What if there were no Kings?

[baitrigger]

Oh and i forgot...KINGS FRICKIN RULE!!!

[baitrigger]

One more thing. Pound for pound is a load made up by people who cant fish the majors for whatever reason. A ten pound king whould kick a ten pound bass arse. That goes for all the other time passing fish we catch between kings.

[baitrigger]

One more thing. Pound for pound is a load made up by people who cant fish the majors for whatever reason. A ten pound king whould kick a ten pound bass arse. That goes for all the other time passing fish we catch between kings.

[meatman jr]

Can agree more with you more.

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[meatman jr]

Long live the KINGS !

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[meatman jr]

Must be he is out of work now. Maybe you wouldn't hate life so much if you work a honest day. Anyone else get the feeling biologists need the sportsman to do their work. Their as bad as politicians now.

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[hawkeye625]

And Hawkeye's response here is why the lake guys will always have their own little club and think that they are the best, their money drives this fishery, blah blah blah. Here is the point bigshot... 1 never have I stated that I am targeting a fish that is spawning. That would be fishing to fish on redds. Never was that mentioned there you mental giant. 2, I will guarantee that the fish that I do land in any trib has a better chance that a fish that has been dragged while the boat is in gear for hundreds of yards while fighting against you. #3 I avoid salmon in the tribs if I am able to. My target steelhead atlantics, and browns. All of which will spawn multiple times in their lifetime, so you little statement about  fish in the tribs to breed and then die shows that you are one of the more ignorant posters here.

 

I have no problem voicing my opinion here or anywhere, but never will I enforce my view on someone else, nor will I expect them to do the same to me. I have no problem standing on my own here. Most of the conversations are interesting and well written and kept to the point, but knee jerk reactions, uneducated and unfound facts have no place to be spread anywhere. So like it or not, the original question was a view of opinions that are out there. Mine was stated, and if you don't like it tough... I really could give a rats arse if you do or not, but to be challenged and give reasons why i don't feel a certain way and you don't like the reasons, you are then the one that needs to re-examine your views. Never did I say it was wrong, but I DID state that trolling is something that I personally find quite boring. It doesn't matter the species, Walleye, Tuna, Salmon, Dolphin... I find the tactic boring overall, and since that is the majority of the way that I have fished for LO salmon, (and the majority that you all have too) then you have my views on why that is. I will state that jigging for kings is way more fun, but it is not a tactic that can be used from start to finish of the lake season. Thus since it is not something that can be used from start to finish, i threw it out...

 

Do I have to re-iterate that arseholes and opinions are one in the same, everyone has them, you need to respect them, but don't rub them on others?

So the short version is that I misunderstood you.  The thread is about kings, yes.  One would ASSUME you were talking about kings not trout.  I've been called many things over the years but have to say you're the 1st to call me a "mental giant".  Wow that's classic. 

[tails up]

I cant believe im getting in to this but dnr ur not a Lo fishermen ive done the gambet of fish from perch to blue fin from our house in Avalon nj to my now place in Hamlin ny theres no other pelagic closer to a tuna then a king n no other place than Lo to target them im so happy more people aren't like u cause we would all be patch pirate green carp fishermen not real men battling four ft Plus waves looking for the only true fish in freshwater that even holds a candle towards a blue fin

[tails up]

Sorry missed phrase no other place then Alaska that u can have this kind of fished

[DNRoch]

He said "arse"! .... Bet he (DNRoch) thinks bass fishing is "sporting".

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Nope I'm just smart enough to actually use a word that describes you that will not be censored.

[DNRoch]

I cant believe im getting in to this but dnr ur not a Lo fishermen ive done the gambet of fish from perch to blue fin from our house in Avalon nj to my now place in Hamlin ny theres no other pelagic closer to a tuna then a king n no other place than Lo to target them im so happy more people aren't like u cause we would all be patch pirate green carp fishermen not real men battling four ft Plus waves looking for the only true fish in freshwater that even holds a candle towards a blue fin

Quite an original though, not one that I agree with since you equate real men with standing on a boat with 4 footers. Love the try and I just prefer not to toll why can't you accept that people who fish don't do it the same way as others all the time. Will I ever go for blue fin, probably not since I have no urge to catch a fish that I am not going to release or consume myself. Your comment is shallow minded don't you think?

[DNRoch]

Must be he is out of work now. Maybe you wouldn't hate life so much if you work a honest day. Anyone else get the feeling biologists need the sportsman to do their work. Their as bad as politicians now.

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Really out of work, hardly, I've always been employed since leaving college. If you think that I am a biologist then you are sorely mistaken. I'm a concerned sportsman who actually has the ability to comprehend the data that is presented at state of the Lake meetings. I question what I don't agree with to understand how that argument has come to be, but I don't always agree with everything. When I don't agree i present arguments to back up my stance or view, not make up statements or views off of very little factual information from small periods of time. But he if you really enjoy knee jerk reactions then have at it....  I really could care less 

[King Davy]

I don't know ...but Baitrigger did mention a low testorterone issue which could be taken as a manhood slam. It's easy to detect all the chest pounding, and long live the king stuff as postering one's man hood on here which my generation would describe one who must pound their chest may be compensating for other "Short Comings". I never associated catching a fish with having a sexual makeup or being a "Man". I say that as I'm married to a true world class angler who easily can handle everything from Salmon to 100 pound Tarpon. If you've seen Linds fish, you would never mistake her for a man.

Gill asked what would you do if there were no King Salmon in the lake. DNR as myself, simply are stating we'd enjoying fishing just as much and in some cases more. Having a Trib devoid of the Salmon rapers sure would be enjoyable. I guess from the majority of the responses many of you would fold up your tents and go home. For us that enjoy all the fish in the lake and the Watershed system.....that's also not bad news. Less pressure more enjoyable experience.

While Pacific Salmon anywhere on the globe spawn and die, all the other migrators do not. In fact do the math, a Steelehad typically spends more time in a river then in the lakes. I ran a boat for hire for 22 years on the lake....and caught more King Salmon then many of you might catch in a life time. They are a wonderful fish in open water. IMHO They are not in a river if hooked and fought by legal methods. Also IMHO, a Steelhead hooked in the lake while sporting, in my 44 years of fishing for them in the GL as well as the rest of the planet are much more sporting in a river on light tackle.

I've read with interest in the reports section many trollers who have had trouble finding Kings through the transition period which is historically normal, reintroducing themselves both Pro's and Rec's to the other species in the lake, with the revelation that "Hey...these fish are fun as well".

I still fish all the Great lakes, and Pacific salmon fishing has diminished in most of them, but Unless all those fishing boats sitting in Marina's I see every year have just become summer cottages, those guys have figured out they still enjoy trolling the lakes. There is a huge faction of people who beat Erie to a froth for a fish that fights like an old shore, and you couldn't get them to leave their game for all the king Salmon in the world.

We are lucky to have such a diverse fishery. I'm willing to bet that most of you who have made it sound through your words that you'd be just short of slitting your wrists if no Pacific salmon swam in this lake....might actually change your mind if presented that situation. Stay home and weed the garden or go catch 20 pound lakers and browns on light tackle, or even a FLY ROD...who KNEW???? Some of us already do!

Edited July 10, 2014 by King Davy

[GAMBLER]

Kings may spawn and die but they are thriving in Lake Ontario. Atlantics on the other hand have a very poor survival rate. The Canadian mnr is stocking 600,000 per year with less than 50 returns. The Atlantic salmon project is and has been a waste of time. Until they find a strain that will survive, they should not waste money and valuable hatchery space on a couple decade science project that has failed time and time again. How would the fishery survive on return rates and catchy rates like the Atlantic salmon gives us? Your pipe dream will become a nightmare for Lake Ontario if it ever happens.

[meatman jr]

DNRoch go watch "A river runs though it" and fall in love with Brad Pitt allover again, instead of attacking fisherman and women on their tactics. You are on a trolling forum after all. Put some water between you and your target fish.

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[DNRoch]

DNRoch go watch "A river runs though it" and fall in love with Brad Pitt allover again, instead of attacking fisherman and women on their tactics. You are on a trolling forum after all. Put some water between you and your target fish.

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Never attacked anyone, just stated that I don't enjoy trolling. But hey if trolling makes you feel all big and bad and more manly, then by all means troll. Id rather fish a different way for different species because there are other species that are better to fish for than LO kings. Is that simple enough for you to understand?

[Gill-T]

Not sure how this turned into a pissing match.  Different opinions should be welcome.  Moderators feel free to kill this thread as it is going nowhere productive.

[Silver Fox]

Never attacked anyone? 90% of the name calling is from you! You sound more and more like a narcissist and that's more of a fact than name calling....

[hawkeye625]

So getting back on track.... if there were no Kings...I would be all over the local hatches and tying a dozen or so mayfiles, midges, sulfer's or what ever the fish were gorging on at the given time.  Or I'd be fishing the local rivers for large catfish, stripers, or what ever pulled the hardest at any given time....some days its dough ball for carp!  Some days it might be a local farm pond for huge gill's or large mouth on a 3 weight or ultra light with jigs..  In early fall....well contrary to one posters belief..I'd be on a trib much closer to home chasing steelies on hand tied flies....which I have done for decades.  Try a dry fly for September steelies on an Erie trib....ranks high on difficulty list IMO.  How about stripping a clouser for stripers?  Pretty fun too.

 

Then there's scouting for deer or maybe trying to thin the local coyote population...many options.

 

No clubs here...just a die hard outdoorsman waiting to get into some active fish somewhere that will fight back the hardest.

[DNRoch]

Not sure how this turned into a pissing match.  Different opinions should be welcome.  Moderators feel free to kill this thread as it is going nowhere productive.

Completely agree since stating that you don't like to fish for kings is somehow a taboo topic here.... Then if you add on not only fishing for fishing for kings is not fun, but also the primary way to fish for them is not your favorite method, that brings out all of the negative comments. 

 

I actually thought it was a great initial question Gill-T.

Edited July 10, 2014 by DNRoch

[King Davy]

Folks everybody has to seriously get updated on your facts for the Atlantic Salmon study. No hatcery space that would be produicing other fish in Canada or the US are being pushed aside for this study. The key word is a study. The current work is looking at results of strains, and more importantly how it relates to habitat. I fish with, and hang out with several biologists with MNR that have worked on this study. The 600,000, and soon 200,000 that will go in on the NYS side is still a lab experiment, that isn't focused on creating a sport fishery (YET!) It's to try and find a starin that marries to a habitat that encourages their return to spawn....and successfuly spawns.

And yes the results haven't been stellar. My Biologist friends have been diving in open water off the study streams and have witnessed 100's sometimes 1000's of newly smolted Atlantic's that have done what they are supposed to do, from the fry state. Smolt and head to open water. BUT they haven't retuned as adults successfully in measurable numbers. WHY????? that's the $64 Million question isn't it. It's science, and no matter what you want to belive science runs the entire show including the Pacific species.

Let me ask you this. Would any of you be happy if we were only loading 600K kings in this fishery with what has historically been a survival rate to adult returns of hatchery fish of less then 7%? The King Salmon fishery we have today has since day one for the past 40 years been a stocking number ALWAYS in the Multi millions. What happen in the mid 90's when it got cut? Everybody moaned and the salmon fishing was tough. But there in lies the key. You can't create even a hatchery sport fishery with less then millions of fish in a watershed this size. Not hundreds of thousands.

So stop expecting this to be a boom for sport fishing just yet. Also the target isn't to create a "put and Take" fishery. It's to create a fully natural fishery. Not the same thing.

If you think Canada would be spendng money on King salmon if they weren't spending it on this native species you aren't paying attention. If not this then Coastal Brook Trout, or other native species. Go read the reports section for the past three weeks everybody belly aching and getting nervous about where are our kings. They've always been there, beside the 3 million that are stocked there are millions more naturally reproduced, yet at times you guys think they disappeared cause you can't catch them.

And like Steelhead ...Atlantic Salmon are not a top contender as a trolled for fish. They aren't anywhere in the world. They are a river fish, and Canada happens to have more natural reprodcing streams then any place in North America. Especially on the North Shore of LO. A Dozen tribs on the North shore produce nothing but wild steelhead. One would think that they might also handle Mr. Salar. HENCE the effort folks.

And like it or not....it's just not all about open water fishing. And the effort numbers don't lie...especially in Canada. The trib game IS THE game. How much is going on on the LO Canada open water reports?

I'll end with this....open your eyes....we are the luckiest people on the planet when it comes to trout and salmon fishing. We have something for everybody. I've been fortunate to fish the world, and while I love many species in other places...there is no place like home. Go catch kings and big browns lakers and steelhead, and get off the Atlantic Slamming band wagon. Let the science guys try and figure this out. Look at the fishing reports on creels from the lake the last 10 years it's been through the roof with success. This Study for SURE isn't messing up your lake trolling. So why belly ache about it? You can help them by releasing as best as possible all the adult Atlantics you catch. Be part of the solution. Help us out.

[meatman jr]

Folks everybody has to seriously get updated on your facts for the Atlantic Salmon study. No hatcery space that would be produicing other fish in Canada or the US are being pushed aside for this study. The key word is a study. The current work is looking at results of strains, and more importantly how it relates to habitat. I fish with, and hang out with several biologists with MNR that have worked on this study. The 600,000, and soon 200,000 that will go in on the NYS side is still a lab experiment, that isn't focused on creating a sport fishery (YET!) It's to try and find a starin that marries to a habitat that encourages their return to spawn....and successfuly spawns.

And yes the results haven't been stellar. My Biologist friends have been diving in open water off the study streams and have witnessed 100's sometimes 1000's of newly smolted Atlantic's that have done what they are supposed to do, from the fry state. Smolt and head to open water. BUT they haven't retuned as adults successfully in measurable numbers. WHY????? that's the $64 Million question isn't it. It's science, and no matter what you want to belive science runs the entire show including the Pacific species.

Let me ask you this. Would any of you be happy if we were only loading 600K kings in this fishery with what has historically been a survival rate to adult returns of hatchery fish of less then 7%? The King Salmon fishery we have today has since day one for the past 40 years been a stocking number ALWAYS in the Multi millions. What happen in the mid 90's when it got cut? Everybody moaned and the salmon fishing was tough. But there in lies the key. You can't create even a hatchery sport fishery with less then millions of fish in a watershed this size. Not hundreds of thousands.

So stop expecting this to be a boom for sport fishing just yet. Also the target isn't to create a "put and Take" fishery. It's to create a fully natural fishery. Not the same thing.

If you think Canada would be spendng money on King salmon if they weren't spending it on this native species you aren't paying attention. If not this then Coastal Brook Trout, or other native species. Go read the reports section for the past three weeks everybody belly aching and getting nervous about where are our kings. They've always been there, beside the 3 million that are stocked there are millions more naturally reproduced, yet at times you guys think they disappeared cause you can't catch them.

And like Steelhead ...Atlantic Salmon are not a top contender as a trolled for fish. They aren't anywhere in the world. They are a river fish, and Canada happens to have more natural reprodcing streams then any place in North America. Especially on the North Shore of LO. A Dozen tribs on the North shore produce nothing but wild steelhead. One would think that they might also handle Mr. Salar. HENCE the effort folks.

And like it or not....it's just not all about open water fishing. And the effort numbers don't lie...especially in Canada. The trib game IS THE game. How much is going on on the LO Canada open water reports?

I'll end with this....open your eyes....we are the luckiest people on the planet when it comes to trout and salmon fishing. We have something for everybody. I've been fortunate to fish the world, and while I love many species in other places...there is no place like home. Go catch kings and big browns lakers and steelhead, and get off the Atlantic Slamming band wagon. Let the science guys try and figure this out. Look at the fishing reports on creels from the lake the last 10 years it's been through the roof with success. This Study for SURE isn't messing up your lake trolling. So why belly ache about it? You can help them by releasing as best as possible all the adult Atlantics you catch. Be part of the solution. Help us out.

Facts without name calling... Thank you! Give repect get repect. I wish more guys where golfers or like dnroch when they do start showing up. All in all I belive we all wants what's best for our waters, so future generations can enjoy our land and water as we are today.

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[sea yea 2]

Just because there are not as many reports on a fishing website doesnt mean people here are not fishing open water. Bluffers on a warm saturaday has 50-75 empty boat trailers and who knows how many charters and larger boats that leave straight from that large marina. It is not JUST a trib game by any stretch.

As for the wrist slitting(lol) although it would suck hard without kings i personnally would put my focus soley on esox once again. If its not hard to find catch and land a 30lb pike in a small lake than i dont know what is.

I have no issue with the other species in the lake whatsoever and can respect other peoples love affair with them, i would simply hate to see the destruction of a wonderful fishery loved by most in order to fulfill an extremely unlikely pipe dream.

Sometimes its better to look to a bright future than to try reinstate the past, whats done is done we can only work with what we have now.

[GAMBLER]

The mnr is stocking Atlantics for one reason..... Private money. Do some research. One of the Canadian hatcheries does not raise kings anymore to raise Atlantics. They also dropped there coho program. Every year I catch more coho than Atlantics and a lot less coho are stocked.

[King Davy]

SY2....where has it been written that the Atlantic salmon study is to replace the other species? That's totally unfounded, but rather assumed I guess by suspicious thoughts of others? I've never understood this. While it wasn't popular in 1993 to cut King stocking simply from a science perspective to protect the food web and feed the fish we had until the forage base rebounded and stocking increases for salmon resumed..(which obviously it has and continues 21 years later) people have been crying about some under the covers covert operation to get rid of King salmon.

Native species studies have been going on in this lake and the GL since Seth Green started playing around the Genny 130 years ago. I stand corrected if there is great effort on the NS open water, but you and I both know that more effort happens on your tributaries from Sept to May.

Now I'm being a smart a$$ but I'm starting to worry about some of you folks...you must be losing sleep at night worrying about all the secrete meetings going on at the USGS, MNR and DEC to end the dreaded King stocking. REALLY???