Dan Keating SWR riggs

[steelfire]

Just finished reading the new Dan Keating book. Excellent read!!

 Does anybody hear run the SWR(secret weapon rigg) ?? Running 3 colors of lead core off of a rigger with either a spoon or fly in the summer when the sun is high and the byte has slowed?? He seems to do very well on it. Just wondering if it works on Lake Ontario Kings

[PD Buoy]

I just finished the book myself and agree, excellent reading material. Have not tried the SWR as of yet off a downrigger but certainly will try it out next trip to The Great Lake O. Also was intrigued by the addition of A few colors of leadcore added to copper. We shall see how it all works out. Bring on Spring fishing!!!

[scobar]

Dan K was a big part of last years seminar in Niagara Falls. He talked about the SWR. I ran it last summer a few times and yes fish were landed, not at smoking rate, but it does work

[bout time]

It's another tool to add to to your arsenol. Like.any others it has its days. I run mine with two colors of lead. I've gotten away from running it lately because of others have produced just as well ( coppers/cores/divers etc.) But when I did it took fish. It can be a great tool for summer brown fishing when they move to deeper waters. It's also a good rod to use as your bottom rod when stacking riggers because it rides so much lower. You cam aldo use it off your boards when steelhead fishing.

Mike

'Bout Time

Edited February 28, 2015 by bout time

[steelfire]

Good to know! Thanks guys. I can't wait to try it when the sun gets high and the king bite slows. Thats where I need the most help.

[Big Water]

It works and there are days where it took the majority of our fish.

[Sk8man]

IT also works well with lakes trout run deep.

[Missdemeanor]

 I went to a Dave Mull / Dan Keating seminar a few years ago... they did have a few good tips on rigging, but for the most part it was a forum to showcase their sponsor's equipment....I was waiting for the Slap Chop guy to come out and yell "Your gonna love my nuts".

   I tried to have an open mind about Keating's techniques, but there was a point in the seminar that really put things in perspective. He was talking about running his light line rig. It was a 12 lb test light action rod down the chute rigger and running it with a long lead to the ball. Dan said it was his go to rig for negative Kings. I almost bought into it until someone asked "what do you do when the fleas are bad?" Dan claimed that he just went out to deeper water where the fleas tend to be minimal. Minimal???  Really? Try that in Lake Ontario in late July/ early August. I thought that maybe the secret weapon rig might work. That summer I gave it quite a bit of water time. MY conclusion is that the SWR doesn't really put more fish in the boat. Will it catch fish? Sure it will. Will it out produce a mono rig at the same lead length? From my experience, no. As someone else has previously posted, segmented cores off your boards out on scum lines in Late spring can be deadly on Steelhead, Kings and even suspended Lakers ( who fight pretty good when your not dredging them off the bottom is 120fow).

    Obviously there are some similarities to the techniques used by guys in Michigan and what we use on Ontario. My opinion is that Lake O and Michigan are quite different. Ive fished both bodies and what might light em up on Michigan, might not light em up on Lake O.  Trial and error my friends.... 

   When I started on the Lake, there was no LOU, no internet, and no cell phones.... we all learned by trial and error. Granted our boats were smaller and the gas was cheaper, but at the end of the day it was satisfying that we figured em out by ourselves or with help from a couple of buddies. The upcoming fleet of fishermen are very lucky to have forums like this one. There are experienced guys who come on forums like this one and share information on what works and what doesn't. It cuts down on the learning curve for this ever changing fishery.....   Tight lines and think "spring". 

Edited March 1, 2015 by Missdemeanor

[Yankee Troller]

When we fished amateur division it helped us to a 3rd place finish in Sodus running a mini green spinnie and fly on our center rigger. It's got it's time and place.

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Edited March 1, 2015 by Yankee Troller

[Silver Fox]

Wow Matt, couldn't say it better myself. Agree 100%. I remember mentioning something about how lucky guys were to have this site and got whacked by someone! And yes I tried the swr a couple times and it never moved. And yes I used to use 12# mono all the time, but with how good fluorocarbon works, why in the hell would you even take a chance on 12# mainline. And yes, he does push product and I wouldn't use a Howie fly if it was only $1.

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[Gill-T]

The conception the the SWR is some "magical" new fangled method that confuses fish into submission is wrong.  Two colors of lead will only add 8' of depth to your presentation.  Add a spinny.....even less.  You could do the same thing with a couple of large split shot.  In the world of salmon and trout over deep water 8' is NOTHING.  What is 8'?  Just look up to your ceiling.  A fish can easily see and move on a bait 8' above.  I think the SWR "perceived" success is owed to the fact that the 2 colors allows for a longer set-back off the downrigger ball.....more stealthy moving the lure away from the disturbance of the rigger ball and the noise of the boat.......that is it IMO.  Ok....commence roasting my take.

[momay4000]

Gill - great post. I agree 100%. I think - me included here- way overthink things.

Your post is spot on.

[tlombardozzi]

I read the book myself, what about the early morning method of running all flashers in a concentrated group? Does this method work?

[Missdemeanor]

With actively feeding fish? Sure.... But the window may be real small on bright days.... Personally i run a mix of spoons and paddles....most of my junk lines have paddles on them..

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[tlombardozzi]

Junk lines meaning lead or copper?

[Missdemeanor]

Yessir.... Heres the thing...when fishing for fun, or chartering...a guy want lots of action. Spoons can produce lots of bites,however they may not be the monsters, its still fun. Tournament time, a guy,might be hunting a handfull of big fish... He may not want teenagers or steelhead, so the paddles and flies or meat goes out. Ive found my paddles and meat produce bigger fish, but spoons produce more fish....plus im a spoon guy...lol

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[steelfire]

I run 4 riggers. In middle to late August at first light, running four spinnys works well. But as soon as it gets a little light out, I believe its to much for them and switch back to two spinnys and two spoons. Just my opinion. I know some guys never run more than 3 riggers, but most of the time I do ok with 4.

[tlombardozzi]

We only have the ability to run two riggers so, our typical program is spoons on riggers and flasher/flies on the wire dipsies. After reading I was thinking maybe trying the full flasher/fly program at first light but to me, I know we have moved rods with spoons at that time too.

Thanks

Tomy

[Missdemeanor]

Tom....try it both ways....what can it hurt? There are some years i couldn't get a bite on a spoon...,two years ago as a matter of fact. Other years i couldnt get a fly bite till mid August.... I am constantly changing stuff to try and get all my rods working...however you need to pay attention to what the bite is telling you...a drastic change could kill the spread altogether

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Edited March 1, 2015 by Missdemeanor

[tlombardozzi]

Thanks Matt, I hear you, my goal this year is to be more consistent in our catches. Looking back I remember mornings where either the riggers or wires suddenly shut off and I wish I would have mixed it up more to get them moving again.

[PD Buoy]

I went to a Dave Mull / Dan Keating seminar a few years ago... they did have a few good tips on rigging, but for the most part it was a forum to showcase their sponsor's equipment....I was waiting for the Slap Chop guy to come out and yell "Your gonna love my nuts".

   I tried to have an open mind about Keating's techniques, but there was a point in the seminar that really put things in perspective. He was talking about running his light line rig. It was a 12 lb test light action rod down the chute rigger and running it with a long lead to the ball. Dan said it was his go to rig for negative Kings. I almost bought into it until someone asked "what do you do when the fleas are bad?" Dan claimed that he just went out to deeper water where the fleas tend to be minimal. Minimal???  Really? Try that in Lake Ontario in late July/ early August. I thought that maybe the secret weapon rig might work. That summer I gave it quite a bit of water time. MY conclusion is that the SWR doesn't really put more fish in the boat. Will it catch fish? Sure it will. Will it out produce a mono rig at the same lead length? From my experience, no. As someone else has previously posted, segmented cores off your boards out on scum lines in Late spring can be deadly on Steelhead, Kings and even suspended Lakers ( who fight pretty good when your not dredging them off the bottom is 120fow).

    Obviously there are some similarities to the techniques used by guys in Michigan and what we use on Ontario. My opinion is that Lake O and Michigan are quite different. Ive fished both bodies and what might light em up on Michigan, might not light em up on Lake O.  Trial and error my friends.... 

   When I started on the Lake, there was no LOU, no internet, and no cell phones.... we all learned by trial and error. Granted our boats were smaller and the gas was cheaper, but at the end of the day it was satisfying that we figured em out by ourselves or with help from a couple of buddies. The upcoming fleet of fishermen are very lucky to have forums like this one. There are experienced guys who come on forums like this one and share information on what works and what doesn't. It cuts down on the learning curve for this ever changing fishery.....   Tight lines and think "spring".

Well Said!!!

[Sk8man]

Missdemeanor sure hit on some great points. The forum is great for picking up tips and best if followed by actual experimentation and assessing the results and then making changes and throwing out the stuff that doesn't produce for another time under different conditions (maybe).  Something very useful can be keeping a notebook of important results along with specific conditions and time of season, time of day, sunny or cloudy, details ,details etc. Yes it takes a little time.....and we've all said "we're going to be too busy fishing to do it" kinda like breaking New Years resolutions   but when the data is looked at over time after a few seasons it all starts coming together and the "ah ha" moments occur. This is what often separates the 10 percent who catch fish 90 percent (or better) of the time. Seminars are great, the books, and videos can be helpful, but this forum is better than both - but there is nothing that beats personal experience combined with an experimental method and constant attention to detail and the flexibility to change  what doesn't actually work. The SWR rig issue is a good example of something that works for some of the people doing some things some of the time....none of these tactics should be considered as a "cast in stone" answer to everything just as someone said earlier just a tool in the arsenal.

Edited March 1, 2015 by Sk8man

[KING ME]

SWR have been around for many years, i can remember over 10 years ago running it down the chute with Shorthanded and woody for this board - smoked the browns and kings on this set up. Like everything else it is a tool of the trade - it will work but has it's time and place that it produces better than another set up. Just like down and outs of riggers or anything else.

Edited March 2, 2015 by KING ME

[Missdemeanor]

10 years ago? Lol.....thats funny...the lake has changed 4 times over since then.... Like ive said previously, the stained water we've been enjoying for the past three years has made things alot different....

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[KING ME]

Realy??? but ALOT HAS NOT CHANGED! just stating that it's nothing new to lake ontario the swr has been around for a number of years and it works.