Kings...what's up this year?

[Yankee Troller]

I think the traffic on this site represents a very very very very small portion of the total amount of people who fish Lake Ontario and even a smaller portion of the people who fish tributaries. They use other sites 

 

 

Also many people live nowhere near the lake so volunteering isnt much of an option

 

The trib guys are all over "other" forums. I don't think many come here. This is a Lake fishing site for the most part.

 

Totally disagree. Unless your out off state, you must be in a vacuum if you haven't heard of pen projects. Most guys just wont put in any effort to at least do some homework and find someone to contact about helping. I've been involved since the first pen went in at Sandy and its the same guys every year. Lake guys.

 

I know at the Oak we have people that come from PA to help with the pens. I personally help more at the Genny, than the Oak, since I live 5 minutes from there. However, at both ports ALL I see are Lake guys.

 

Here's my take - The Lake guys and the Stream guys have different opinions. The Stream guys help improve stream habitat in hopes of a natural fishery some day. The Lake guys are the ones helping with the fish in the pens to keep the stocking program going. DEC study finds almost 2:1 that Pen fish do better than direct stocked. I wish we had no natural reproduction, and we increased Salmon stocking. That's the only way to control predictor/prey ratios. Natural fish are the unknown and can't be counted on!

[eatsleeptrout]

Unfortunately some people have to work and the time frames don't work out. I personally took time off from work to help out putting in the pens at sandy this year and the the launch got changed because of the weather. So, while the majority of volunteers may be primarily lake guys, it's not like trib guys don't give a ****. Some of us have other obligations that take precedence.

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[skipper19]

http://www.lakeontariounited.com/fishing-hunting/index.php?/topic/9605-Oak-Orchard-Pen-Rearing#entry52578

Here are the 2009 future trophies we all enjoyed around the Oak last year and 2012...

Cent frum my notso smart fone

[GAMBLER]

Unfortunately some people have to work and the time frames don't work out. I personally took time off from work to help out putting in the pens at sandy this year and the the launch got changed because of the weather. So, while the majority of volunteers may be primarily lake guys, it's not like trib guys don't give a ****. Some of us have other obligations that take precedence.

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Everyone has to work but we all find time to fish. Not a good excuse by any means. If we all sit back and let the dec do the work, they will do what cheapest and easiest for them.

[eatsleeptrout]

I help in plenty of other ways. Wasn't asking if my reason for not helping out with the pen rearing was acceptable. Just saying there are reasons why people don't turn up. I take part in plenty of clean ups, etc. Where are all you guys!? I could say the same thing. Not looking to start a fight. Just trying to illustrate that we all help out where we can and it's absurd to call out a group of guys because they prefer to help with a dec initiative different than you.

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[eatsleeptrout]

Sorry, I just thought we we all on the same team in the long run anyways.

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[tiogafishaddict]

Plenty of lake guys are also trib guys.... And all around sportsmen

Edited August 12, 2014 by tiogafishaddict

[TileMan Dan]

This was a good thread until the pissin match started.

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[King Davy]

Yesterday I talked with a good friend who works at the Altmar Salmon River Hatchery. They are assisting USGS to live capture some Atlantic Salmon pairs up near the hatchery, that they took back to Tunison to have them spawn naturally, in hopes of putting that brood stock back into the river. They had to push the Kings out of the way of the traps that have already run to the LFZ near the hatchery.  

 

Not unusual to have King Salmon there in early Aug, but what was noticeable from my buddy's vantage point was how dark there were. Many times the early arrivers are still very bright. These fish looked like they had been in there awhile.  Water temps truly haven't exceeded the high 60's this year in the river, (yesterday was 67 degress). I can only go by the pictures on this site, but seemed like I saw dark fish in July, and very dark fish for early Aug. Just wondering if the crazy conditions this year are maturing some of the Salmon faster, and they are staging very near shore (10 to 30 foot of water)...in warmer temps and not being fished to.

[bandrus1]

Yesterday I talked with a good friend who works at the Altmar Salmon River Hatchery. They are assisting USGS to live capture some Atlantic Salmon pairs up near the hatchery, that they took back to Tunison to have them spawn naturally, in hopes of putting that brood stock back into the river. They had to push the Kings out of the way of the traps that have already run to the LFZ near the hatchery.  

 

Not unusual to have King Salmon there in early Aug, but what was noticeable from my buddy's vantage point was how dark there were. Many times the early arrivers are still very bright. These fish looked like they had been in there awhile.  Water temps truly haven't exceeded the high 60's this year in the river, (yesterday was 67 degress). I can only go by the pictures on this site, but seemed like I saw dark fish in July, and very dark fish for early Aug. Just wondering if the crazy conditions this year are maturing some of the Salmon faster, and they are staging very near shore (10 to 30 foot of water)...in warmer temps and not being fished to.

 

 

There are a lot of guys fishing 60-100 for browns... if the salmon were stacked in tight we would have heard reports of those guys getting into kings heavy at some point

[King Davy]

Yup one would think....part of my point is that from 500 foot of water to 11 miles up a river...there are Kings.....or in other words spread out all over. They'll be no hiding them in the next 60 days, that's for sure. They'll either be home to spawn...or not.

[Yankee Troller]

Rochester guys are fishing 30-40' of water for Browns. No mature kings in there.

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[skipper19]

With all the reports and some very sophisticated electronic finding equipment, it is hard for me to believe this season, the normal tens of thousands running the Salmon River and stacking heavily in Orwell to the ladders. Yes they are scattered at all depths, but sparce in density. I hope I'm scratching my head and baffled by the hugest run we have witnessed, but if there is not...I hope some brilliant science will determine why. Weather related incidents are NOT affecting any other fish or invasive species by observation or report I have come across. Browns are warmer water species. ..steelhead are tolerance of many temps and there have been stellar catches of them every where...so why are kings the only anomaly in the grand picture? Weather did little to affect fleas, gobie, alewife, smelt, Lamprey, or mussels. Why or how could it only make kings the least caught of a most sought after fish? Ecologically the water in my experience has changed in color is all I have noticed.

Still hoping to scratch my head...I'm thinking too much if that happens. .😞

Mark

Cent frum my notso smart fone

[bandrus1]

think future brown and steelhead numbers will be impacted by the numbers of charters having to target them this year? 

[King Davy]

One other thing....If you have staging fish who intend to run a river....especially in the staging areas under 100 foot of water, and they stopped being able to retain food for nourishment because their stomach's have collapsed (looks like a deflated baloon)...while they don't lose their instinct to strike at a bait fish, or in the case of sportfishing lures and baits, they aren't very bite friendly. So as these fish mature and if for what ever reason they are maturing faster this year possibly do to conditions....it's also a possible factor that you have a lot of fish not actively feeding.  

 

I've cleaned salmon with deflated stomachs in July, some years when the salmon fishing was tough and fish seemed to mature faster. The other thing that's a head scratcher in some ways that if there was a serious imbalance of Predator to prey fish for King Salmon knowing what huge feeding machines they are for the three or four years they roam open water, why aren't we seeing more mid 30's to high 30's fish. In the mid 90's to early 2000's when we had less Salmon loaded, we had many years of big fish. Which proved that we didn't have the balance we could afford, and stocking was increased, however the days of high 30's and 40+ pounders started to vanish which you would expect.  More Kings at the table. But maybe I can answer my own question, because there seems by all reports to be an abundance of 1's and 2's. However hard to believe young fish are way out competing their older more mature agressive brothers ans sisters

 

Might just be a bad year class that rebounds with these younger fish. Don't discount the fact that spawn ready fish aren't all that bitey ....if we have an inordinant larger group of early mature fish....they'll give you fits in trying to catch them.

[bandrus1]

But we always catch fish in less than 100 fow in late AUG.

 

Odds are is for whatever reason it is a down year class and on top of that we had a very cold year

 

The last 2-3 has produced many many very large kings 

[Yankee Troller]

I've been on the "We've lost a year class" bus for about a month now. After fishing the Oak, the North shore, the bar, and my brother fishing the East end they are no where to be found! We've burned A LOT of gas this Summer looking for them and have fished 30' out to the middle of the lake on both sides. 

[bandrus1]

what year was the HUGE flood on the salmon river?

[King Davy]

To Bandrus...I think you could expect an impact on the brown trout and Steelhead numbers in the river returns....and it's not just all on the Charter fleet. Many rec's will probably keep more of those fish as well if they intend to fill their coolers with fish. Fish creel census for the first part of the boat season showed again steller salmon fish catching numbers, and next highest were steelhead. Now with more anglers targeting fish off shore ....even targeting salmon steelhead by-catch will go through the roof.

 

In fact I just looked at the chart. the Avg King Salmon per boat April 15 to June 30 was 1.3 per boat...last year 1.5. The Steelhead number actually was WAY up from last year from 0.5 avg to almost 1.5. So the open water fishing fleet has been catching a ton of steelhead, and now probably that number jumps even higher. So I'd say there will be an impact.

 

The harvested numbers for the big three April 15 to June 30 - 11,200 Kings, 11,110 Browns, and 7,500 steelhead. BTW the king harvest was only topped by 2012 when over 12K were harvested in the same time frame....all the way back to  1985 through 2013 Avg.

[TileMan Dan]

2010  Im thinking it could be a contributing factor this year

[bandrus1]

To Bandrus...I think you could expect an impact on the brown trout and Steelhead numbers in the river returns....and it's not just all on the Charter fleet. Many rec's will probably keep more of those fish as well if they intend to fill their coolers with fish. Fish creel census for the first part of the boat season showed again steller salmon fish catching numbers, and next highest were steelhead. Now with more anglers targeting fish off shore ....even targeting salmon steelhead by-catch will go through the roof.

 

In fact I just looked at the chart. the Avg King Salmon per boat April 15 to June 30 was 1.3 per boat...last year 1.5. The Steelhead number actually was WAY up from last year from 0.5 avg to almost 1.5. So the open water fishing fleet has been catching a ton of steelhead, and now probably that number jumps even higher. So I'd say there will be an impact.

 

The harvested numbers for the big three April 15 to June 30 - 11,200 Kings, 11,110 Browns, and 7,500 steelhead. BTW the king harvest was only topped by 2012 when over 12K were harvested in the same time frame....all the way back to  1985 through 2013 Avg.

 

 

sorry I didnt mean to single out charters.. I meant lake fishermen in general

[hawkeye625]

A couple of us had this conversation at the hotel in the Fall of last year and again this spring.  Out of 5 or 6 boats most of us caught very few teen age fish last year.  Sure seemed to carry over into matures this year.  

 

Hate to say it but I'm starting to believe we did loose a year class.  

[bandrus1]

2010  Im thinking it could be a contributing factor this year

 

 

im with ya on this one

[skipper19]

I don't think a higher target rate of fishing browns and steelhead will deplete population in the lake by much. The size limits on steelhead and 1 fish out of the tribs plus I believe that brownies and steelhead are more successful natural spawning fish. They also live longer natural lives.

Last year's steelhead looked malnutritioned. Skinny long and oversized heads. This year some fat and heavy specimens.

It's likely that some more mature trout will be removed from the natural spawning by more active targeting them in the lake. As a whole I think it is no more pressure than the mature fish receive all year long...and more particularly while these fish are in spawn mode.

I wonder if size limits on salmon more than 15 inches would help? Works for antler limits on deer!...I know bad comparisons cause we only hunt deer during their spawning season! Lol!

But 15 inches when the fish is capable of 40ish! It could help a year class come in the future..??

Cent frum my notso smart fone

[skipper19]

I don't think a higher target rate of fishing browns and steelhead will deplete population in the lake by much. The size limits on steelhead and 1 fish out of the tribs plus I believe that brownies and steelhead are more successful natural spawning fish. They also live longer natural lives.

Last year's steelhead looked malnutritioned. Skinny long and oversized heads. This year some fat and heavy specimens.

It's likely that some more mature trout will be removed from the natural spawning by more active targeting them in the lake. As a whole I think it is no more pressure than the mature fish receive all year long...and more particularly while these fish are in spawn mode.

I wonder if size limits on salmon more than 15 inches would help? Works for antler limits on deer!...I know bad comparisons cause we only hunt deer during their spawning season! Lol!

But 15 inches when the fish is capable of 40ish! It could help a year class come in the future..??

Cent frum my notso smart fone