Release protocol?

[old man]

I don't want to start any crap but i'm curious. There's a you tube out from "go fish new york/1000 islands muskie" where 2 guys and a camera crew hire a well known guide in clayton and troll for muskie. It's a nice video and eventually they get one. The captain nets the fish and drops it on the deck where it thrashes around. They unhook it,take some pics and she swims off. It was caught from a pretty big boat and i get it that you can't unhook it in the net from a boat that size. My beef is i got ripped on for bringing a 50" in my boat a couple years ago and this guy gets nothing but praise. So if i trade my 18ft champion for a 25 ft grady can i park muskies on the deck and not get dissed? What say you?

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[Sk8man]

I think the answer resides in yourself. You do what is best for the fish and its survival given the conditions at hand. As long as you have done your best to accomplish that it doesn't matter what others say. Every situation is different the basic thing is to not handle (or manhandle) fish any more than absolutely necessary and to avoid placing them in known detrimental positions ( e.g. hands or fingers in the gill area, held vertically, or held for inordinate amount of time out of water) and gently allowing the fish to sufficiently recover before releasing them in the water. I try to never actually touch fish unnecessarily if they are small and release them with needle nose pliers applied to single hooks and if holding fish I support them underneath and hold above the tail while keeping them horizontal.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Sk8man

[Xxx]

As what Les said, if you did your best, don't let the goons get the best of you. Some people get their rocks off buy starting $hit, for every action their is going to be a reaction. It's the nature of the beast. I used to get upset with people's comments but anymore I just laugh, whatever. Those that start smack usually have more skeletons in the closet than you can shake a stick at. I'm surprised with the hunting season starting there hasn't been a heated thread. Keep fishing and hunting and do it to your best of knowledge and who cares what someone else thinks.

[Ivan]

I'll man-up and respond.  I feel obligated since I called out Old Man a couple years ago for his release techniques (I'm guessing that's what he's referring to).  Although my passion for muskies hasn't changed, my approach to certain topics has.  I should have approached things differently back then Old Man, and I've said that before...sorry.  I've also given you praise for your improved release techniques since then.  That's in the past though.  I've come to learn that you seem like a good guy and do care about the fish/fishery.

 

I think Old Man's question has to do with muskies, specifically.  We aren't talking about salmon, trout, bass or walleye.  There probably isn't another species around here that relies on good catch and release like muskies. (maybe something like paddlefish or sturgeon but nobody is really targeting them).  No offense intended, but if you aren't a serious, dedicated muskie angler, you probably don't have enough personal investment and experience to understand. Muskie fishing is better now (most places) than it's ever been, and a big part of that is thanks to catch and release.  The increased popularity of the sport makes catch and release even more important.  Guys are catching and re-catching fish that other muskie anglers have previously caught all the time now.  There just aren't that many muskies and the better we all are at our release techniques, the better fishing will be for everyone.  I can't re-catch a muskie that died because of someone else's bad release techniques and same goes for others if I don't do my part with my fish to release them well. That doesn't mean that all muskies have to be released, but 99% of muskies caught by dedicated muskie anglers are released.  It is still within peoples' right to keep a legal sized muskie, if they chose, but we should all do our part to release them properly to give them the best chance at survival when we do release them.

 

I have alot of respect for Rich.  He's a legend in our sport.  He's caught alot of muskies that are bigger than the biggest I've ever had in my boat.  I also have alot of respect for other guys guiding/chartering on the St Lawrence like Bob, Darryl, and Paul that use this board and others.  Those guys spent countless hours on very difficult water, in brutal conditions, in search of giant muskies each season.  I'm sure they all understand the importance of good catch and release techniques, especially on a world class, natural fishery like the St Lawrence.  If nothing else, their businesses depend on it.

 

I don't have enough personal experience with the St Lawrence to comment on how release techniques may or may not affect the fishery there.  I do know cooler water temps can make a big difference.  However, I have seen personal accounts of poor handling of muskies by people fishing from big boats in the past at St Clair in the summer though.  Releasing muskies from large boats can be more challenging.  I've seen plenty of floating dead muskies at LSC due to poor releases in the past.  I've even tried to revive some of them when a big boat tossed it over the side and didn't stop.  Most of those guys have learned/adapted/evolved and are using different techniques now, and the fishery has benefited from it. If I was fishing from a large boat that didn't allow me to use my net as a livewell/holding pen in the water, and I was concerned about the health of my released fish, this is what i would use:

Edited October 30, 2014 by Ivan

[Sk8man]

"No offense intended, but if you aren't a serious, dedicated muskie angler, you probably don't have enough personal investment and experience to understand."  Ivan - I'm pretty certain that many if not most of the anglers on this site fish for a variety of species and although exclusive muskie fishermen probably already know how to release fish in general there are many anglers that are new to or perhaps inexperienced in catch and release that frequent this website. My comments/suggestions were directed primarily to them.  To infer that because someone does not fish exclusively for muskies they wouldn't "understand" is rather elitist. I know they are relatively uncommon, elusive and difficult to consistently catch and that they require somewhat different "handling" techniques (even just because of their teeth ) but the things I suggested are generally appropriate for ANY freshwater or salt water species.

[Ivan]

Nope.  That wasn't directed at you Les, or anyone else specifically and I agree with what you said.  My point is that good muskie fishing relies on catch and release.  The species and what's required to have good fishing is different than other more popular species.  It's ok to keep a bunch of salmon to eat each year because their numbers rely on stocking and they die when they spawn every 3 or 4 years anyway.  Guys that don't fish for salmon might not understand that and there's alot I don't know about salmon because they are not my targeted species the majority of the time.  Guys that don't have as much experience with muskies specifically, may not understand how important catch and release is as well as somebody that fishes for them all the time...that's all.  Should have realized my wording there might be mis-interpreted and create some backlash.

[muskiedreams]

You can't always do everything perfect. Every situation is different. It does help to understand, be prepared and strive for the best possible catch and release procedure. There will sometimes be situations where things won't go as smoothly as you would have liked. You have to learn from each C&R and think about what you can do the next time to make things go smoother. You just have to do the best you can for the safety of the fish, your fishing partner and yourself.

 

Ivan, Your post came up while I was writing this. Thank you. It is a perfect example of what I am trying to say. Part of what we have to do is to learn from every situation and our mistakes and help others with what we have learned in a respectful manor without belittling them for thier mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes and not every release goes as smoothly as we would like. Sometimes the fish causes dificulty or there is another unforseen circumstance.

 

The most important thing is to stress the importance of doing the best we can for the sake of our valuable fisheries and to educate those who are new to musky fishing, do not understand or have misconceived understanding (such as walleye anglers who still beleive that muskies kill many walleye).

Edited October 30, 2014 by muskiedreams

[ontherise]

Club it on the head before release.

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[Sk8man]

Ivan - you cleared it up for me....no offense taken and your point is well taken. The muskie fishery is a very different 'animal" in that sense than most and I fully agree with  your second post. Thanks. Les

[muskiedreams]

Club it on the head before release.

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ontherise, If you are serious about this statement, please read these two links with an open mind. I am sure I can find more items that support the findings here. I have read a lenghly report on the study that was done by the Minnesota DNR That study, I beleive involved about 20 lakes over a 10 year period.

 

http://www.thenextbite.tv/sites/default/files/WhatDoMuskiesReallyEat.pdf

 

http://www.lakevermilion.com/muskies/htmls/diets.html

[ontherise]

Really?????? #joking

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[Xxx]

Really?????? #joking

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I think he was referring to the video where the guy was clubbing the Muskie over the head and tossing it overboard, while two other guys videoed the whole shebang. It was a thread on here awhile back. Peace guys.

[ontherise]

#yes.. My apologies for not clarifying.

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[muskiedreams]

That's good.

 

There are still quite a few walleye and perch fisherman out there that beleive muskies are killing all the walleye and perch. I actually met one a few weeks ago at the Field & Stream grand opener. I tried to convince him that it isn't true. I am not sure if I got through to him. I wonder if the main reason they hate muskies and pike is that sometimes one will bite off their lure.

[Xxx]

That's good.

 

There are still quite a few walleye and perch fisherman out there that beleive muskies are killing all the walleye and perch. I actually met one a few weeks ago at the Field & Stream grand opener. I tried to convince him that it isn't true. I am not sure if I got through to him. I wonder if the main reason they hate muskies and pike is that sometimes one will bite off their lure.

I have had that happen a few time already, then I started tying my worm harnesses out of 20# fluro. And found out my catch ratio went up on the walleyes due the stiffer line making the harness more strait and also reeling in some rather stout pike, but never hooked into a Muskie that I know of.

[BSmaster]

That's good.

 

There are still quite a few walleye and perch fisherman out there that beleive muskies are killing all the walleye and perch. I actually met one a few weeks ago at the Field & Stream grand opener. I tried to convince him that it isn't true. I am not sure if I got through to him. I wonder if the main reason they hate muskies and pike is that sometimes one will bite off their lure.

Muskie changed the ecosystem in the river system down here in the souther tier and I won't argue with anyone about data etc.  I am not old enough to be a codger and even though I am old enough to see the changes, I can not say definitively that the changes are bad - just different.  I won't euthenize a muskie if i catch it because if one thing is certain, it is more difficult to bring them back in the ecosystem then it is to take them out.  I would like to catch a nice one for the wall but besides that I would rather catch walleye and even perch.  It is so cool watchin them chase fish up on the rocks in the fall.  I don't target them and I don't believe they should be clubbed on the head. 

 

As far as the original post...  I have seen numerous fishing shows where they are handling the fish wrong and it is done mostly for a "look what I got moment."  A lot of those fish are (likely) not recaught, they goto they bottom and die and few days later they are on a beach shore somewhere.  I remember the thread.  Some criticized and some had your back.  People in general will always have strong feelings about those things they are passionate about.  Criticism is ok as long as you are respectful and I believe you have everyone's respect.

 

Joe

[Stinky Finger]

Anybody in muskie fishing, not just in New York but anywhere muskies swim, knows that skipper immediately on sight. He needs no introductions and certainly owes no apologies or excuses.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with anything in the entire video.

My hat is off to him and I look up to him with a huge amount of admiration. 

This esteemed Captain is likely the next world record producer.

And you know what? If he does manage to top the 70 pound mark and keep it good for him and shut your mouth!

If you don't like it go catch a 71.

[muskiedreams]

BSmaster,

 

tmag recently posted a comment to the Catch & Release topic pinned to the top of this forum. There is a lot of information that he has collected over a long period of time, including correspondence with fisheries management professionals in NY and PA. There is so much material there that it will take a long time to wade through it all. I did see some discussions there about the rivers in NY Southern Tier and also the PA rivers that you might be interested to read. From the little that read, I get the impression that there are many other factors that have affected multiple species in these rivers. Sometimes it is much more complicated than it appears to be.