Saturday 9/27 - totally confused

[DWHJR]

I am totally confused as to my outing yesterday.  I took my parents out and was expecting to catch fish.  Not a lot but at least a few. 

 

Here is the background first.  In no way do I think of myself as an expert fisherman.  However, I am not new to fishing, nor am I new to fishing Seneca.  I am new to “catching fish†on Seneca!! Hopefully, this makes sense!!!  I am originally from the Buffalo area.  Fished a lot as a kid in Lake Erie drifting and jigging for smallmouth bass and walleye.  Also, our family used to go up to Lake Nippissing French River area every summer for 2 weeks and jig for walleye and troll for Northern Pike and Musky.   I also have some personal experience up on Lake Ontario catching steelhead and browns during outings.  I have been on many charters as well up on Lake Ontario.  I moved up to the Seneca lake area just over 4 years ago. 

 

Previous to a month ago, I caught only 2 fish on Seneca Lake in 4 years.  Yes you are reading that correctly.  Also, I have never caught a fish taking my parents out  in the last 4 years.  Now a big part of that was I was fishing “in the dark†.  I was fishing from a large pleasure boat with no electronics, etc.  Couldn’t troll down.  Basically I knew I did not have the right set up but I still tried to satisfy my fishing urges with what I had. 

 

About a month ago, I bought a new boat, a fishing boat,  that also fit our family needs  for our kids to tube, ski, etc.  I have been out weekly and have had some success catching a few lakers each time.  A big part of the learning curve is avoiding tangles!!!  Over the last few years I have slowly invested in equipment.  I have leadcores, dipsys, spoons, flasher and flies, etc.  Recently, I invested in 4 wire rods since the purchase of my boat.  Also, the boat I bought has very good electronics.

 

Here is Saturday’s 9/27 fishing report

 

Lines were in the water from 1pm to 7pm.  Started out trolling from 1pm to 4pm near Valois pt to Peach orchard, full graph many times.  Marked lots of fish particularly in 250ft of water give or take,  screen showed activity  50’ to 100’ down.  Trolled from 4pm to 7pm trolled from Severne to Long Point area.  Full graph many times in particular in 150 ft to 230 ft of water.  Graph showed fish in 50’ to 100’ range primarily.  Weeds and fleas were pretty low in both areas. Fished with 4 wire dipsys, set at different depths covering 50’ to 100’ feet  of the water column. Ran 4 wire lines out of flush mounted rod holders that are molded in the boat. One  deep rod had Flasher and fly green colored.  The other deep rod had white glow with green spoon, I did switch this out a few times as well.  Spoons used were NBK, watermelon, white glow with green, purple colors and orange colors up higher.  Using 20 lb fluorocarbon as my leaders 6’ to 8’ long.  Using mostly green dipseys size 1 with the ring on, tried blue and clear dipseys as well.  Using barrel swivels for leaders and connecting to lures.  Spoons, all different sizes, mostly stinger sizes.  Had wire line out at following and adjusted a throughout the day.  2 rods at 0 SETTING – 150’ to 210’ out.  2 rods at 2.5 setting – 150’ to 210’.  Tried different speeds 2.1 to 3.3 sog. 

 

A few questions from the group.  What am I majorly overlooking?  Am I doing something to scare the fish away?

Or at the end of the day, was it just the luck of draw and sometimes they don’t bite at all or they were not hitting wire dipseys?  But I thought for the time put in we would have at least got one.

 

Even though, we didn’t catch fish it was a beautiful weather day and more importantly an opportunity to spend time with my parents as they are getting older.

 

Any thoughts, suggestions, etc would be greatly appreciated.  Don’t worry you will not offend me.

 

Thank you for reading my extended post.

Dave

[ERABBIT]

  Using 20 lb fluorocarbon as my leaders 6’ to 8’ long. 

 Using barrel swivels for leaders and connecting to lures.  Spoons, all different sizes, mostly stinger sizes.  Had wire line out at following and adjusted a throughout the day.

Great post !!!

 

I use 10 to 8 lbs fluorocarbon leader material for my spoon leaders.....

I like a ball-bearing snap -swivel to hook to my spoons that has room for the spoon to move... 

[Nautitroller]

Great post... Mike, Nick help this guy out and me too!!! Love Seneca:wub::angry::angry:

The two things I may suggest would be longer leads on dipsy, running them farther back, and today on Cayuga it was a mag dipsy bite.. much deeper, I get about 105-110' with my wire rod back 310'. do you use inline boards for your lead cores? also you hit the lull time today for" the bite" oh one more thing no silvers today on Cayuga compared to 6 salmon yesterday...

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[FishnChef]

Check your voltage for a hot boat condition though youre not running riggers it could still be an issue

[Sk8man]

Dave,

 

First of all you are doing a lot right despite the results the fish were very finicky yesterday and we had to work like heck with minimal results too   Ditto on the 10 lb test fluoro (not Vanish though) and the ball bearing swivels etc. I would try running 1 dipsey at 200 ft out and the other at 300 (if out deep enough) out and troll 2.5 to 3.0 and consider running small to medium spoons behind the dipseys with and without the flashers or spinney and keep messing with your speeds while doing "s patterns" so that the outward and leeward sides  alternate speed wise and are not constant as they would be in trolling a straight line or diagonal. You didn't mention downriggers but yesterday our action came on sliders which suggest they may want action and short leads perhaps (rainbows and landlocks anyway).  Normally I run relatively short leads on my dipseys but I would consider stretching them out to15 or 20ft  with just the spoons behind the dipseys and hand line the fish to see if they are just "shy" My hunch is that the lighter fluoro may give the lures better action too as it is a little less "stiff"and you may even hook up with a brown too.  If after lakers try getting down to the 100 or so level (if you don't have riggers put a three way swivel on one of your wire rigs and a 24 -32 oz sinker and use cowbells and a peanut or Spin n glow  a couple feet behind it  just off bottom and at the levels you're marking the deep fish (e.g. 100 ft down)

Edited September 28, 2014 by Sk8man

[Iron Duke]

I think you have the right idea but take a few steps backwards and keep it simple sometimes less is better get comfortable with one setup then add the next... Green whites blues and orange are always go to colors for spoons flashers and flies... I was out this weekend a few different times and found the bite very tough .. Marked lots of fish but getting them to go was a different story... This lake has awesome fisherie but is the most stubborn at giving up the goods at times and right now is one of those times.. Fisherman will always start questioning themselves after a few poor outings in a row but stick with the program and it will all come together. .. I only run 3 ft leads off my dipsies and do just fine I only run flouro on my spoon dipsys and core and coppers liters and I prefer 15 lb because I can run it here and Ontario with out changing due to jumping back and forth in summer... 2.6 is a great speed to start at but sometimes a bit faster or a bit slower will also get it done depending on how active the fish are... Hope some of this helps ...

Mike

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[DWHJR]

Thank you very much for the feedback on this post and the PM's i received.  It is greatly appreciated.

 

I will move to lighter leads.  That was a very common theme.

 

Also, I should have clarified I am using barrel ball bearing swivels.  In fact, I was concerned that maybe that played into my results on Saturday as I used ball bearing swivels on both ends of my leads.  I made this change as I had a break off on my dodger fly combo the outing before.  I thought perhaps the lack of rotation kinked my wire line on that setup because I did not have a ball bearing at both ends.  The ball bearing swivels I am using are large as well.  I believe 75# or 80#.  Are these too big?

 

After reviewing the feedback.  Ironically the fluorocarbon I used on Saturday was Vanish.  This is different from my previous outings.  I looked at my 2 spools and realized what i had used in the past was a fluorocarbon coated.  However, I did catch a few fish in past outings.  For Saturdays outing, I used Vanish because it said 100% fluorocarbon.  I am curious to the concerns posted about Vanish.  Is it a personal preference thing or more than that.  I will move to Seagur or other fluorocarbon.

 

Hopefully, I do not have a "hot" boat issue.  The boat is new and not running downriggers.  Hey anything is possible though.  We will check into that if the skunk continues.

 

Sounds like it was a tough bite as well.

 

Erabbit - I really enjoy your posts.  I like all the pictures - the fish, your fishing boat rig, and your dog.  Seeing your dog makes me think of my Uncle and the fishing memories I had with him.  My uncle who has passed on to the fishing paradise in the sky,  had a similar dog. 

 

Thanks again to all for your assistance.  See you on the water.  I am hoping to get out fishing Saturday afternoon/evening.

 

Dave

[Sk8man]

Great reply post Dave.  You sound as though you are very thorough about things and you'll get it together out there paying attention to detail. The reason I have a problem with Vanish is that it s a weak line especially knot strength. The Seaguar is time tested and is quite strong without problems for me. I have also had good luck with some less expensive stuff called Vicious so I use that in a pinch as well but I threw out about 12-15 spools of Vanish (various tests) recently some of which were unopened.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Sk8man

[Frogger]

All good stuff, with jumping on the band wagon for the thinner Flouro line ( not Vansish lol)and trying to get the dipseys deeper with longer leads to the spoons.  One thing, not sure if this had been mentioned already, is the speed, you might want to try a little slower with lighter type spoons for the deep fish (lakers) like 1.8 -2.2  and faster type (heavier) spoons 2.2 -3.0 for the faster speeds (Bows and locks).  Currents are all over with Seneca and as suggested weaving in and out or changing it up going east and west might indicate a better catch rate.  And one other thing, we have all heard it before, dont leave fish to catch fish, if your marking them, stay close, something should trigger.  Then again we have all had those days where ya feel like golfing.....

[Skidplate]

Speed

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Edited September 30, 2014 by darkwater1

[Skidplate]

One mor thing 1pm is to late u have 2 get out at sun up done bi 12 back out by 4 or 5 fish like the same time of day as we do

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[Skidplate]

Lol

Edited September 30, 2014 by darkwater1

[ifishy]

i do almost all my fishing from late morning to early evening there are pleanty of fish to be had in the middle of the day just gotta find the active ones overall it sounds like you fished seneca lake.  It has a ton of fish and can give some epic days but can shut you down with no rhyme or reason.  I have been re-learning trolling over the last several years and seneca has humbled me more than a few times.  listen to the guys here they know there stuff and light line is a big one better action on spoons.  I like P line there are many who dont.  sonner or later you'll get a program for your boat dialed in and have one of those days where its tough to get all the lines out.

[Grady95]

Why "Not Vanish Though?"  Is there something unique about Vanish that is likely to reduce a catch?  This seemed a very emphatic statement and I'm curious about the reason.  In my years of fishing, that product has not done better or worse than most of the other fluorocarbons, and I have used them all at one time or another.  

Not to challenge you, just curious.  I have seen and heard this statement from others in the past and there must be some basis for it.

Grady

[Frogger]

Grady, Vanish has not stood up to normal abrasions in my experience when catching fish.

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[john1947]

Not to change the subject but here is my 2 cents.I ll run 6 jplugs one of which has 17 lb ande line on it. I have caught almost all my kings  on that one rod for some reason.Different plugs sometimes.never had a bite off which has been a problem with floracarbon(20 lb)This has been a very durable line bought the large spool over ten years now.

[Skidplate]

Vanish sucks. It doesn't have knot strength!