Fishing eggs in our streams and rivers

[BSmaster]

I understand Rick's point.

 

Ethically, I believe it very disrespectful to discard a fish whether it is just to show your kids to let them know you are manly or if it is only to harvest more fish bait.

 

Logically, A removed fish is a fish removed regardless of whether it is table fare, coon bait, or tomato food.  Gone is Gone.

 

So the quandry for me is that now I have to decide between logic and ethics and then use logic to justify my ethics.  I decided years ago that I will lead by example.  I just do not see how changing regulations will stop people who are normally unethical from being unethical.  Like an old girlfriend once said to me regarding her parents.  "Once a cheater, always a cheater".

[Yankee Troller]

I'd like to repeat that I have no problem with people still using Salmon eggs. So using eggs would still be an option.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Yankee Troller

[Yankee Troller]

I understand Rick's point.

 

Ethically, I believe it very disrespectful to discard a fish whether it is just to show your kids to let them know you are manly or if it is only to harvest more fish bait.

 

Logically, A removed fish is a fish removed regardless of whether it is table fare, coon bait, or tomato food.  Gone is Gone.

 

So the quandry for me is that now I have to decide between logic and ethics and then use logic to justify my ethics.  I decided years ago that I will lead by example.  I just do not see how changing regulations will stop people who are normally unethical from being unethical.  Like an old girlfriend once said to me regarding her parents.  "Once a cheater, always a cheater".

 

There's always going to be people evading paying taxes, but more than the majority follow the law.

[TileMan Dan]

Unfortunately Rich, there are mindsets out there that just don't get it.  Legislation will not change it.  I do understand where you are coming from to eliminate the waste. Ignorance will be a part of our ranks unfortunately.

[Kingfisher06]

You're so far off the point it's ridiculous! You obviously don't know me. I stream fish A LOT when the boat goes away. This has nothing to do with Lake fishing. It would benefit EVERYONE. 

 

You are mislead if you think the Lake guys are putting a hurting on these fish. It's a big lake out there! Look at the DEC numbers. REC guys catching 3 fish per trip. Charters catching 8 fish per trip. I'm gonna be honest with you and say that most charters out there probably shouldn't be chartering if it came down to fishing ability. They just can't catch them, but there is more to it than just catching fish. Not to mention a lot of the charter businesses out there are declining. Put those numbers against the fish that walk off in a stream and river for 6 months and I guarantee more leave the bank of the river than on a boat. The charter and guide businesses are going to be there with or without this reg. It's about protecting a resource.

 

I want people to keep fish for consumption. I DON'T want to lower limits. I want to stop the waste! This is no different than a guy killing a buck just for the antlers and leaving the meat to rot. Is that ethical? No, and either is killing a fish for the eggs and tossing the rest of it.

 

The PROs far out weigh the CONs here, and if you can't see that you're being selfish. I've talked with avid stream guys, and they also see the benefit this would have on the fishery as a whole.

 

The government has already stepped in. You can't sell Trout Eggs because of the same issue. People killing trout just to sell the egg. This would be an extension of a reg already in place. 

 

I'll list the PROs again, and please tell me which one(s) you think are not valid:

 

More food in the stream for the fish throughout the stream season

More angler opportunities throughout the stream season to catch fish

Less careless killing of fish

More opportunity for natural reproduction

I dont care what you do within the limits of the law, on the lake, in the streams and never mentioned a single thing about the effects of charter fishing on fish populations.  You simply wish to pry into the lives of folks through the arm of gov't and say what I ought to be able to do with a fish in my legal possesion.  Typical liberal bologna:  Place a ban on the things you don't like and claim some sort of animal rights, human rights whatever justification in the name of more opportunity for all.  Blah blah blah.  Next time youre pulling your boat out of the water and cant quit get every single shred of algae off your trailer, native species or not, and the DEC officer hands you a fine, make sure you pat your like minded self on the back and say thanks.       

[Yankee Troller]

I dont care what you do within the limits of the law, on the lake, in the streams and never mentioned a single thing about the effects of charter fishing on fish populations. You simply wish to pry into the lives of folks through the arm of gov't and say what I ought to be able to do with a fish in my legal possesion. Typical liberal bologna: Place a ban on the things you don't like and claim some sort of animal rights, human rights whatever justification in the name of more opportunity for all. Blah blah blah. Next time youre pulling your boat out of the water and cant quit get every single shred of algae off your trailer, native species or not, and the DEC officer hands you a fine, make sure you pat your like minded self on the back and say thanks.

I hear ya loud and clear! Basically, you're selfish and ignorant. Great ethics to pass down to future generations!

Honestly, it was just a thought on my part, and most folks here seem to agree with me. I appreciate your feedback though.

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[pvelyk]

While I appreciate what you want to accomplish, I mean who doesn't want better fishing, I have issue of putting another regulation that will hamper honest fisherman and will be ignored by the dishonest.  Honest fisherman are getting to the point to to stay within the rules they need to take a lawyer on the stream with them to interpret their actions and bait/lure choice against the general regulations, special area regulations and time sensitive regulations.  While the dishonest ones have no problem breaking multiple and plain regulations each trip out, I doubt adding another one will make them change their methods, it just makes the good guys struggle to be successful even more.

 

 Most of what you are saying is covered with regulations on limits, fish disposal/possession and eggs rules.  We have a giant problem on the lake and streams in NY and it's not having good regulations in place, it's enforcement and penalties  for breaking those regulations.  I truly believe we need to band together and work on getting the creation of a environmental court the the major lakeside fishing communities with people running the court knowledgeable of environmental concerns and harvesting methods to judge written citations in the proper frame of refernce, similar to how some areas have just a traffic court.  Having these done on regular criminal dockets where judges don't know or understand why treble hooks with weight around them are bad or them thinking  "really I am worried about a guy taking 7 steelhead when I have a rapist and an murder just before this case.".  Maybe once convictions rates go up and responsible fines are attached we will slow down the poaching regardless if it is for eggs or meat to take to NYC.  If we can't get this then at least lobby the current court system to get knowledge of these crimes and treat them seriously.   Adding another law that the resulting ticket is worthless is not going to fix the issues.

 

Again not fighting with the result you want just struggling with the best method to achieve them.

Edited March 25, 2015 by pvelyk

[JakeyBaby]

Absolutely ignorant and selfish, this had nothing to do with what style of fishing you do or where you do it. Pretty much the way I see it is if you are taking a trout STRICTLY for roe you are not taking your limit, you are a murderer!! And to be honest when it comes down to the charters like you speak of......... open your eyes most of these guys do WAY more for this fishery then the state or rec guys will ever do!

[Kingfisher06]

I hear ya loud and clear! Basically, you're selfish and ignorant. Great ethics to pass down to future generations!

Honestly, it was just a thought on my part, and most folks here seem to agree with me. I appreciate your feedback though.

Sent from my XT1080 using Lake Ontario United mobile app

You don't know my ethical stance, other than keeping my nose out of peoples lawful business and not resorting to a nanny state to solve the issues I have with my feelings and emotions.  Whah!   

[Kingfisher06]

Absolutely ignorant and selfish, this had nothing to do with what style of fishing you do or where you do it. Pretty much the way I see it is if you are taking a trout STRICTLY for roe you are not taking your limit, you are a murderer!! And to be honest when it comes down to the charters like you speak of......... open your eyes most of these guys do WAY more for this fishery then the state or rec guys will ever do!

Murderer! Selfish! Ignorant! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH

[specialtee]

I don't see why you couldn't harvest trout. People buy licenses. You can keep what the regs allow. I just hate seeing senseless killing. I have no issues with someone who wants to eat the fish.

so... if someone harvests a female brown, they would not be allowed to use its eggs for bait?  Yeahhhhh right!!!

 

 

just throw them out people!!! lol

[jimski2]

Hatcherys are the source for our trout. We need the funding to keep them operating. License sales make this happen. Natural reproduction adds small forage for the salmon and other predators. Less fishing opportunity results in closing hatchery operations. Dam do gooders are always trying to change things for their own gain as they want the streams to themselves.

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[hawkeye625]

Agree with the original post. 

 

 

Many more positives than negatives with this suggestion.

[Yankee Troller]

Hatcherys are the source for our trout. We need the funding to keep them operating. License sales make this happen. Natural reproduction adds small forage for the salmon and other predators. Less fishing opportunity results in closing hatchery operations. Dam do gooders are always trying to change things for their own gain as they want the streams to themselves.

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You don't think with more fish in the system competing for food that it wouldn't attract people to come up and fish? Explain the less fishing opportunity excuse you're giving?

[baitrigger]

Close down the tribs. Start up a special court that just screws with sportsman. More laws, rules and regs. So if I kill a fish and dont eat it I'm a murderer and a scumbag. Hell how about the ones that swim, then go belly up, during a release. Am I still a murderer? Not being able to sell them is enough.

[Silver Fox]

Your all for yourself rick! You don't give a rats ass about anyone! You should go to jail for what your thinkibf ! How dare you! Lmao!

Some guys just like to be keyboard dicks.......

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[Yankee Troller]

Yea, they can rip apart my idea of a solution, but I haven't heard any of the guys against it come up with a way to curb all the senseless killing that is happening. I guess not acknowledging it, or being selfish takes precedence to being ethical.

[Kingfisher06]

Yea, they can rip apart my idea of a solution, but I haven't heard any of the guys against it come up with a way to curb all the senseless killing that is happening. I guess not acknowledging it, or being selfish takes precedence to being ethical.

You created a problem and have an idea on how to solve it.  Kudos!!!

[Yankee Troller]

You created a problem and have an idea on how to solve it.  Kudos!!!

 

I wish you were as adamant about the fishery, and protecting it, as you are against coming up with a solution.

[Kingfisher06]

I wish you were as adamant about the fishery, and protecting it, as you are against coming up with a solution.

Keep on making assumptions on where I stand to justify your heartwarming efforts to intrude on law abiding folk.  Its actually funny, now. 

What if I told you I think global warming is such an issue that all freshwater boats not exceed 50 horsepower and all my big govt friends agree, and you are murdering mother earth through your stupid, selfish, ignorance.  You wouldnt like a load of crap being weilded through an unaccountable govt would you?  But your feelings and emotions dont extend to mother gaia, but they are in the same exact league.  Give me a break.               

[Silver Fox]

I'm fairly certain your the only one laughing.

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[Yankee Troller]

Keep on making assumptions on where I stand to justify your heartwarming efforts to intrude on law abiding folk. Its actually funny, now.

What if I told you I think global warming is such an issue that all freshwater boats not exceed 50 horsepower and all my big govt friends agree, and you are murdering mother earth through your stupid, selfish, ignorance. You wouldnt like a load of crap being weilded through an unaccountable govt would you? But your feelings and emotions dont extend to mother gaia, but they are in the same exact league. Give me a break.

Every vehicle out the is adding to the pollution. You can't single out one over another.

Yet, still no solution to a growing problem about our fishery.

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[Kingfisher06]

Every vehicle out the is adding to the pollution. You can't single out one over another.

Yet, still no solution to a growing problem about our fishery.

Sent from my XT1080 using Lake Ontario United mobile app

Why not?  Youre singling out one perceived problem over another. 

[Kingfisher06]

I'm fairly certain your the only one laughing.

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If I leaned upon the gov't to solve my perceived problems and jumped on that bandwagon, I'd be at a loss of words as well and definately not laughing. 

[Erskin]

I want extra butter and a large rootbeer.