Super long dipsey Leads

[Yankee Troller]

I purposely ran one long leader n one short the last month of the season. 5 feet compared to 10. The longer out fished the short 3 to 1.

 

So Pete, are you saying you caught a total of 4 fish last season?!?!?!?

[on the lam]

Well yea Rick, 4 kings, and a few lakers!!! ðŸŸðŸŸðŸŸðŸŸ lol

[vetting]

Do you have any pictures of the crazy setup mentioned above using Walker divers?

[John E Powell]

Do you have any pictures of the crazy setup mentioned above using Walker divers?

Are you asking me or someone else?

[vetting]

I was asking you John.  Its a great description but Im sure we could all benefit from some photos.   

[John E Powell]

I'm out of town for the weekend, will try and add a photo some time early next week.

[TyeeTanic]

So just learned this from the pros. I longer lead from dipsey to spin doctor may not benefit for the stealth aspect.

Rather, what is happening is with the longer leads the spin doctor can sweep in much bigger circles, which imposes much

more action on the fly/bait.

 

Interesting - think of the dipsey as an anchor in the water, and if you have a real short lead to the SD, it can't really make

a big rotation in the water because the leash is short.  If you lengthen the leash, you allow much more freedom for that SD

to rotate.

[KING ME]

Slide divers won't get down to the 100+ feet we fish out here, 50 degree temps routinely are below 100' on Lake Ontario. I use slide divers for the top 50' for Spring S & T fishing, or for walleyes, & they work great here.

 

Have a great day!

 

John

yes a slide diver will reach 100 depths if you run wire line. Slide diver/wire rods have put ALOT of fish in the boat for us. We have to wire rods rigged up just for this set up. Been running them with wire since early 2003.

[momay4000]

So just learned this from the pros. I longer lead from dipsey to spin doctor may not benefit for the stealth aspect.

Rather, what is happening is with the longer leads the spin doctor can sweep in much bigger circles, which imposes much

more action on the fly/bait.

Interesting - think of the dipsey as an anchor in the water, and if you have a real short lead to the SD, it can't really make

a big rotation in the water because the leash is short. If you lengthen the leash, you allow much more freedom for that SD

to rotate.

No way - the arc of rotation is determined by the spin doctor itself and the fluid dynamics around the blade fins.

[Sk8man]

I'm with Chris...I'd have to see a video of it to change my opinion.

[TyeeTanic]

What they are saying is that if the lead is too short, the arc of rotation is restricted and not free. It's like shortening the leash. Anyhow this comes from the LOTSA salmon seminar that just passed, and stated by the speakers.

[momay4000]

What they are saying is that if the lead is too short, the arc of rotation is restricted and not free. It's like shortening the leash. Anyhow this comes from the LOTSA salmon seminar that just passed, and stated by the speakers.

 

I don't buy it at all. The speed of the Spin Dr. going through the water and the size of the fins on the Spinny determine the arc size b/c it's limited by water friction. The length of your lead (let's say 35') doesn't mean the Spin Dr. is going to spin in a much bigger arc as you describe above.

 

I'd buy the theory that a Spinny 1/2 foot away from the Dipsy might rotate in a smaller arc than one at 8' away but I'd bet it's negligible.However,  after a certain amount of feet back from your Dipsy, the water resistance and fluid dynamics over the fins limit the size of the arc it can spin.

 It's just the way the Spin Dr. is engineered. It you want a bigger arc, you will need a much bigger Spin Dr. with much bigger fins (i.e. like 10' across).

 

Think about it - how many times have you put a Spin Dr. on your rigger - 10' behind the ball and put it down a few feet below the surface? It looks exactly the same in its rotation as if you put it only a few feet back and put your rod tip underwater with the flasher only a few feet back.

 

Prove it to me with underwater footage and I will stand corrected, but I think the speakers at LOTSA are talking against laws of physics.

 

Chris

[Gill-T]

I believe Capt. Samia posted something on his blog last year about lead length off a downrigger ball and the effect on the flasher's rotation diameter as observed on underwater camera. I believe he said it was similar to what happens with a kite when you decrease the lead length you increase the whip action......I think.

[John E Powell]

This is beginning to remind me of the recent thread on global warming / climate change.

My Latin is a little rusty but let me attempt to convey my thoughts: Si illos, non fulgebunt : eos fallere numquam fuerunt.

[momay4000]

This is beginning to remind me of the recent thread on global warming / climate change.

My Latin is a little rusty but let me attempt to convey my thoughts: Si illos, non fulgebunt : eos fallere numquam fuerunt.

 

How 'bout an English interpretation?

 

Thanks,

 

Chris

[bout time]

As RAY K. would say " it's time to get the popcorn, this one is getting good".

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[momay4000]

"To acquire knowledge, one must study; but to acquire wisdom, one must observe."
 

Marilyn vos Savant

 

No need for popcorn.....but I wouldn't mind a video so that I can learn more about this and be humbled and make myself a better fisherman.

 

Chris

[Big Water]

So if I run my spin doctor 2000' behind the dipsey, I should be able to watch it fly out of the water on every rotation. . Chris is right, the rotation will be the same as 6-8' back.

[momay4000]

So if I run my spin doctor 2000' behind the dipsey, I should be able to watch it fly out of the water on every rotation. . Chris is right, the rotation will be the same as 6-8' back.

Lmao!! Finally some voice of reason!!

[Big Water]

Lmao!! Finally some voice of reason!!

 

It's the "Appeal to Authority" fallacy.  That's why it works.

[Paul Czarnecki]

Bust out the popcorn......

Longer leader lengths, on anything, will "slow" the action of that bait down. Shorter leaders will "speed up" the action or erratic movement.

As Mark pointed out at LOTSA a longer diver leader will allow for more, albeit slower, spin doctor action. The rotation of said spin doctor can only increase to a point---that point being the maximum rotation allowed by the design of the flasher.

A longer leader allows for more lateral movement on a flasher setup as well. When running meat on a long leader, which is what Mark was illustrating, there is MUCH more overall action imparted to the entire setup than with a shorter leader.

If you need "proof" of what I'm saying put a dodger and fly on an 8' lead at 2.5. Then put the same setup on a 30' lead at the same speed. The 30' lead will maintain the nice lazy flip a dodger is supposed to have while the 8' lead will be spinning.

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[finsntins]

is that 2.5 on a fishhawk or subtroll????just kidding,but for those of you who didnt make the lotsa salmon school,there is a difference.sorry paul.

[Nautitroller]

Wouldn't it make more sense that the lead from flasher to fly would be more important than leader length to the dipsy or ball? I mean that's what they are hitting and a shorter lead means more fly action, taking the fishes temp on what they like is more important imo . Personally I like hand lining fish in from a 14' lead with snubber off my dipsy, and the same lead off my riggers. but I am not adverse to trying new things.

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[momay4000]

Bust out the popcorn......

Longer leader lengths, on anything, will "slow" the action of that bait down. Shorter leaders will "speed up" the action or erratic movement.

As Mark pointed out at LOTSA a longer diver leader will allow for more, albeit slower, spin doctor action. The rotation of said spin doctor can only increase to a point---that point being the maximum rotation allowed by the design of the flasher.

A longer leader allows for more lateral movement on a flasher setup as well. When running meat on a long leader, which is what Mark was illustrating, there is MUCH more overall action imparted to the entire setup than with a shorter leader.

If you need "proof" of what I'm saying put a dodger and fly on an 8' lead at 2.5. Then put the same setup on a 30' lead at the same speed. The 30' lead will maintain the nice lazy flip a dodger is supposed to have while the 8' lead will be spinning.

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My fingers are just starting to get a little buttery.......but my face is still clean....

 

1.) You are comparing apples to oranges (Dodger which dodges back and forth and a Spin Dr. which rotates).

2.) My argument has nothing to do with lateral movement with lead length of a dodger,(something I have no idea what would happen) but in reference to the above poster who said longer lead lengths would result in much bigger circles of rotation of a Spin Dr which would defy the laws of physics.

3.) I would agree with you that action of a spoon, hard bait, Dodger or Flasher could be dampened by a longer lead length (such as a spoon on 600' of copper vs. a spoon two feet back from a downrigger ball) because of water resistance on the line impeding the whipping action of the terminal end, but there's no way it can make a rotating flasher like a Spin Dr. spin in a noticeably bigger circle of rotation......no way

 

 

Chris

[Paul Czarnecki]

You're right Chris. As I said the spin doctor can only rotate as much as the design of the flasher will allow it to. A longer leader allows that spin doctor to cover a wider swath of water while maintaining its rotation. When you add a 6' meat rig leader to that spin doctor the water covered increases yet again.

I used the dodger comparison to illustrate how a longer lead can affect the action of a bait--not how wide a skinnier can rotate.

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