Aluminum boat owners riggers mounted on the gunnels

[CaptSpike]

I have a Lund Sport angler. I run Cannon riggers on Berts swivel mount bases in tracks mounted on the gunnel about a foot up from the stern. One thing I noticed when running my rigger is I only dare turn them out one increment. Any further and I can see the gunnel flexing (twisting). When I run heavier weights (13-15lbs) this is even more noticable. Is anyone running the heavy weights with the riggers mounted to the gunnels like this rotated out 90 degrees? I'm now contemplating a board between the two gunnels just to help anchor the two sides to each other and running the riggers out the sides that way.

I'm hoping I don't need to do that in order to run the riggers out further. So figured I'd ask here if anyone else has done this or seen what I am refering to. I can shoot a video of what I'm talking about if it would help.

 

Maybe I'm just to over cautious???

 

Spike

Edited July 27, 2014 by CaptSpike

[MCF]

I have never run any weight over 10 lbs for the most part.  I have owned Starcrafts, a Sylvan and now a Sea Nymph and with the rigger run at 90 degrees out(straight out from the gunnel) all of the aluminum boats I have owned have had some flex but they all had aluminum going across the front of the transom well, not like the fish-n-ski-boats now which are almost open to the transom.  I also think that Lund also has the narrow gunnel on the top so you may have to do some reinforcement.  I know there is probably foam under it but a backer board or plate is an option to spread the stress out from just the rigger mount.   

[Jammin]

I've had mine on my star craft for 14 years but the swivels are bolted directly no tracks they flex a little no cracks yet prob wouldn't hurt to put a plate underside

[sammyslayer]

I have a brand new Lund and tried track mounted riggers. DO NOT TRUST THEM! There is too much flex. I lost a rigger last year when the mount broke at the base. Cannon replaced everything, but I learned my lesson. My tracks are reinforced on the backside with 5/8" marine grade plywood with very large washers on the bolts. They will still flex off the gunnel. I hard mounted 2 Scottys behind the tracks using the same backing and they are solid as a rock. I run 14# weights with no issues. I have 1 track mount cannon I use as a 3rd rigger when needed. I remove it from the mount every time I run or transport, and never run more than a 10# weight off it. The only thing that may stop the flex with the tracks is maybe adding more support bolts directly under the rigger mount, but in my opinion just hard mount them to the gunnel.

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Edited July 28, 2014 by sammyslayer

[CaptSpike]

OK I guess I didn't explain it right. My tracks are mounted thru the extrusion that lund uses for a gunnel. It isn't the track flexing it is the whole gunnel twisting/flexing when I put the rigger out 90 degrees or even less (more than one increment of the swivel mount). Backing it up won't make a difference as the part I'm backing to is what is twisting.

I'll try and shoot a video of it. I think if I ran a track between the two sides (across the back of the boat) it may reduce/eliminate the flexing?????

 

Spike

[Sk8man]

Considering the potential torque of downriggers you should probably always have a supportive backing underneath. If it were me I'd have a plate of 1/4 inch aluminum under neath extending past the points of connection aways to disperse the torque. Some guys use wood but I think metal is a sturdier alternative. I've related it before but I knew of a guy fishing a derby on Seneca whose ball hung up on bottom and it ripped a section right out of his gunwale (glass boat) and the downrigger had to be recovered by a diver.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Sk8man

[sammyslayer]

OK I guess I didn't explain it right. My tracks are mounted thru the extrusion that lund uses for a gunnel. It isn't the track flexing it is the whole gunnel twisting/flexing when I put the rigger out 90 degrees or even less (more than one increment of the swivel mount). Backing it up won't make a difference as the part I'm backing to is what is twisting.

I'll try and shoot a video of it. I think if I ran a track between the two sides (across the back of the boat) it may reduce/eliminate the flexing?????

Spike

I understand completely. The gunnel is what flexes on mine as well. Backing it will add some rigidity, but will not eliminate the issue. Why do you not want to mount them directly to the gunnel? Hard mounting them seems less obtrusive than adding a support track across the width of the boat, unless you need the extra track.

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Edited July 28, 2014 by sammyslayer

[FleetTracker]

I have a brand new Lund and tried track mounted riggers. DO NOT TRUST THEM! There is too much flex. I lost a rigger last year when the mount broke at the base. Cannon replaced everything, but I learned my lesson. My tracks are reinforced on the backside with 5/8" marine grade plywood with very large washers on the bolts. They will still flex off the gunnel. I hard mounted 2 Scottys behind the tracks using the same backing and they are solid as a rock. I run 14# weights with no issues. I have 1 track mount cannon I use as a 3rd rigger when needed. I remove it from the mount every time I run or transport, and never run more than a 10# weight off it. The only thing that may stop the flex with the tracks is maybe adding more support bolts directly under the rigger mount, but in my opinion just hard mount them to the gunnel.

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hahaha sorry for laughing but I remember the day this happened we were behind you headed in to pillar point from stony.  Still awesome that Cannon replaced everything with new.  

[CaptSpike]

I understand completely. The gunnel is what flexes on mine as well. Backing it will add some rigidity, but will not eliminate the issue. Why do you not want to mount them directly to the gunnel? Hard mounting them seems less obtrusive than adding a support track across the width of the boat, unless you need the extra track.

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The swivel mounts I am using are designed for tracks. I like the option of complete removal to a clean gunnel. 

The extrusion of my gunnel has like three different layers you drill thru to get thru the gunnel. I used fender washers bottom side. They will not pull thru, that I know by backing my rigger into my storage garage. The swivel mount got destroyed the track and gunnel remained in tact. I now remove the riggers before backing into the garage...

 

Spike

[sammyslayer]

The swivel mounts I am using are designed for tracks. I like the option of complete removal to a clean gunnel.

The extrusion of my gunnel has like three different layers you drill thru to get thru the gunnel. I used fender washers bottom side. They will not pull thru, that I know by backing my rigger into my storage garage. The swivel mount got destroyed the track and gunnel remained in tact. I now remove the riggers before backing into the garage...

Spike

Ok, that is different than the design of the gunnel on a tyee. Just food for thought with the pic....

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[CaptSpike]

I see where your mount came undone. My swivel base had similar design where the screws ripped out of the partial thread. Luckily it was from backing into my shelter frame and I didn't loose the rigger. Your gunnels are way wider than mine. My track just about spans my gunnel. I'll get a video up this weekend. For now I'll just use them as I have been with no issues yet.

 

Spike

[LongLine]

You'd save yourself a lot of anxiety if you use a rigg'r board.  Mount your rigg'rs on the board.  Have you board screw down into the tracks if you like.  Remove the whole thing when/if you want a "clean" gunwale.

 

Tom B.

(LongLine)

[Jammin]

If you backed it into the garage and tore off the rigger you know what the weak point is its not the boat gunwale

[TileMan Dan]

Hard to argue with that logic

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[Sk8man]

[Sk8man]

I think that if the aluminum plate I suggested is an EXACT FIT width wise and it extends close to the length of the track it shouldn't have any "leeway" to flex.

[CaptSpike]

You'd save yourself a lot of anxiety if you use a rigg'r board.  Mount your rigg'rs on the board.  Have you board screw down into the tracks if you like.  Remove the whole thing when/if you want a "clean" gunwale.

 

Tom B.

(LongLine)

Thats what I was thinking but figured Id see if anyone else had solved the problem that way before spending the $$. I haven't had great luck with recent purchases, lol.

Spike

[CaptSpike]

If you backed it into the garage and tore off the rigger you know what the weak point is its not the boat gunwale

True but the forces were in an entirely different direction. When backing up the force was along the gunnel where it is strongest not laterally. So it isn't a good judgement. When I make the video you will see it clearly. I'll shoot it Saturday if it isn't raining out.

 

Thanks to all for your input I value everyones opinion and it's great to have a bunch of different views on the issue.

 

Spike

Edited July 29, 2014 by CaptSpike

[DJ 17]

I run  12 lb torpedo weights on my riggers and they point out 90 deg on penn swivel bases.  I reinforced the gunnel with an 18" piece of pressure treated 2x6 and they seem to work just fine.

[Thun]

I wanted to mount a board across the gunnels but my oldest didn't like the idea. He suggested running them up the sides so we can try to run four riggers. The gunnels are wide, 11" with rod lockers which prohibit me from mounting tracks. I tried the built in Versa Track with rigger mounts and that was a waste of time and money. Dukdog suggested speed rail for the stanchions and I'm glad I listened to him. The boards are 8/4 white oak and I backed them with 6x6" 3/16 stainless plates. Set screws in the flanges unscrew to remove the boards for trailering and when the boat is covered. I'm close to 300 lbs, ok, I am 300 lbs and I was standing right in the middle of the board last week while we were tied to the dock. Thank you Dukdog!

 

 

[Ivan]

We have a Lund but it has the wider gunwales.  I haven't used our sport track except for cup holders, etc because I was concerned about the durability/strength and there weren't many mounting options for the sport track back in 07 when we bought our boat. We mounted track to the top of the gunwales and backed them with 1/4" aluminum plates under the gunwale.  Very solid, but I can see/understand by the way your gunwales are, that probably won't be an option for you.

 

I saw a Lund Pro-V that had a nice downrigger mount on the sport track. His base attached to the inside sport track and over the gunwale to the sport track on the outside of the boat (where you would put your snaps for a trailer cover without having to drill into the boat).  That looked like a nice set up, but I'm not sure if your model Lund has the sport track inside and outside the boat, and your gunwales are way more narrow than a Pro-V.

 

I think your full trolling bar idea, all the way across the beam of you boat may help.  You may also call this guy and discuss your dilemma.  Best Lund sport track mounting options I've seen.  He might be able to come up with a custom solution for you.

 

http://www.ciscofishingsystemsltd.com/

[CaptSpike]

http://www.nhanglers.com/Gallery/Fishing/index.php/Open-water/Freshwater/IMG_0155

 

Here is a good picture of my set up. As you see I have extruded aluminum gunnels. The angle you see the rigger set at is the furthest out I can run without seeing significant twisting of the gunnel. The torque of the rigger in this position is more inline with the gunnel making it sturdier. When you rotate the rigger out the torque is now applied over the thinner area on the gunnel.

I was hoping a board mounted between the tracks on the port and starboard side would eliminate the twisting because the board would be anchored latteraly across the boat. Negating the twisting. I'd hate to invest the $$ and end up with the same results.....

 

Spike

[Oncebitten]

By mounting a board (or track) across the boat and attaching it to both gunnels, you will solve the problem.  It also wouldn't hurt to move the mounting point of the riggers inboard 6" or so, not directly over the gunnels if you choose that option. 

 

It's a solution, but I'm not sure it's the only solution.  I would talk to Dave at Cisco and get his input.  He knows his stuff. 

[Sk8man]

One of the problems may be the pedestal mount.... the higher up you go from the surface of the gunwale with the downrigger extended laterally the more increased the torque transferred to the gunwale surface.  You may want to try using them with a low profile swivel base (such as the one Cannon makes and drill your own holes in a plate to fit.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Sk8man

[CaptSpike]

Well I just checked out the rigger mounting boards and went out to look the boat over. Where I have the rigger mount now it is about one foot forward of the stern. Draw a line between the two tracks and I can't tilt my motor up............... For me to go further forward I would hit my cleats and the fuel fill on the starboard side. My forward track that holds my ratcheting rod holders is as far back as I can go due to the same fuel fill and cleat. So They are the next possible location for the board. That is 21" forward from where my riggers are mounted now................Which then looks to interfer with my vertical rod holder along the back of the boat. All in all it probably isn't much further forward than normal boat layouts but the Sport angler gives you so much access at the stern I'd hate to negate that with a rigger board further forward than needed. So I think I'm just going to leave it as is.

Here is a picture that shows the rear rigger tracks, the forward tracks along with the stock vertical rod holders in front of the motor.

http://www.nhanglers.com/Gallery/Fishing/index.php/Open-water/Freshwater/IMG_0283

 

Spike