copper questions for a new guy

[mcconnell14]

Hey, so im sorry if this has been posted a lot of times, but never does it actually answer my questions.

maybe someone can post a good link save some fuss?

 

I'm used to just running mono on the riggers, but would like to get into this copper wire for a new dipsey set up.  I just hear so many different things for different fish/ locations its hard to know where to start.

 

some of my questions may help others aswell..

 

is there kind of special rod do you need? I hear some people say you need a roller rod which are expensive, while others say aslong as the eyes are fairly big and better if metal eyes....

 

 

What is a simple setup for a copper rig with a dipsy ?

 for example i've always just spooled my line up with mono, tied on a snap, then used a flasher with a flouro leader, simple common setup, so I guess my question is do I need to take any precautions before spoiling it on my reel? then do I tie a snap differently to the wire line, or do I use a flouro leader from the wire to the snap/dipsy?

 

I hear people back it with braid what does this mean?

 

 

 

thanks for all your help, im just a new guy at using copper and would like a bit of info before investing into it

 

 

 

[lily]

There is a difference between wire dipsy set up and copper set up. Copper is intended to be flat lines like lead core. Only copper runs deeper than lead. Wire dipsys are stranded stainless steel much like a braided fishline. No stretch and dive harder and deeper than mono with the dipsy. I don't know if you could run a dipsy off a Coper rig the line is petty soft. Maybe you could run it off of lead line too never heard of it being done. Any. Way the wire will leave burs in normal fishing pole eyes increasing the chance of break offs. Lots of people use twilly tips instead of rollers. Don't know if this clears anything up for you. But wire dipsey s and copper aren't the same.

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[lily]

Also tie the main line to the dipsy then run fluro from the dipsy to the spoon. Flasher what ever is behind the dipsy.

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[finsntins]

Like lily said,you want to use s.s. Wire for dipsies,blood run or torpedo are two companies that make it.we run ours on 30 series line counters.1000 ft of wire with no backing fills the reel perfect.twilly tip on the rod.just tie a loop in the wire and run it through the eye of a snap swivel and pull the swivel back through the loop.we run a mono leader as long as the rod length from the dipsey to your lure of choice.blood run has a depth chart to give you an idea of amount of line out to the running depth of the dipsey.when letting the dipsey out.let it out slowly.

[mcconnell14]

hey thanks for the replies. definatly some good info.

ok I was confused between the copper and wire,

definatly looking for some wire for the dipsey, I reside north of Toronto, unfortunately the salmon fishing isn't the great anymore but our lake trout are getting better so id like to get a setup for those slow king days.

 

so I just add the wire to fill the real, tie the dipsy to the wire line, then use what ever type of setup behind it?

 

what sort of knots do you guys like for wire?

[bandrus1]

Braid backing... 1000 ft of wire.. Tie on large clip swivrl .. Connect dipsey.. 10-12 feet heavy fluro then your bait

[Sk8man]

Although a dipsey can be run from either copper or leadcore it may not be the easiest or best option usually. Seven strand stainless steel wire in 30 lb test gets down pretty good with dipseys and 50 lb braid is another option (need to use mono backing underneath it to keep it from slipping on the reel spindle). Both give pretty good control of depth. Neither of these options have much if any stretch in the main line to the dipsey and that is important with dipseys. If you intend to run dipseys off big boards or inline boards braid may be the way to go because unless you are very experienced with wire you'll probably end up kinking and have to cut it. If fishing Lake O and the Finger Lakes you'll be confronting the seasonal problem of water fleas as well and if they are bad they will attach to just about anything so frequent checks of your lines is advisable to avoid major  flea "pileups".  A copper rig is usually used to run single spoons or stickbaits either straight back or down the chute (in back of the prop wash ) OR run from boards by attaching to the mono or braid backing once the length of copper has been fully  let out. The exact length and weight of the copper in conjunction with your boat speed will largely determine the depth at which your lure runs (slower deeper faster higher etc.). Copper wire is relatively soft so special hardened tips or eyes in the rod are not necessary. Stainless stranded wire on the other hand requires either a twilli tip or a roller tip in order to keep your rod eyes and tip from being chewed up. Also be aware that the line guides on some reels can also be cut into if they are not specifically "hardened" ones (e;g; if they are just brass with plating on them).  The length of copper wire used is also a factor to consider  both in terms of reel line capacity and in terms of the reel gear ratio. If you ever pull in a 600 ft copper rig you'll immediately understand why (and end up with Popeye arms as well ). A fluoro leader in desired length (personal preference issue) is attached to the copper wire using specific knots http://www.animatedknots.com/?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.comfor  that purpose or using a small Spro #8 barrel swivel (which will go through most rod tips and eyes) and solid ring ball bearing swivel at the end where the lure is intended to go). Some folks prefer to use just a duolock snap at the end  with a Spro swivel placed a few feet up the line. With a SS wire rig some folks prefer mono over fluoro because they actually want a little stretch from the wire to the dipsey or even to the flasher and then use fluoro just for the lure or fly. I prefer 50 lb mono for the flasher or Spinney to the fly on Lake O and 30 lb for the Finger Lakes. For either a copper rod or wire rod you want something with a good backbone to it but actual length is a personal preference and somewhat also depends onhow your rod holders are set up and what else you are running. I stick with relatively short  6-7 ft rods because I often go solo and it is easier netting fish.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Sk8man

[TyeeTanic]

Where do you fish if you are North of Toronto? Lake O has an awesome salmon fishery. In about 1 month it's going to be on fire across the north shore.

[mcconnell14]

awesome guys, Im from southern Georgian Bay, we had a major salmon crash in 2002-2003, its just now seems to be somewhat rebounding, in the meantime the trout fishing seems to be returning back to its glory days (before my time in he 60's) of great fishing.

 

I don't generally don't use or haven't used boards very often,

 

SK8man, thanks for all that info, just would like to clarify a few things, I doubt i'll use copper at least  for now,i'll  probably going to be with either  ss wire or braid, if I go with the wire, how much mono backing do you suggest? and I understand you tie the dipsy right to the wire line? do I use a snap, (if so any special type) then a heavy mono or flouro leader behind that.

 

thank you.

[Sk8man]

On  rigs with 7 strand 30 lb  SS wire (1,000ft) I use a minimal amount (e.g. 50 ft or so) just to protect the spool spindle of the reel from binding pressure but some guys prefer to tape the wire directly to the spool with electrical tape. The chances of being "spooled" with1,000 ft of wire is pretty remote either way and either way works. The more critical thing with stranded wire is starting it on the spool in alignment with the level wind mechanism so that the wire goes on straight rather than on an extreme angle across the spool starting out. Some folks also run out into deep water before first use and put a heavy sinker on the end and let out a large amount of wire and then reel it back in to compress the wire evenly on the spool. Always remember - to keep tension at all times (even during storage) on the wire or you will have curly q's and kinks in the wire. Always let it out slowly when deploying it and avoid "free spooling" or you will have the worst mess you've seen it is best to gradually loosen your drag and lowly deploy your dipsey. Many people tie their wire right to the sturdy solid ring ball bearing swivel snap using a "haywire" knot but I'm "old school" and still use a wire crimp which I coat fully in transparent hot glue so I can still see inside to monitor the connection.  You should routinely inspect the connection for frayed or broken strands and cut back a small section and redo it if problems are evident. You can use either fluoro or mono from the wire to the dipsey and either for the fly but I prefer 50 lb mono for both because it is fairly stiff (like fluoro) yet has a minimal amount of stretch if a big king jumps on it. The wire obviously has no stretch to absorb impact. Some folks use "snubbers" to allow for some stretch but I got away from them years ago and have never gone back because I didn't feel that I was getting as many good hookups with them but  others on here swear by them...again personal preference.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Sk8man