Lure making 101

[Great Lakes Lure Maker]

Update on the blanking process.

 

So, Part of the reason I wanted to start this subject was so others could see what goes into manufacturing fishing lures, but also to give you an idea how difficult it can be to get this process started back up and to deal with "wrenches" that get thrown into the process. Today's post will be one of the "wrenches" in this process.

 

I dropped off 3 dies early in July and ordered 6,000 blanks. 2,000 each, with a rush on the #4's. I even dropped off enough metal to get 1,000 of them right away. After some negotiation of terms and prices we agreed to proceed, and we shook hands in agreement. All I was waiting on was prices of metal, if I decided to buy it from them, and when I could expect to receive the blanks. 2 weeks go by and no word, so I call there and leave a message. Next day, no word, so now I email him and wait. 2 more days go by and he calls to tell me he is having difficulties with the metal we want and has some other issues he would like to discuss. I ask him to brief me the details in an email, and I would get back to him with answers. Keep in mind 2 of the 3 dies he got were brand new, and the 4 die has only punched 300 blanks before it was shelved.

 

Here is the laundry list of obstacles that were brought up to be solved.

 

First is the dies themselves. It was suggested that we have them sharpen our dies, change the strippers on 2 to a different kind (these are the new ones), and switch from 1 1/16 stock width to 1 1/4. The only problem with that is we have 15 other blanking dies that are all ready 1 1/16. Another issue is the waste. We purchase this metal by pound, and we need to limit the waste, since this metal is expensive.  In the end, we decide to have them sharpen the dies, and change the 2 strippers to a different style. Same as the 3rd die. Keep the 1 1/16 width.  Total cost to get this done, $600. I run a check down right away to get this process started.

 

Second problem is the metal itself. We have always used 440 grade stainless steel. This is knife quality steel, highest in rust resistance and the best choice for what we are using it for. They offer 303 and 302, and only a 2B finish. (very dull). Not exactly what we wanted to here. Another issue is they want to buy it in sheets and cut it to length. (now I know why they want to change the width) 

We have always purchased it in rolls and have equipment to handle it, and feed it to the press.This presents another issue, the quality of the finish. It already will require heavy polishing to get the desired shine if we use their metal, but cutting sheets into strips will put a lot of scratches into the metal. and we have a saying when it comes to polishing, "it's all painless, except the stainless". 440 stainless is very hard, and doesn't polish very easily. Minimize the polishing saves a lot of money and time. 

 

There were also issues about price. Buying their metal was some how 3x's what was expected, (and lesser quality) so we have an obstacle to get over to proceed. We have always purchased "ultra high finish" steel. It comes with a vinyl coating on both sides and the finish is almost mirror like. The vinyl protects the finish during all the phases of stamping, and once removed, requires very little effort to polish it to the desired finish. Also, we were going to be charged $300 per die, to set it for a run. That adds another .15 per lure to the cost. We negotiated that fee away, and exchanged it for a new minimum order per die run. 

 

So now were back to negotiating. If we can't get what it is we want from them, (Waiting to here if they can) we will go back to purchasing metal from Ulbrich, and have to order larger quantities to justify the trucking, as well as make arrangements with the shop to receive it, so we don't have to handle it twice. 

 

This is where we left off, till we get more info, and can come to terms on what metal and where to purchase it from, we are back to waiting, however the 4's will get run right away with metal we dropped off.  Since there are already about 12 dozen (a gross) spoken for, I would like to get them back as soon as possible. We will see how it goes from here. 

 

Till next time,

Jason

[hammer's down]

Hang in there, once you get the process ironed out, things should go smoother. And I believe Ulbrich is rite around the corner from me.

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[Sk8man]

X 2 on the "hang in there" Jason it usually gets worse before it gets better so hopefully you'll be headed for better   In the meantime enjoy whatever part of the vacation you can.....you'll get there bud.

[Great Lakes Lure Maker]

Thanks guys! Were in it for the long haul now. There has been a lot of talk between my dad and I now for the last 5 yrs about starting back up again. I hope things go a little smoother, but overcoming obstacles is always part of the game. I have a feeling the paint process changes will be the worst of it.

Jason

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[LakerTaker85]

Awesome post! I love those split spoons. What are they called? I went fishing with Dick Bennett when I was younger and he gave me two of those spoons and I still have them today.

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[Great Lakes Lure Maker]

That would be the Oakie Doakie. That lure was designed by a " hydro dynamics" program at Dick's shop. "Bennett Tool and Die". It took us several years to get the right combination of nose and tail to produce its action. All of our dies were made by Dick's shop. Far as im concerned, Dick Bennett was the best! Always excited about making lures, and always provided the best quality dies you could make. He helped us out enormously, and I couldn't say enough about him. Wish he was still with us!

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[ifishy]

sounds like it might be worth shopping the work around to some different shops?  dont give in on the metal supply i had to find some a little while back and I discovered there are a ton of places both local and online to purchase metal in whatever specs you need.  As a profesional buyer I can tell you that looking for a long term supplier of a high cost commidity like stainless you should be getting top notch customer service from suppliers and probably get it close to keep the shipping cost down.

[Jammin]

X2 on ifishy with the amount of machine shop auctions all over the place and manufacturing leaving get what you need from him cause you paid meanwhile bid out to your specs not theirs(cause that's how he likes to do it) there are plenty of guys that are hungry and willing to please and lots of places to buy the metals you want the way you want good luck sounds like you'll succeed with your passion for it

[Great Lakes Lure Maker]

I'm with you both on the "shop around" idea. I figured we would have some issues to solve, but not at every level. When we left the first day, it seemed as though we were on the same page with things, and we should be moving some metal around soon, but not the case. It seems as though they use a certain metal for a lot of products they make on a regular basis, and didn't want to get involved with other metal. I think that we will go back to purchasing the metal, and just pay the piece rate for the blanks. Seems to be less complication that way. 

[Sk8man]

Probably the best idea until you can find a reliable source. At least you could get going while you look at the other alternatives....something will turn up Jason. Keep on plugging and exploring options.It will all come together...perseverance always pays off in the end.

[ifishy]

people at work catch me muttering about vendors all the time it tough in a small buisness when you are doing it all on your own versus a larger company where we have a team that can concentrate on supply chain and a whole different group that can worry about manfacture.  My dad ran a small buisness for many years as a distributer and there was always problems with getting product from manufature to end customer and the better he was at it the easier it looked and the more customers would think they could skip the distributer and run that part themselfs. 

 

I hope if works out I look forward to seeing some of the finished goods. next time I buy some spoons i will probably contact you i like the thicker heavier wobble spoons and would definatly give the two piece spoon a try

[Great Lakes Lure Maker]

Update:

 

Metal is ordered and on its way! We should be blanking lures soon! We purchased a small amount of .060 stainless, enough to run a few thousand lures. This is different metal and from a new supplier, so we are only gonna run a small run of lures this time and see how we like the product. We have approx. 540 of these lures spoken for, so we needed to get this process moving, and this was the quickest way to get some product out and buy some time to iron out the rest of the details. 

 

We should have GL4's  ready by the time fall copper pulling season is good. 

 

As soon as the metal is here and were blanking lures, I will post some pics of this process. Hopefully it will be soon.

 

Next step is pierce, logo and form all these blanks and send them to paint, or buff shop.  

 

Thank you,

Jason

[Great Lakes Lure Maker]

people at work catch me muttering about vendors all the time it tough in a small buisness when you are doing it all on your own versus a larger company where we have a team that can concentrate on supply chain and a whole different group that can worry about manfacture.  My dad ran a small buisness for many years as a distributer and there was always problems with getting product from manufature to end customer and the better he was at it the easier it looked and the more customers would think they could skip the distributer and run that part themselfs. 

 

I hope if works out I look forward to seeing some of the finished goods. next time I buy some spoons i will probably contact you i like the thicker heavier wobble spoons and would definatly give the two piece spoon a try

Thank you! 

I have some Oakie Doakies available now (the double lure). limited colors, but more are in the paint and buff shop now. Just need to find the time to get them finished, but I can take orders that can be filled quickly. Heavy troll lures are on their way soon, as the metal was just ordered today. If your interested, pm me your email and I will send you color's, sizes, and prices. 

 

Jason

[Great Lakes Lure Maker]

Update:

 

Metal arrived this week, and we set dies yesterday and ran 3 each as a test run. 1 each I got to keep, the other 2 went to Quality control to be checked and recorded, a couple changes were made and now we have product quality control established, at least for these 3 lures. 

 

I was pleased with the metal we got it was just what we expected, so holding out until getting what we wanted paid off. 

 

First lure we set and ran was the Great Lakes #4. 

 

Everything went well here and were running this lure as I type this post. 

 

Second lure we set and ran was the Silver Soldier. Things did not go as well with this one. The punch got bent some how and is now in the tooling room being cut apart and i'm waiting to here what our options are for fixing it. (it was brand new!)

 

If you look carefuly you can see "stress" marks in the metal. The punch is striking the stock at an angle and also fitting into the die at an angle. Now the clearences have been ruined and the result is a very heavy burr left behind from the stamping. 

 

Third lure was the Keuka Wobbler. Again, everything went well with the KW and they are being made right now. 

 

As you can see here, all the metal has a PVC tape on one side. This protects it from scratches during the MFG process. Tape always on the down side protects it while being slid thru the dies. 

 

So by this afternoon we will have all our #4's and KW's we ordered and maybe in a few days the SS also. Unfortunatly I have to leave tonight to work out of town Thur - Fri and all next week as well, so I won't be able to do anything with them till this job is done. Next step will be Pierce, form, and logo them all. 

 

Things are begining to take shape now. Getting ready to place a tape order, once we finalize what colors we will keep, or add, and what new "schemes" we will add to our line up. Still not set on paint process's yet and were still debating the switch from "rattle cans" to air brushing. Hooks, split rings and swivels have been inventoried and an order is almost ready for them as well. We are also looking for a full time shop employee as well. Duties will include polishing lures, de burring, and other misc. piece rate work.  ( PM me if you know anyone who might be interested) 

 

Thank you,

Jason

[Sk8man]

You know Jason... this should be a real eye opener to everyone including me in terms of complaining about pricing etc. on lures and even though I've made my own crude home made spoons in the past (without quality control ) the information you've presented here sheds a much different light on things for me and really highlights all the work (and steps) that go into making good lures from"scratch"  and it is not the "easy money" deal that some folks may have thought.....very informative. Thanks. I've witnessed the effectiveness of your lures first hand and my hat is off to you for hanging in there with all the frustrations involved in getting your business up and running and the supply factors beyond your control etc.  Les

Edited August 21, 2014 by Sk8man

[Great Lakes Lure Maker]

Thanks les. Thats partly the reason I started this post. There is a lot of steps to producing lures from rolls of metal to completed product and I thought it would be an interesting and informative topic. Since were starting back up and overcoming the initial set backs you encounter, I thought this would be a good topic for anyone who may have wondered what it takes to mfg fishing lures. It's a "labor of love", cause if you don't have a passion for it, there are easier ways to make a living.

If I wasn't dependant on the income from my other business, I would jump right into this full time, and things would move along a little more timely, but for now its a slow progression. Maybe by next year I can sell my business and take this on full time. I hope!

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[Great Lakes Lure Maker]

Update:

 

Silver soldier die was not taken apart like I asked. Instead, they Sharpened it again, about .100... Ran about 70 lures and broke it! Broke the top fin off of it!!  Wow, are you kidding???? $2,400 to cut a new punch and die. $1,500 to shoe it!!! We will now have $10,000 or more into this lure. One we have never sold, nor do we know will be a seller, but we put a lot of faith into this lure.... Hmmm, this decision isnt going to be easy! Pull it from the line up, or fix it, and continue to bet on this horse! 

 

Some of the apprehension comes from knowing this lure was meant to commemorate a line of lure's we plan to make in todays "form",but retain their history. Something different in todays thinking. A lure you know is and was a  collectible, but made today with modern speed advancements in mind.

 

Hmmm.... some input would be appreciated. Ditch the lure,or run it???

 

thank you,

Jason

[letsfish2day]

Update:

Silver soldier die was not taken apart like I asked. Instead, they Sharpened it again, about .100... Ran about 70 lures and broke it! Broke the top fin off of it!! Wow, are you kidding???? $2,400 to cut a new punch and die. $1,500 to shoe it!!! We will now have $10,000 or more into this lure. One we have never sold, nor do we know will be a seller, but we put a lot of faith into this lure.... Hmmm, this decision isnt going to be easy! Pull it from the line up, or fix it, and continue to bet on this horse!

Some of the apprehension comes from knowing this lure was meant to commemorate a line of lure's we plan to make in todays "form",but retain their history. Something different in todays thinking. A lure you know is and was a collectible, but made today with modern speed advancements in mind.

Hmmm.... some input would be appreciated. Ditch the lure,or run it???

thank you,

Jason

Thats a lot of money. But I guess you know the lure...you'll need to sell a lot to get your money back...I bought a few of your 44 spoons of ya a couple months ago...have had good luck with them...follow your gut...I wish you the best...My buddy and I enjoyed chatting with you and your dad

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[Nautitroller]

Well math says you will have to sell about 3000-3500 lures if you net $3 a piece just to break even.

Tough deal...

did ya get my email?

John

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[Great Lakes Lure Maker]

Well math says you will have to sell about 3000-3500 lures if you net $3 a piece just to break even.

Tough deal...

did ya get my email?

John

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Yes I did. Been in Rochester last 2 wks building a pole barn. I think the best thing to do is just meet up at the shop. I got some new colors were trying, and you seem to like white, as I do, so lets talk, and I will get you what you want.

Jason.

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[Nautitroller]

Sounds good just throw me a pm with location and date I will see what I can do.

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[Great Lakes Lure Maker]

Update 8/29:

 

Picked up the KW's and the GL#4's today. The blanks are perfect! I had a lot to do today, but I managed to form and polish (1) GL4 and it came out just as expected, Beautiful. With the exception of the New Silver Soldier, we now have all the blanks we need to begin making lures. Now we need to finish inventory of packaging, tape, paint, hooks, swivels, etc, so we can get this process rolling. 

 

As far as the Silver Soldier die:  I was expecting my Dad to handle it worse than he did. I have been making lures with my Dad and fishing with him for over 35 yrs now, and I was expecting him to tell me that the die left the shop working, and it will come back working, figure it out. The fact the die was brand new, and we might have run a 100 lure's with it before allowing another company to use it to blank lures for us, I was expecting him to tell me it was their fault, and they owe us a new one. I was so sure that would be his position about this, I waited till I got back in town to tell him about it personally, rather than over the phone. Well, as it turns out, he handled it quite well. I suggested we go look at the die and see what went wrong with it, before we pass any blame, or come to any other conclusions. When we arrived at the tool shop, we were pleasently supprised it was being run by a guy who used to work for us part time making lures. He also was a tool and die maker and had done some tooling for us in the past. This eased the whole situation, and made this process painless. Upon inspection, It was very obvious that the die was not put together properly, and some welding that was done to it caused it to warp and this was the reason that it failed. So, the conclusion was to have a new one made and finish running the lures we ordered. We will have a new die in 2-3 wks. The price for completion was quoted as $4,000, we negotiated it to $2,500 complete. We already have spent a lot of money on this lures form die, and the new logo die, which will "coin" the lure with the name, and since it originally had a gill plate and fins stamped into it, we also had them added to it as well. It will resemble the original version, first introduced in 1854, exactly, except for the form, which has been changed so that it will run well at todays speeds. This is the first of a line of new lures we will re-introduce in the near future. 

 

All said and done, today was a good day for us, and looking forward to gettting this under way. 

 

Thank you,

Jason

[Great Lakes Lure Maker]

Thats a lot of money. But I guess you know the lure...you'll need to sell a lot to get your money back...I bought a few of your 44 spoons of ya a couple months ago...have had good luck with them...follow your gut...I wish you the best...My buddy and I enjoyed chatting with you and your dad

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I'm glad to hear that. Strangely enough, my Dad asked me today if I had heard from you, and I was able to tell him that I had. Glad to hear your doing good with our lures. Allways nice to hear that!  We also enjoyed having you at the shop, and looking forward to seeing you again.

 

Thank you, 

Jason

[Sk8man]

Great news Jason and about time you guys caught a break.....lets hope this is a good omen for the future.

[Great Lakes Lure Maker]

I haven't had the time to keep this updated on a timely basis, so this is a "catch up" post on the progression so far. 

 

I have been trying to purchase hooks from Mustad, but their customer service is poor. Several un answered calls and emails and when I did get someone to call it was a regional sales person who suggested I purchase their hooks through Triple S. Not really what I was looking for. I'm looking to purchase at least 5,000 to 10,000 hooks and the price is .24 each! That isn't much better than the 100 hook price. So I call Triple S, talked to 2 people who had no knowledge of the hooks and the guy I needed to speak to was off. So I leave a message on his voice mail, 2 weeks ago and no return call. This was my last attempt to do business with Mustad. Next up, Eagle Claw and VMC. I got the same customer service from Eagle Claw, but VMC responded to my email within seconds. Jackie Kiklas, vp of finance and marketing for VMC has responded to every email almost right away. Now this is the type of service I am looking for. Samples have been mailed to me, i'm just waiting to see how their hooks compare to what I am looking for. VMC 9171ps is the main hook we are  looking at, were also looking at 9626 in the #4 and #6 sizes. 

 

Painting process was a real obstacle to overcome and I believe I have it under control now. I had to go back to the lengthy process of de greasing with acetone, wire wheeling the surface, was down with Dawn dish soap, bake, then primer. They set for 2 full days to cure, then can be painted and clear coated. This is exactly how we did it years ago, and it produced a lure I could bend all day and not peal. I used to do this when I was cold calling new stores. I would take their favorite lure (purchase it of course) and bend it and the paint usually cracks and falls off. Then I would take our lure I have been  bending all day, and bend it some more. Never did I have our paint fail. That's the quality were looking for in our painted products and I believe we have finally got it nailed down. 

 

The shop was a wreck. It has become my family's storage area for the last 10 years or more. It took me days to clean and organize the shop and get it back in a condition to begin manufacturing product. She is now ready to begin production once again. Re wiring the entire shop is on the "to do " list, soon. 

 

Yesterday I filed my DBA in Schuyler County. My girlfriend is the Deputy County Clerk, so I was able to have her do the paper work for me. That was a satisfying experience we were able to share together! 

 

So we are now officially open for business. There are still obstacles to overcome, but we will deal with them as come. Here are some pics I have taken along the way.

 

Silver Soldier die #1 broke. If you look above the dorsal fin, you can see the first repair. This time the other fins chipped, and it was producing a pretty heavy burr from the first repair.

Silver Soldier die #2 broke. This one is currently being repaired while we have another one made.

Some pics of the shop.

Paint failures.

Successful paint attempt.

Making the Great Lakes #4

 

 

Some finished products.

 

Great Lakes #35, fire tiger w/ eye

Silver Soldier, Blue Mullet test paint

Keuka Wobbler, Fire Tiger.

Painting Fire Tiger w/ glo cup

 

Random Paint scheme trials.

 

Officially open for business!

 

I will be ending this post and moving the topic to Tackle and Techniques forum when I post about this topic in the future.

 

Thank you,

Jason Oakes