a lot of fish, mammals, etc. which hunt,eat others,predators can see much better in darkness than humans……..nothing new there…….it doesn't make them…… bat like…….which spinner manufactures and their "thumper blades" etc. would like you to believe.

 

So it all goes back to what you pointed out "blind eye" and large plugs with gangs of hooks don't help a Muskys much needed vision perhaps even greater odds of once in the net.   Unless you see the hook stick in and/or take out the eye > your not going to notice it at all if it's severely scratched,damaged the eye predominately at release.  BTW- I pull plugs also, don't like it, rather turn my head but it's real.  Like the modest Pike-O in my avatar I remove what hooks I can (center in this case) and limit the size/length of the plug as a whole.  Net and plugs be it eye's to scars are another issue but, they are getting better.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Heron 1961

[Ivan]

Good stuff Heron.  Nothing wrong with a friendly debate if it can be kept that way.  Hey...we've both apparently made some assumptions about each other that are wrong.  I can admit when I'm wrong.  Since you pointed out where my assumptions were wrong, let me point out a couple things you are wrong about.

 

First, that other thread on conservation you started...I was defending your original request.  Somebody else (Raven I think) got on there and debated your ideas, which you specifically requested people not to do.  I said I would not debate that stuff in that thread because that's what you originally requested.  You were wrong to say I replied in an argumentative fashion. That is quite a reach, and an incorrect conclusion.  I can see now why you requested people not to debate.

 

Second, to say that a muskies lateral line has very little to do with their feeding and a blind muskies would die, is wrong. The date of that very scientific study I posted does not change the findings (i didn't even look when it was done anyway).  Also, that first link I posted was to a very healthy, fat muskie that had no eyes.  That fish did not have ANY trouble feeding...that's obvious from its girth. It's certainly using it's lateral line to feed since it has no eyes.

 

As far as your shot at me about the amount of muskies I catch at the end of your second to last post...I'm not sure what you are getting at there.  I used those figures to illustrate a point of what a small percentage of fish I see that have blind eyes.  It was not used in a bragging manor. If you can't comprehend that a boat can catch and release that many muskies in a season, you are short sighted.  I have no reason to lie about what I catch and there are plenty of guys that can vouch for me. There are plenty of guys that have caught more than us. It's all dependent on your knowledge, skill, techniques, time on the water, and some luck. If you are an MI member, look me and my dad up in the lunge log sometime. Keep in mind I have friends besides me and my Dad that catch muskies out of our boat too.

 

Finally, if your preference to is use old style techniques and you don't care to actually catch fish, then that's fine.  It doesn't make my preferences wrong.  I like just being on the water too.  However, I prefer to have the best equipment I can afford. I also prefer to use techniques and technology to my advantage to catch as many and as big of muskies as I can. That doesn't make either of us wrong...that just makes us very different.

 

By the way....I hope you are not calling me fat and lazy too. 

Edited July 24, 2014 by Ivan

[User_155648]

Ha,ha

no I wasn't referring to you as fat and lazy

I don't question one bit your boat and comrade of boat 200 a year your right some do more. I chuckle because some seem to seek a way to squeeze numbers in for illustration purpose if they feel there " numbers" are good. Be it musky, steelhead whatever > numbers guys.

your further explanation above confirmed.

if you are fortunate to live and fish long enough, you get over catching the most, the largest, certain specific challenge ways like top water only, fly's only, hand made lures,fly's,bamboo,etc only and you come to realize its not about any of that and catching fish is simply a bonus. You fish them your way your terms with a conservation mind.

best luck on your high tech, ultra modern quest " top rods" etc. I have Thomas and Thomas two handed spey fly rods that run about a grand each too and years ago I was a st Croix dealer - looked at them as just value rods. Lately pitchin $50 Shimano bait casters - who cares? Latest greatest is marketing hype. Personally I like 70s Fenwick

take care lad. Enjoy the journey. Typically after "numbers" comes "trophy hunting" look forward to. Then casting only for rather than draging a half dozen lured behind motor, fast with a bunch of contraptions I between , electronics beeping waiting for the rod to pop, fish hook itself,,,,,,,,angleing

go grab some glass (b cast or fly) throw top water casting, rise a musky, hook him on a single hook. Take a quick pic while in the water then share it,,,,,,,that will show me something rather than numbers power trolling a bunch of rods.

tell me how you caught 100 casting top water, even blades.

"don't care to actually catch fish". Lol , I catch enough lad and live amongst top freshwater fishing by choice my life rather than travel to from the flat lands

no need for a "voucher" on your numbers either.

I know

look at the other lateral line link I left you. 99% of all this lateral line hype started with spinner manufactures, many,many,many moons ago and they keep it churning

[Ivan]

"You fish them your way, your terms, with a conservation mind"  I'm already doing that...you just don't respect my terms

Just because you are older than me (and I'm not that young...I'm 41) doesn't mean you have more experience with these fish than me or know more. I'm not claiming to know more than you either.  You just have a narrow mind.  Lad    

 

As far as my progression to trophy fish, you have no clue about me.  Don't need to look forward to it...already doing it.  I fish the Georgian Bay and St Lawrence almost every fall and would fish them more if they were closer or I had more time. It's not all about numbers for me, and there's no better place to get your ass handed to you looking for a single trophy fish.

 

I had you pegged correctly at first.  You think if it isn't caught casting or row trolling, it doesn't count...just like the guys in Northern Wisconsin. Hey when I get old and don't care if I catch any muskies, maybe you and I can be friends.    no thanks

 

Oh wait....How does that muskie with no eyes eat Mr Heron?  The baitfish must just feel sorry for her blind ass and jump in her mouth out of pitty.

 

That ought to lock this thread down!

[BlueEye]

Haha - Ok I think we have had enough entertainment here. 

[mostlymuskies]

I have know Ivan for many years, you do not get anymore musky conservation minded then him!

[justtracytrolling]

I enjoy the reports and photos from all over the state. For many the stories and pictures are as close we get to fishing water other than our home lakes. Conservation is obviously important, but how we each choose to enjoy our fishing is a personal choice. There is no wrong way to fish if the laws are followed. Keep the reports coming!

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