Antler Restriction

[PeltHunter]

"Last year some 129,000 antlerless deer were tagged by hunters across the state and more than half of the 114,716 bucks taken were less than 2.5 years old" That was a quote from the Game & Fish deer forecast for 2014 in NY. In my honest opinion there is no reason for that especially with the fact that you can shoot 5 does a year and thats without transferring any DMP's. New York has the potential to be a quality deer state especially in the central/western sections most of us hunt on the 15 acres I hunt near Canandaigua we have been able to harvest deer at 145 and 173 inches in the last 5 years and several 110-120s. In my opinion there should be a 4 point on one side limit as a lot of 5 and 6 points are still small 1.5 year olds. Have 14-16 year olds exempt from this to keep their interest up and not get them discouraged from hunting. Between reading that quote from the article and seeing the 4 and 5 pointers that have been harvested this year I just figured I had to blow off a little steam.

[JHettenb]

Before you blow off to much steam you may want to look at your own harvesting of " several 110-120s." I'm not sure how many of those you have aged but I would venture to guess they were all 2.5 yr olds or younger. I always get a kick out of guys preaching QDM but continue to shoot deer in the 2.5-3.5 yr age class. How old was the 145? My guess a 3.5 yr old if your hunting Ontario County around Canandaigua. 

 

I would be in favor of an antler restriction as well, partially due to the fact that where I live and hunt there are way to many does and not many people are shooting them. I'm not sure why people feel more inclined to shoot a 1.5-2.5 yr old 8 point than a doe but they do. Even with a 4 on one side restriction a lot of 2.5 yr old or less would be shot due to the fact that around here we do have the potential to grow big bucks and a lot of first racks are 6-8 points. 

 

With only 15 acres it's hard to justify a true QDM approach but if you have shot a 173 and 145 i'm guessing some of the neighboring properties are passing those 110-120's. 

 

 

 

 

[JakeyBaby]

From what I have heard NYS is talking about doing some sort of antler restriction. Not sure how true it is but I agree that it would be great if they did. I highly doubt they will given the number of deer that are running around, granted probably more then 75% are does. The grounds in NY definitely have the potential to grow monsters like they do out west if they are given the time to grow. Which its not all that often they get the chance to do so. Where I hunt its only 200acres so we are obviously not managing, but we sure as hell are trying to. The best thing to do is try to get all the neiboring property's to be on the same page. Also if everyone shot more does the bucks would have no choice but to grow.

Edited October 7, 2014 by JakeyBaby

[Silver Fox]

"Last year some 129,000 antlerless deer were tagged by hunters across the state and more than half of the 114,716 bucks taken were less than 2.5 years old" That was a quote from the Game & Fish deer forecast for 2014 in NY. In my honest opinion there is no reason for that especially with the fact that you can shoot 5 does a year and thats without transferring any DMP's. New York has the potential to be a quality deer state especially in the central/western sections most of us hunt on the 15 acres I hunt near Canandaigua we have been able to harvest deer at 145 and 173 inches in the last 5 years and several 110-120s. In my opinion there should be a 4 point on one side limit as a lot of 5 and 6 points are still small 1.5 year olds. Have 14-16 year olds exempt from this to keep their interest up and not get them discouraged from hunting. Between reading that quote from the article and seeing the 4 and 5 pointers that have been harvested this year I just figured I had to blow off a little steam.

Agreed!

[PeltHunter]

Before you blow off to much steam you may want to look at your own harvesting of " several 110-120s." I'm not sure how many of those you have aged but I would venture to guess they were all 2.5 yr olds or younger. I always get a kick out of guys preaching QDM but continue to shoot deer in the 2.5-3.5 yr age class. How old was the 145? My guess a 3.5 yr old if your hunting Ontario County around Canandaigua. 

 

I would be in favor of an antler restriction as well, partially due to the fact that where I live and hunt there are way to many does and not many people are shooting them. I'm not sure why people feel more inclined to shoot a 1.5-2.5 yr old 8 point than a doe but they do. Even with a 4 on one side restriction a lot of 2.5 yr old or less would be shot due to the fact that around here we do have the potential to grow big bucks and a lot of first racks are 6-8 points. 

 

With only 15 acres it's hard to justify a true QDM approach but if you have shot a 173 and 145 i'm guessing some of the neighboring properties are passing those 110-120's. 

I agree that 110s and 120s were generally not big enough to be shot but they were also shot by me and my brother from 14-17 I haven't shot a deer since then but let several walk. As far as the small acreage there is absolutely nobody around practicing QDM we just happen to have the one of the only good thick hardwood plots in an area that is predominantly agricultural fields so we see most all the deer in the area at one point or another in the season.

[justtracytrolling]

I agree with letting them grow, but it takes time to change things. Much of NY isnt like you are describing with excess does and lots of deer. You have to understand that to many people getting ANY deer is an accomplishment. Also you cant shoot 5 does everywhere...in fact some areas you cant shoot any. There are whole lot of gun only hunters out there who legally can only shoot 1 doe or no does. Plus unlike you many hunters grew up in a time when the general practice was to NOT shoot does and only shoot bucks to ensure survival. Again I agree with the antler restrictions, but be patient. It sounds like you and your brother have plenty of good deer and you owe that to those who came before you shooting only bucks.

[iceman05]

I totally agree with better heard management and I'm lucky enough to have 50 acres to myself But here is my issue with antler restriction. I know a few family's who heavily rely on venison to them a 160" buck feeds the family just as well as a spike. So I'll give his example...he hunts state land where DMPs are pref point only and it has a lot of hunting pressure. If that guy can shoot a spike to provide for his family...I'm sure his whole family is happy....VS having few shots but no dinner because the buck didn't have a 3rd point......next gripe ....poor economy ,guy using hunting to feed his family, $100 license but he can only shoot a buck with 3 or better..... I wonder how many of these family's will buy licenses and take deer in or out of season .....last thought why doesn't NY skip the fancy new license print and put that money towards better wildlife management or perhaps lower the cost of license..by the way mine is still a yellow tag because the new fancy paper wouldn't work

Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United mobile app

[Silver Fox]

I would believe if a family is hurting for food, they would take a deer anytime of year. If I had to put food on my families plate, I would do it.

[andy]

You can't talk as New York State as a whole. Western ny an antler restriction is a great idea. Agreed shoot the does to eat. But in places east of us the deer herd is much different then it is here. I hunt in Albany as well and there are many areas there where you can't shoot does unless you have three preference points to get a tag for regular gun season. So my dads where I hunt we have three hundred acres and as the season goes on the people who hunt his property become more desperate to harvest a deer to eat. Not to mention the quality of bucks there is nothing like it is here. Then take the Adirondacks where in parts you are lucky to see a few deer all season long. I was in plattsburgh last week and had a guy who was excited that he got his first pic of a doe on his trail cam. He also had pics of bears and one cow moose but the fact that he had a doe on his trail cam made his year lol. Antler restriction is a great idea out here but not heading out that way. Also how about one buck per year? Why do people need to shoot a six pointer with the bow and then shoot another with the gun. If we were serious about getting bigger bucks in New York we would only be allowed to kill one buck per year. It seemed to work in Ohio. Along with a shorter gun season.

[Frogger]

I wont chirp too much about the need for a better deer mgt program, but I would second the Ohio reference.  Top notch deer mgt program.  Its not just about the region, or the fact that they have more agriculture, or because of the gene pool in the mid west....  Its about what they have done to control it.  Take a look if you get a chance at the Ohio rules regs for deer hunting, everything from seasons to hunting hours are different.  Its a different culture over there.  Just hard to explain.  Wish we could adopt some of that here.  But I realize its a big step.  I dont think the antler restriction is the way to go IMHO, I would recommend the one buck and your done rule.  Either bow, Cross bow, muzzle, shotgun, you get only one buck.  Shoot as many does as you are allowed in that unit. 1,2 or 5. Also lengthen the second season bow muzzle for does.   I will bet a mtn dew youll see 120's -130's running every where in 3yrs.  Heck In 5yrs NYS would be a ranked P&Y / B&C state.  Just an opinion though.

[Grand Slam11]

Totally support an antler restriction. Doesn't matter if it's 3 or 4 on one side. But in order for ny to get big bucks they need to push the gun season back a couple of weeks. Ny is one of the only states that has a gun season in the "peak of the rut" they also need to cut the gun season down to 2 weeks. But this is just my two cents.

[deerman]

my opinion is do away with this trophy hunting crap and get back to the fun of hunting with family and friends like it used to be,the rest of the hunters shouldnt have to suffer for the few that just want bragging rights,most poeple dont have land to hunt on ,so we have to hunt public land,which i hunt sampson state park,which was good until now its only bow and 4points on one side nothing like taking away a good hunting spot for young kids,thanks to the new park manager

[BSmaster]

I shoot a button buck and I feel embarrassed and ashamed.  My next door neighbor shoots a button buck and I say congratulations because it is the first deer he has shot in 14 years.  My point is be careful how you preach.  I love the idea of quality deer management and have seen great success come from it, however, this is on large acres and/or a large neighborhood commitment.  Guys hunting small plots and state land do not have the same odds of seeing positive feedback from letting smaller bucks go by as the larger areas.  I get a deer - any deer and my kids are excited.  they don't see me as anything other than the hotdog getter.  What some see as a sport, I see as a harvest.  My preference is a mature doe with the hope of a wall hanger.  Meat first - trophy 2nd.

 

The comment about hunting with family and friends hit me close to home.  I think the reason I don't hunt as hard as I used to is because the family group is all but gone.  It use to be a lot more fun during deer season.  Hunting has become more solitaire in recent years.

 

Statewide antler restriction will have a snap back effect.  Hunting groups should enforce this  (within their group) and not the DEC for the whole state.

 

Joe

[tough luck]

Do what makes you happy! And enjoy the outdoors!

Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United

[Creekrun]

Deerman,

I agree with you wholeheartedly.I hunt in pa. where we've had antler restrictions for 10 years.I belong to a camp who relishes venison, we make our own sausage and process our own meat. Since the restrictions came along, our kill rate has decreased considerably to the point where last year we harvested 2 bucks between 10 guys, we could care less about big racks.We want to put meat through the grinder. Big racks feed big egos, small racks feed families!

[Jammin]

Never see me let a nice doe walk by cause a buck might be following her and if he is he's gonna be all testosterone and not tasty never shot a basket rack even though prob should cause the neighbors don't care and one year while yote hunting I found the little three horned one and two other little ones shot and left by trophy drivers I'd seen these bucks every weekend all season

Deerman head down the road farther to Lodi lots federal land and not a lot of pressure if your will in to get off the road aways look for areas that have less snowmobile trails not as many guys want to break a trail seen plenty of deer down that way if you put in the shoe leather

[deerman]

hey jammin where down in lodi you talking about hector federal land,thats the only open land i know of that way,ya it sucks i got spoiled when i started hunting we hunted in yates county all over potter and that area is deer heaven,but now the amish own almost everything over there it stinks

[PeltHunter]

The people saying some hunt for meat like I said most sections you can get at least 2 doe tags a year. As for sport versus harvest I hunt for meat as well I shoot usually a doe or two a year and my dad does the same at that point you have a pretty solid freezer and it shouldn't be as hard to be picky about a mature buck vs a 1.5 year old. I hunt the western part of the state, a 100 acre mountain side near Albany and a few hundred acres in the Adirondacks and hunt with the same mentality anywhere. Obviously there is less deer seen up north but that has to do with the bs logging restrictions and such which could be a whole nother topic. As some said taking an Ohio type system could work as well but I think some sort of size restriction would help with that as well. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with shooting a 4 pointer to feed the family but if there was more 8's and 10's running around 4 pointers wouldn't have to be harvested.

[CHAMP99B]

BS......i agree with everything he says....look at all the dead deer on the roads today,and its 365 days a year....do you really think the insurance companies really care about letting racks get bigger "not"....with less hunters in the field today the more permits the dec will let out !! So enjoy the venison....big racks are nice,don't take me wrong everyone dreams of bullwinkle,the problem is most of them are killed by vehicles before the season even starts,enjoy the hunt,enjoy the outdoors.....and most of all....get your kids involved !!!! Have a safe hunting season !!!!

[Steelman]

The hell with antler restrictions is what I say.  I am a meat hunter first and foremost, and before some of you roll your eyes I will hunt for does to first and hold out for a better age class buck.  Does this always work, well for the most part yes but there have been a few years where a 1.5 year old buck met the freezer at seasons end.  I have nothing against trophy hunting and the desire to put a wallhanger down.  But I will tell you its not my right nor anyone else to make others hunt your way by restricting them to antler restrictions.  It not only takes the heritage away from our sport and turn it into a horn brigade of look at me wannabes and forces everyone to hunt your way. Plus it will also create much more illegal harvest and poaching.  The best course of action I believe to please both sides is limit it to a one buck rule.  With it being a two buck state many will take that first buck and then hold off for the big boy later.  If your a meat hunter its still your choice to put whatever age class buck you want in your freezer, if your a antler hunter then you can hold off for your horns.  You put a one buck rule in this state and you will see more doe harvest and less younger class bucks taken.  Everyone wins. 

[justtracytrolling]

It would be fun to reread this thread in 10 years and see how we feel then. I believe QDMA will spread on its own as it has to date. I also think if it happens over time it will be more widely accepted and less individuals will be left out. Its a fine line writing more difficult to enforce game laws. Look at the lack of unity among the trib fishermen....what we dont need is more arguing over what is the right way to hunt or fish. Educating the next generation and preserving our heritage is what is most important. I do wonder if killing big bucks will feel as special if and when they are everywhere. Where does it stop? My little 100-130 bucks on the wall will always be trophies to me as I know what it took to get em! Food for thought.....Good thread!

[Guppy35]

I think BSMaster has a good point, antler restrictions should not come from the DEC, but within each hunting camp.  If one hunting camp wants to hunt for trophies, they can have their own antler restriction.  If a camp hunts primarily for the meat, let them harvest any legal deer that they want.  At my camp we have an antler restriction of 4 points per side, and we have seen tremendous antler growth throughout our herd.  But i don't think the DEC should dictate what size buck an individual can harvest.

[nookchasen]

Honistly deer are a nuisance nys is over populated and causing thousands of dollars a yr to my family farm in my area we have a lot of people that shoot everything and makes them happy or provides for there famy it's personnel preference I choose not to shoot a buck unless I'm putting it on the wall but if someone else wants to shoot a spike horn god bless them to be able to do that last thing I want to see is more laws more regulations just so you can brag u shot a big buck you want qdm buy yourself property and fence it in but don't tell me or anyone else what they can and can't shoot

[fbg14619]

My two cents, if I may.   If you put a 3 or 4 point restriction out there ( which there is in some areas I hunt)

What is to stop someone from seeing a flash of horns and knocking the buck down and then walking over and

saying oops it does not meet the restriction  and then walking away and trying to kill another buck?  I think the one buck rule is a good idea and the best way to achieve more big bucks.

[Silver Fox]

If he sees a flash of horns and shoots at it, he should not own a gun and never hunt again.