What if there were no Kings?

[King Davy]

And has been heavily funded by private money, and not all federal money. Gambler....they started cutting King and Coho stocking way before this all started. Coho are stocked as survivable fish that are nearly a year and a half old.....not fry that are an inch at length. To where a blue gill could eat it. You can believe it or not but with the majority of all fish swimming from rivers on the North Shore being naturally reproduced including millions of king salmon smolts, the Canadian's have been reducing hatchery stocking for a decade.

[Fish Hunter]

If there were no Kings, I'd just stay on Oneida and pound the Walleyes.

MUCH better tasting anyway..................

[King Davy]

One of the other reasons Canada has wanted for many years to get out of the Coho game??? They didn't return to their rivers well. Heck they might give up on Atlantics and go to Sockeye next, but forget about trolling for them unless  you can pull lettuce behind you rotators.  

[momay4000]

 The comments about manhood should really check themselves.

 

 

 

to each their own why is that so hard to get into the heads of others.... People who state that 1 is better than the other might want to do a bit more self censoring then they have before.

 

 

why the lake guys will always have their own little club and think that they are the best, their money drives this fishery, blah blah blah.

 

Here is the point bigshot...

 

... shows that you are one of the more ignorant posters here.

 

I really could give a rats arse if you do or not, but to be challenged and give reasons why i don't feel a certain way and you don't like the reasons, you are then the one that needs to re-examine your views.

 

Do I have to re-iterate that arseholes and opinions are one in the same, everyone has them, you need to respect them, but don't rub them on others?

 

 

Nope I'm just smart enough to actually use a word that describes you that will not be censored.

 

 

Quite an original though, not one that I agree with since you equate real men with standing on a boat with 4 footers. 

 

Your comment is shallow minded don't you think?

 

 

 But he if you really enjoy knee jerk reactions then have at it....  I really could care less 

 

 

Never attacked anyone, just stated that I don't enjoy trolling. Is that simple enough for you to understand?

 

You might want to re-read some of your posts DNR......

 

In 3.....2.....1.....this post will be locked by the Moderators

[DNRoch]

You might want to re-read some of your posts DNR......

 

In 3.....2.....1.....this post will be locked by the Moderators

I don't see a direct attack anywhere where berating is done. just answering questions and stating that there should be reviews of comments made... Once again, you might want to review our quote before you spin them to be used against someone. 

[tails up]

Yea lock this topic it took me a minute to realize were dealing with Canadian advocates just get rid of this

[Silver Fox]

How bout at the next state of the lake meeting you let everyone know who you are?

[DNRoch]

I love the fact that those who think I am a biologist believe that i have a hidden agenda. I am a rec angler like most of you. I happen to hold a guides license but I am in the IT security field for my day to day income.

Edited July 10, 2014 by DNRoch

[DNRoch]

King Davy and I have been involved with the DEC for many years, he well before me and both of us since 2002 when I met him for the first time. He and I have quite a few of the same ideas, not 100% of the time but pretty close. Personally we see the same things in the same manner, He trolls and has done it way more than me 20 some years as a guide on LO, but at the same time respects those that choose not to. The key is to manage as a whole not as 1 entity or another. there have been no silver bullets, and there never will be, but you also have to have enough data or make the tests big enough to actually see an outcome. 4-8% might not seem big but a 4-8% over 10 years is huge.

[King Davy]

To Dave's point is it really a shock that not everybody that fishes this watershed doesn't hold the King salmon close to their heart? If your wife or best friend would rather eat a Chillian Sea Bass, rather then your all time got to die for favorite Prime Rib are they now an idiot?

 

We haven't disagreed that they aren't a fun fish to catch, at least he and I and probably some others have other favorites. I think that's a good thing. I can be just as entertained sneaking up on a trickle in a PA mountain stream, with a size 16 sulfer I tied at breakfast, with hardly any clearance from the forrest canopy make a perfect 30 foot cast into a tight spot of less then six inches to catch the current perfectly (which means I "Read" the flow to perfection), and have an inches fish (not in pounds) come up with the same reckless abandon as a 30 pound salmon attacks a fly or spoon and eat that bug.....and have the fish bend my 3 weight cane rod to the handle.

 

I like trolling, but I love hunting fish in difficult places and conditions....and there are no numbers that I derive as a successful day ...except the number 1. I'm an old old cat doing this for nearly 50 years...and all fish make me happy.

 

Gill started an interesting thread, I like it...cause, nothing lasts for ever folks.

 

From 1970 until what the early 2000's??  I could go out anywhere on our South shore and catch tons of black bass. I mean it was insane...100 fish days if you wanted to spend the time was doable. How about now? Was good for 30 ...off the hook good...now GONE! Just got back from the 1000 Islands ....never saw ONE boat fishing the St Louie from the cape to the lake on a perfect day.

 

It's all good....cause at the end of the day....with jobs, health issues, worriying about your kids if you have them, friends and family....It's just fishing folks. Let's hope we can keep it all in perspective.

 

Cheers.

[ut_falcon]

Think again when you claim no hatchery space was reallocated for the Atlantic's. The entire Canadian brown trout program for lake ontario was moved to a hatchery ill suited for brown trout production. The new hatchery has colder water resulting in yearling browns that are half the weight. the previous hatchery is now being used for the Atlantic's. The new location is also 3 hours further from the lake making transportation if the browns that much harder.

[baitrigger]

Please. Anybody have a sence of humor anymore. How does anyone take a testasterone shortage as an attack on manhood? Did anyone see the analogys. Major leauges...kings

Football...kings

Soccor...fly fishing.

Men...kings

Girls...fly fishing.

Man at least go find some musky. Chest pounding...please.

This forum is all about trolling lady O. There is no way i would every stop fishing. Some folks just dont get it. Working a twelve rod spread, driving to the place where the fish are. Spending three eight hour days setting gear for the boat. Including tying more knots than a fly guy ties all year. Dacron to flioat line to leeader to tippet to fly. What a pain in the arse. Dry flys egg sacks beads and yarn. The fish still turn on a couple times a day and thats all the action. Those 9wt orvis rods cant handle kings, even brown ones so we dont like it. They didnt have the luck of having twenty year friendships that revolve around the sport.

In summery. KINGS RULE!!!

[King Davy]

My statement wasn't that fish haven't been moved around, but rather entirely replaced....just because of the Atlantic Salmon.  If you work for MNR and state that moving fish from three hours away is much harder, then I won't challenge it. I happen to help float stock and bucket stock brown trout all over the state of NY and many times the fish are more then 3 hours from home, and we've never had an issue.

 

 Guys it's easy to check the stocking records on both shores from it's inception. Atlantics have been stocked by both countries for ever. People who've been in this game as long as I,  know that the turning down of Coho and Chinook stocking from our Northern brothers started way before the ramp up of Atlantic Salmon stocking. I sat in meetings with reps from both MNR and NY 20 years ago listening to reasons for stocking cuts on these species from the North Shore.  

 

Through all the belly aching on the advent of trying to figure out the A salmon puzzle....I've yet to read a single post that an angler doesn't catch King salmon any more. and it has to be because of this program. The reports thread as the fish come back off their wayward travel offshore following the migration of the thermal bars are going to be like the neon lights of vegas...right through till you boys put your boats to bed.

 

I know...I know....you hate to hear this...I'm truly sorry for having said this...and I probably deserve the spanking you are going to bring....BUT THIS FISHERY JUST ISN'T ONLY ALL ABOUT THE KING SALMON.

 

Hence Gill's question. What you'd do without them?

[GAMBLER]

Last time I checked, the salmon were the most sought after fish in the lake. The kings, coho, steelhead, browns and lakers come before Atlantics in 99% of Lake Ontario anglers minds. Other than a couple pipe dreamers, I have never heard someone show up at the dock wanting to go out and target Atlantics.

[King Davy]

Not sure Baitrigger....I'm pretty sure I may have a few years on you playing the trolling game. I started in 1972. So for sure the hunt on open water to where many variables such as wind and current reposition the food web, and thus the fish, is for sure a lot of fun and a challenge. From your statements you've either never fly fished...or haven't been very successful at it. Do you fly fish? If your  from NJ ...hopefully you've tagged a few of your bass and Albies off the sound on a fly.

 

I don't get the Major League.gig....Once you locate Salmon they aren't all that hard to catch. A fish that grows from six inches at stocking to on Avg. 16 to 20 pounds as a spawning adult in three short years...is mostly doing one thing "EATING". Are they active certain times of the day for sure.....but have you not actualy caught them just about any time from Sunup to say 2 PM....and then in the evening?  

 

I don't know but all this major league stuff still sounds like chest pounding. And this is the "OPEN Discussion Forum" if I'm not mistaken not the LO reports thread. And if you've ever slid past the lake reports there is tons of other threads that include WARM Water species ....how terrible is that?

[GAMBLER]

It is an open forum, but it is pretty interesting how you only contribute to threads that you can inject your approval of Atlantics and no other useful input to the forum.

[baitrigger]

Im from lewiston ny. I fly fish after the boat goes away. Fly fishing is an individual sport, regardless of snappy comebacks. Locating fish consists of buying a pair of polarized glasses, see the fish and hit him in the nose ten times. If this doesnt work, change bait and hit him again. Tired of changing bait, hit a differant steelie in the head. Wait you could fish em blind. Then you're float fishing. You use eggs if your tired of watching mupears catching more than you. If this is the case, you might as well fish with some worms. Fly fishing is a direct old time extention of cane pole fishing. 1985 was my first boat. There was no internet, it took years to figure out how to troll for kings. We had nobody to teach us. I tought my boys to catch fish with a fly rod in one day. They were proficant with a spinning reel first. Niether is a good mate on the boat. Like most teens, they have no patients. Ive worked in long island the last two years and taught myself surf casting for strippers. On my way home i got to fish beaverkill. They know me by name at the rasco dinner. Id still trade three days alone on the delaware for one twenty/twenty on the boat. You ever see the pictures in every cabin. Grannys knitting stockings and granpa tying flies. What would you do if there were no kings? What if no nfl? Salmon hunter would watch ncaa football. Fly man would watch soccor...back on point KINGS RULE!!!

[DNRoch]

Im from lewiston ny. I fly fish after the boat goes away. Fly fishing is an individual sport, regardless of snappy comebacks. Locating fish consists of buying a pair of polarized glasses, see the fish and hit him in the nose ten times. If this doesnt work, change bait and hit him again. Tired of changing bait, hit a differant steelie in the head. Wait you could fish em blind. Then you're float fishing. You use eggs if your tired of watching mupears catching more than you. If this is the case, you might as well fish with some worms. Fly fishing is a direct old time extention of cane pole fishing. 1985 was my first boat. There was no internet, it took years to figure out how to troll for kings. We had nobody to teach us. I tought my boys to catch fish with a fly rod in one day. They were proficant with a spinning reel first. Niether is a good mate on the boat. Like most teens, they have no patients. Ive worked in long island the last two years and taught myself surf casting for strippers. On my way home i got to fish beaverkill. They know me by name at the rasco dinner. Id still trade three days alone on the delaware for one twenty/twenty on the boat. You ever see the pictures in every cabin. Grannys knitting stockings and granpa tying flies. What would you do if there were no kings? What if no nfl? Salmon hunter would watch ncaa football. Fly man would watch soccor...back on point KINGS RULE!!!

I love this poster... not one ounce of sense in the entire rant. Keep pounding that chest there.... By the way, I really hate soccer, but I fly fish, spin fish, centerpin or float fish, and guess what I prefer the NCAA football over the NFL.

Do you also look down at those who drive a different brand of truck than you too, since that is exactly what you have described yourself as doing here by questioning manhood since people don't enjoy trolling let alone fishing for Kings....

[GAMBLER]

King Davy and dnrroch, take your Atlantic salmon agenda somewhere else. No one here wants to hear two internet trolls jump on a topic and bash kings and trolling for kings.

[justtracytrolling]

It is an open forum, but it is pretty interesting how you only contribute to threads that you can inject your approval of Atlantics and no other useful input to the forum.

 

Its amazing how many "experienced anglers" just use this forum to argue and/or sell stuff.  How about participating in a constructive manner.  You know post FISHING REPORTS, answer questions, and if you have to get into a debate try to be respectful and stay on track.  I just love the "experts" who either dont fish or wont share anything constructive.  

 

If there were no kings Id still be fishing for walleyes!   

[tails up]

King Davey n dnr u

[tails up]

King Davey n dnr u guys don't getitlake Ontario without kings would put hundreds of businesses out of business ppl don't leave from states that have plenty of troutu or atlantics to drive there rig five hundred miles to catch the same fish as a lake ten miles away without kings its just a lake ive actually met people from Alaska that came here to c our fisherie n u talk about finding them n jus catching a bunch of fish thats the point no different then finding the pod of stripers ur talking in circles n yes I fly fish spin fish n o my even ice fish u gonna tell me watching tip ups for pike is to easy for u to

[King Davy]

Baitrigger....we have a breakthrough we both have a special respect and enjoy the Delaware. So good for you fishing with your kids. I get the teenage thing, but they may come around as they get a little older. We have four girls all at one time were great little fishermen...all fished the boat and salmon, one was an exceptional fly angler, and then they turned back into Young women and it's just Linds and I.

 

Gambler.....I no longer have much to offer on open water fishing...as I don't get to fish out there often. I did take a lady friend out in her little boat and show her how to catch fish this spring out of my old Port of Sandy.....and yes we caught our 40 fish, just don't think we need another report that somebody caught 40 cookie cutter browns and cohos. Yeah love Atlantic salmon...I did try and provide some perspective on what the A Salmon study is all about at the moment. Take or leave it...it's what's going on. It's factual, as far as what the "Scope" is from a scientific study perspective. The Scope is key....the effort at the moment is not gong to create a world class sport fishery. Someday....maybe maybe not. But trying to figure it out truly isn't ruining our open water fishery....so why not try.

 

People showing up to troll for A salmon. I wouldn't think we'd ever see that. Those that know A Salmon, and have experience with them, world never want to target them from a trolling boat. I do follow your posts out of Sandy as I've fished that wonderful shoal just east of the port for many many years and caught boat loads of fish.

 

I enjoy all fish, and why I travel to fish for so many species. Love my home  fish, and have a special place n my heat for Steelhead and A salmon. Always have. If some of you ever have the experiences I've had with these fish and a two handed rod in big roaring rivers where before you can count to four , you are through a 100 foot of fly line and 100 yards  of backing looking only skyward because this 20 pound dime bright beast is 8 feet in the air not once but EIGHT TIMES......you might still like your kings better, but maybe get from where I'm coming.

[King Davy]

I'd like anybody to copy and paste my words that state I wish there were no King Salmon in the lake. In fact my first post was to ask if anybody has ever tried catching these fish including kings jigging.  Next last I knew this is a free country, if I prefer to fish for other species instead of kings that is purely my choice. The question was what would you do if they were gone. I think I made it clear I'd fish for other species as I do today. Would I miss them out in the lake....sure. Would I miss them in a River...no way. They are not the same fish folks. All the things you love about them in the lake is not the way they fish unless fresh in from the lake in Aug or Sept.

 

I think maybe what bothers me most about kings in a river is they are disrespected so much. I've fished Alaska for nearly 20 years....I know Alaskan kings very well. They aren't the same animals as we have in our lakes. Kings in Alaska are in serious trouble ...are regulated heavily. If you know anything about Alaska you'd realize no fish is more protected throughout the State and watersheds then the Rainbow trout. Most places they can't be harvested...because they draw anglers before, during, and after all the salmon runs.

t

 

Atlantic Salmon are a wonderful sport fish. For me as fresh water salmonids go, they are the fish I most enjoy fishing for. I could truly care less how you feel about that. But in toting MY favorite fish, I've never said we should replace King Salmon with millions of stocked atlantics. So get over yourselves.

 

One last thing....No Salmon fishery in NA and Europe creates more capital then Atlantic Salmon. 

[baitrigger]

See the problem is there is a time and place. If you want to get deep. Start your own topic. This is a light hearted thread ment for salmon fisherman who are hurtingright now because mother nature has been so cruel this year. Ill say it again. You dont get it. You hit this thread talkin about you dont like salmon trolling and its like going to a funeral and saying you never liked the guy being buried. You want ti talk conservation or other species. Start a thread with that dry arse subject. This is what if there were no kings. That would be the day the music died. LONG LIVE THE KING AND THE CRAZY BAS...DS WHO CHASE THEM... KINGS RULE...get it?