State of Lake Meetings Scheduled!

[KING ME]

tim - every piece helps paint a picture.

[GAMBLER]

They have been at the Sandy Creek Shootout the past couple years also.

[RUNNIN REBEL]

Ok,

I sat back to read everyone's interpretation of State of Lake meeting and personal observations and beliefs, BEFORE I would comment.. I can only say people need to go to the state of lake meetings (more than one if you can) OR we had SAME meeting with Steve Lapan for "one on one" questions last fall at Genesee charter association meeting.   This week ONLY 57 people in attendance at this year's state of Lake meeting in Rochester.......MOST were stream fisherman, newcomers(including environmentalist who confronted me out personally after meeting about my lifetime Lake experiences VS. her Washington DC political meeting). SMALLEST REPRESENTATION EVER at any meeting by trout/salmon fishery interest groups in the last 35+ years..........This was ALL about trout/salmon fishery this year. NO bass stats or any cisco update. People's attendance have meaning===represent votes & $$$$$ impact and plain interest or accountability in what state is doing. Slide show at meeting of Canadien creel census info, show they count vehicles at fishing spots count number of people per vehicle then identify origins/country etc. of people... THAT HAS VALUE.  Why would NY state spend money on this when they can put $900 MILLION DOLLARS into state parks. (just a few years ago NYS wanted to close state parks to save money) What a turn around, ANYTHING is possible. They currently close the Lake Ontario State Parkway at Oak Orchard west to save $$$$ on winter maintenance.

 

 

 

Meeting observations

As mentioned, Baitfish bottom trawls and SONAR ACUSTICS (used to detect HIGHER colum baitfish on those shorter/warmer winters)begin in April and end early May. Done in same locations/time frames to help keep stats equal. So seeing more baitfish than ever before last couple years AFTER May and after inshore spawning run , higher in the water Colum argument is suspect to DEC (YES we see the bait after the trawls ). The colder and longer the winters then the longer and deeper/more concentrated the bait is during bottom trawl time frames.

 

Lake Ontario Alewifes are down 2/3 the total amount of what they were on AVERAGE from the 1980's---early1990's. That's when this lake produced #40 ++++ salmon yearly on the USA side. And the lake's capability to produce lower food web/chain was excellent.

NOW this lake has on AVAREGE  has 1/3 the alewives it had.  The Great lakes clean water act and government regulations on farmers & lawn care fertilizing co. & shoreline/marina owners regulations etc. AGAINST anything going into lake's nutrient supply. THEN Zebra mussels cleaning out shallower water nutrient & Quagga mussels cleaning out the deeper depths of the lake,  Has caused this lakes current and probable future ability to produce a lower end food chain to sustain even current levels of bait is not probable.

 

Kings will hunt/eat nothing but alewifes(smelt numbers will not suffice) Example:Michigan king stomach content research for many years. ....Now add %48 kings in the lake are wild production(we have no control over this yearly number-good years & bad years) add to our current stocking numbers. All these kings are only hunting POOR quality (fat content/nutrient value) Alewives this year. Thus not even a couple true #40 salmon have not been seen in years on the USA side....(Best quality salmon stock Lake Ontario has for past years is Canadien stock kings.) Check any canadien LOCAL tournament weights VS. a USA lake wide spring & summer & even our fall lakewide derby sizes get beat handily. So saying we/the lake only have 1 hatchery is absolutely wrong. This lake has MANY Canadien hatcheries all ready approved and currently stocking Lake Ontario, with the BEST QUALITY KING PRODUCT out there..(Old school staging kings off every Canadien port they were stocked in--------early fall tournaments won by fishing 12' to 40' of 60 degree +water ALL DAY, catching nothing but "GENETIC ARMY ALL MALES" (very few if any hens in yet)

 

All the GREAT tournaments on this lake DEC shows up at to take fish info does not go toward creel census numbers...they count somewhere else. Imagine our per catch ratio with all tournaments info collected...

 

 

ADD 300 thousand +++++ lake trout into this eco system .  You now have a true predator that will eat ANY THING that swims in ANY size and in ANY Quantity.... ANYWHERE on this lake (5' of water in spring  to 200' depths and deeper on bottom anytime and top water out deep and up rivers). They will roll rocks on bottom to forage sculpin/gobies even zebra mussels. They maintain virtual lakewide distribution almost all year. They rarely if ever void an area or even a whole county or two for days/weeks and even months during open water trolling season. Their loyalty is to survival and growth, NOT to hunt Alewife only. They will feed ALL DAY and all year (Frequent Ice fishing targets) And as mentioned live forever !!!!!!!!

Lake trout also have financial backing from the Federal government to be stocked and Fed $$$ to protect lake trout from lamprey.

 

As for NY State money... They were able to purchase 2 new trucks this year for stocking... BUT had to take off and re-use the older equipment on the existing trucks. Our upgrade to Hatchery included a new roof. Did I mention NY State was spending $900 million on state park Beatification.

 

TO BE CONTINUED.......... Better yet PLEASE GO TO THE STATE MEETINGS.... If not I would be happy to set up another meeting this fall With NY state/dec personel again. While the current fishing season/experience is fresh.

 

 

Jerry

Edited March 7, 2015 by RUNNIN REBEL

[RUNNIN REBEL]

Okay King Davey,

Back to you now. As we have known each other for 30+ years. I should have known we would be the ones to ask over half of the questions at this weeks state of lake meeting.

 

Jerry

[King Davy]

Well Jerry just like fishing we ask a lot of questions cause we are always trying to learn something new.

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[finsntins]

so jerry,do you think gill-t's idea of a log book at boat launchs and marinas is a good idea???there is a meeting in pulaski this week that maybe it can be brought up and dicussed???

[Silver Fox]

Unfortunately, if you put a log book at launches/marinas guys will lie because they don't want the "guy behind him" to know he got 2 fish for the day. Numbers would be inflated big time.

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[RUNNIN REBEL]

Fins,

That would be a great question to bring up in Pulaski meeting (DEC knows that area has largest river fishing and lake fishing presence combined). YOU HAVE A VOICE CLOSE TO ALTMAR and ALBANY.   The fact is Gill-t's idea would be an extension of CURRENT 2015 log program currently going on. The stream fisherman in NY currently have a "Angler Diary program" . Why stream guy's don't mention this i do not know.....You only need to provide DEC with your name and contact information. THEY WILL SEND YOU A DIARY. (already printed up and ready to go for 2015.  The current angler diary program covers Allegany and wyoming counties (Wiscoy creek). This program/diary runs from March 1st to Oct 31st 2015 and its purpose is to QUOTE " Angler diarist needed to help EVALUATE THE QUALITY OF THE FISHERY " You have to admit this study time frame sure would work on the lake this year COMBINED with an existing ready to go DEC official diary they will send you now.

 

Please post response of meeting and details. And THANKS for taking the time and effort.

 

Jerry

 

Play to your strengths and win small battles before you ask for the world..........

Edited March 8, 2015 by RUNNIN REBEL

[RUNNIN REBEL]

NO NEED for logs at launches. DEC has diary books today 2015 that could be adapted by every fisherman that requests one. It would be a start and extension of a CURRENT/BUDGETED DEC program. NO $$$$ excuses on this idea.

 

Jerry

[finsntins]

so is there a "diary book"for lake fishing or is it just for trib. fisherman? and if not,do you think that would be something worth putting out there at the meeting?i guess with a personal diary,like silver fox said,you shouldnt have to worry about guys inflating thier catch numbers,although i think that is ridiculous to inflate catch numbers,just to look good,knowing that you are only hurting yourself and every other fisherman on the lake.

[KING ME]

Fins-

 yes it is a great question to bring up at the meeting. if the current trib designed diary wouldn't work ask what exact info. they would want/need from lake fisherman. 

[finsntins]

unless there is an unforseen emergency,i will be at the meeting.i will bring this up and take some notes and report the outcome,probably not till wednesday after work,i have a 2 hour drive to pulaski,so i wont get home till late tuesday night.

[KING ME]

look forward to the notes.

[Gill-T]

Paper has a way of getting moldy on a boat.  Keep it on the shore that way you will never forget it.

[finsntins]

i will bring it up,what i do on my boat is,i have grease board that i write everything down that happens during the day,then when i get back to the dock,i transfer that info into a notebook for future reference.no moldy paper.either way,if daily logs of fisherman will help the lake,then i think we need to come up with an answer,whether it be log books at launches and marinas or daily log books on boats,if either way is going to help,then we need to figure it out.

[KING ME]

fins- we use a plastic 3 ring binder to keep our log in ...easy to store, take on and off boat as needed, whatever.

[jason]

Let's adopt the Alaska program every king caugh is logged weight, measurments, clipped or not. Paperwork mailed in daily. Now there is no lying because your fish is logged. If you get caught lying like more fish in cooler then on paperwork, you receive a fine. works out in alaska why not here.

[KING ME]

Jason,

 the DEC can't afford the creel census boat to be out as often as it should , there is no way to enforce or regulate something along that lines. Its truely not needed either...just looking for more consistent and accurate pieces to the puzzle. 

[Tall Tails]

See everyone tonight in Pulaski!  630 sharp

[camomanbg]

For anyone that keeps a log or might start on their own here are some great books for keeping records on the boat.  I've been using these at work for years and they work great.  Just use a pencil and you won't have to worry about being wet.

 

http://www.riteintherain.com/inventory.asp?CatId={A4555CB9-79B6-4481-A752-F8139E35F2CE}

[Tall Tails]

Great turnout in Pulaski last night.  We had 137 on hand.  One of the biggest crowds in recent memory. 

 

I am digesting all my notes today but I came away with being even more leary of our hatchery situation.  This recirculation idea may not be the best.  They already have enough issues at the Salmon River hatchery and adding a recirc system will only compound those issues.   Funny they have the money for the recirc system but not to spend on the wells which by the way wont get any more attention until the summer of 2016.....  I have stopped thinking about asking for more and just pushing to maintain what we have....  

[Legacy]

Wow. Great turn out for the east end meeting!

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[Gill-T]

Why don't the DEC just ask for help?  Among all the stakeholders on Lake Ontario there are many business owners with hard assets (equipment) to get work done.  There aren't people around to replace a roof on the hatchery???  ASK FOR HELP!!!!!  It drives me crazy to think a roof has been leaking at the hatchery for 30 years and nobody has done anything.  I am sure there are members on LOU that have bulldozers, drilling equipment, and the will do the volunteer work necessary.  We could have a tournament to reimburse fuel costs for equipment used by volunteers.  Think outside the box!  

[Yankee Troller]

You guys are all delusional if you think the DEC actually cares. There a a few who do, but the rest are robots to the government. This is NY people. Democratic/Liberal to the bone! It's all about taking care of NYC. Not a multi-million dollar fishery.

 

The "old timers" have given up on them, and trust nothing they present. These guys aren't stupid! They are just sick of not being listened to. Lets see a guy spending 100+ days a year on the water versus a biologist? Hmmmm

 

The lack of Captains and Lake guys at these meetings is speaking volumes also. These new age stream guys are, and will be, taking over. BS about this being a 12 month fishery, and everyone hail the Steelhead. The Salmon brings a ROI better than all of the other species combined. Yet, these "biologist" feel it necessary to almost double LT stockings rather than putting in more Salmon. Take the lake fishing (May-September), and the month and a half of Salmon season in the tribs and that topples any steelhead revenue.

 

You want to start scaring these stream guys? The Finger lakes see a lot of natural reproduction in their streams, and this leads to stream closings to help protect that process. If we are seeing a 50% Natural reproduction (more BS I think we are being fed) then maybe we need to close down the Rivers and Streams on the South shore to protect this.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Yankee Troller

[Legacy]

You guys are all delusional if you think the DEC actually cares. There a a few who do, but the rest are robots to the government. This is NY people. Democratic/Liberal to the bone! It's all about taking care of NYC. Not a multi-million dollar fishery.

The "old timers" have given up on them, and trust nothing they present. These guys aren't stupid! They are just sick of not being listened to. Lets see a guy spending 100+ days a year on the water versus a biologist? Hmmmm

The lack of Captains and Lake guys at these meetings is speaking volumes also. These new age stream guys are, and will be, taking over. BS about this being a 12 month fishery, and everyone hail the Steelhead. The Salmon brings a ROI better than all of the other species combined. Yet, these "biologist" feel it necessary to almost double LT stockings rather than putting in more Salmon. Take the lake fishing (May-September), and the month and a half of Salmon season in the tribs and that topples any steelhead revenue.

You want to start scaring these stream guys? The Finger lakes see a lot of natural reproduction in their streams, and this leads to stream closings to help protect that process. If we are seeing a 50% Natural reproduction (more BS I think we are being fed) then maybe we need to close down the Rivers and Streams on the South shore to protect this.

Wow, if it didn't already belong to someone else then I would suggest you should change your screen name to "Debbie Downer".

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