Out of the little salmon,8/2

[rolmops]

Today was weird upside down fishing with a clearly defined thermocline at roughly a hundred feet down over a 180. We caught 2 decent sized browns on flasher flies well below the thermocline 120 foot down over 140.

We also caught 7 kings on flasher flies ,all around a hundred feet down. The kings were above the browns....

Most boats around us caught zilch or only one or 2 while we were working on a double header. We concluded that it was dumb luck combined with more dumb luck.( there were two of us on board)

We went 9 for 10 . The one we lost came off a few seconds after it hit.

All in all, a great day on the water.

Edited August 2, 2015 by rolmops

[p3434]

Sounds like a great day .😀 thanks for the report .

[p3434]

How were the fleas . R they still thick like last week . Last week had to clean lines every 20 minutes . I'm coming back up on the 10th . I'm thinking about putting 50 lb on downrigger rods , my 30 lb , was getting a lot of fleas on them .

[Rich D]

Fleas have not been bad the last 2 days, did not have any on the 30lb suffix, and only a little on the wire.

Capt Rich

NY Guide Service

Lake Ontario Charters

Salmon River Drift Boat trips

Waterfowl Hunting.

[rolmops]

In the morning there were no flees at all,but later in the day  they sort of came back.

[oscarfish]

Did two in 200ft, 130ft down in front of the plant.

[John Kelley]

Sweet report and great results!!  Any pics??      

[rolmops]

We do not usually take pictures, mostly because we practice catch and release and holding these fish up in the air does not improve their chanches for survival.

[MikeyP]

Today was weird upside down fishing with a clearly defined thermocline at roughly a hundred feet down over a 180. We caught 2 decent sized browns on flasher flies well below the thermocline 120 foot down over 140.

We also caught 7 kings on flasher flies ,all around a hundred feet down. The kings were above the browns....

Most boats around us caught zilch or only one or 2 while we were working on a double header. We concluded that it was dumb luck combined with more dumb luck.( there were two of us on board)

We went 9 for 10 . The one we lost came off a few seconds after it hit.

All in all, a great day on the water.

Great job. What were the waves like out there today?

[chinook35]

Today was weird upside down fishing with a clearly defined thermocline at roughly a hundred feet down over a 180. We caught 2 decent sized browns on flasher flies well below the thermocline 120 foot down over 140.

We also caught 7 kings on flasher flies ,all around a hundred feet down. The kings were above the browns....

Most boats around us caught zilch or only one or 2 while we were working on a double header. We concluded that it was dumb luck combined with more dumb luck.( there were two of us on board)

We went 9 for 10 . The one we lost came off a few seconds after it hit.

All in all, a great day on the water.

Reading your post I am thinking . When you say you were fishing 120 ft down over 140 fow . Did you have 120 ft of downrigger cable out ? or a probe telling you that you were fishing at 120 ft ?  With 120 ft of cable out and depending on your speed , you would actually be fishing at approx. 80 ft . That could account for the browns .

[rolmops]

I can see my downrigger depth on my fishfinder(Furuno 582). With 15 pound torpedoes the blow back is far less than it is with 6 or 9 pound balls. But what you say would make sense with lighter balls

[chinook35]

I can see my downrigger depth on my fishfinder(Furuno 582). With 15 pound torpedoes the blow back is far less than it is with 6 or 9 pound balls. But what you say would make sense with lighter balls

I can understand what you're saying ,  BUT , your fishfinder /sonar is NOT showing the depth of your cannonballs . It is showing the DISTANCE that your cannonballs are from the treansducer . The counter on your rigger should read the same as the distance showing on your sonar . It took me a long tome to get this truth through my head . I use 12 and 15 lb finned balls and find tha it is neccesary to let out a lot more cable than I would have imagined . I bought protractors to measure cable angle and figured out angle to cable length . I find that to fish ,say 100 ft down , it needs 150 ft of cable out . trolling speed and down currents can alter this . I use a Cannon Speed and temp now and it verifies my findings . it sometimes takes 180 ft of cable to reach 100 ft .

[Rich D]

Torpedoes have far less blow back than your finned weights. With the new x4d, depending on current, my counters are off 5-12' at max with the down depth.

Capt Rich.

NY Guide Service

Lake Ontario Charters

Salmon River Drift Boat trips

Waterfowl Hunting.

[FleetTracker]

I saw as much as 22' off using my x4D relative to the Mag 10 counter this weekend reaching 100' actual depth. i.e. 122' of cable out to reach 100' depth actual. This is using 15lb Shark weights which have yielded the least blowback out of any weight I've used. Including torpedo style. Chinook is correct that what you see on your FF is the distance between your ducer and your ball... not actual.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Lake Ontario United mobile app

Edited August 4, 2015 by FleetTracker

[rolmops]

I can understand what you're saying ,  BUT , your fishfinder /sonar is NOT showing the depth of your cannonballs . It is showing the DISTANCE that your cannonballs are from the treansducer . The counter on your rigger should read the same as the distance showing on your sonar . It took me a long tome to get this truth through my head . I use 12 and 15 lb finned balls and find tha it is neccesary to let out a lot more cable than I would have imagined . I bought protractors to measure cable angle and figured out angle to cable length . I find that to fish ,say 100 ft down , it needs 150 ft of cable out . trolling speed and down currents can alter this . I use a Cannon Speed and temp now and it verifies my findings . it sometimes takes 180 ft of cable to reach 100 ft .

Dependent on the quality of your transducer,you are able to see the downrigger cable and the ball. Add to this that the thermocline is clearly visible. Now when I see my torpedo below the thermocline at the bottom of my angled cable,I know exactly how deep my torpedo is. In fact,I usually check the depth of riggers on my fishfinder. When on the Horsin Around we do it with a furuno 582 and when on my Islander I use a Sitex SVS 650 which is just as good if not better than a furuno. As for your calculation of angle and distance. You are still quite a bit off. Blow back does not produce a straight line (cable) and you cannot calculate different currents and relative speed compared to the water speed at different depths.

By the way. Doctor Lou (DRLFC) the Captain of Horsin Around,found a name for my Islander. It will be "Dutch Treat" which goes real well with my "Rolmops"  screen name and, given part of my ancestry, a very complimentary name. Thanks Lou!

Edited August 4, 2015 by rolmops

[chinook35]

Think about this for a second . It took me a long time and a lot of pros telling me ,before I got the picture . I don't mean to lecture .but just take a look at what you said . I use a 200/50 Hz transducer ,which clearly shows my cannonballs and any thermocline . Quality is not an issue . The thermocline is at say 100 ft . , It is not altered by the speed of your troll or cable blow back . Now , you let out 100ft of cable . Your transducer/sonar is showing that your cannonball is 100 ft from the transducer , it also shows the thermocline at 100 ft . It does NOT mean that your trolling at 100 ft depth . It is showing two things 100 feet from the transducer . The sonar will show both objects at 100 ft  They are NOT neccesarily at the same depth

[Rich s]

Think about this for a second . It took me a long time and a lot of pros telling me ,before I got the picture . I don't mean to lecture .but just take a look at what you said . I use a 200/50 Hz transducer ,which clearly shows my cannonballs and any thermocline . Quality is not an issue . The thermocline is at say 100 ft . , It is not altered by the speed of your troll or cable blow back . Now , you let out 100ft of cable . Your transducer/sonar is showing that your cannonball is 100 ft from the transducer , it also shows the thermocline at 100 ft . It does NOT mean that your trolling at 100 ft depth . It is showing two things 100 feet from the transducer . The sonar will show both objects at 100 ft They are NOT neccesarily at the same depth

Humm, thank you very much for that lesson .. I got what you are saying and definitely learned something

[bout time]

Torpedoes have far less blow back than your finned weights. With the new x4d, depending on current, my counters are off 5-12' at max with the down depth.

Capt Rich.

NY Guide Service

Lake Ontario Charters

Salmon River Drift Boat trips

Waterfowl Hunting.

I agree with Rich. I run Torpedos as well and my counters are off less then 12 feet. I have adjusted my counters to make up the difference. So when i see fish or bait  at say 100 feet on my sonar i drop my riggers to 100 feet and am within a couple feet of my target.

[navillus]

Let out cable to desired depth. Run in shore till you hit bottom. Science solved!!!!!!!!

[navillus]

I've seen as much as a forty foot error in the new fishawk X4d. And depending on the amount of cable you install on your riggers. That can alter things as well. Current, speed , direction , style of weight, varying weights lbs. diameter of cable, what your pulling behind it, so many variables.

Just put um where ya se um !

[Adk1]

My head is spinning. I do the same thing watch my shark weights on my screen and I lower them to where I want them. I do see what has been said here measuring the distance between the duper and whatever is under it but isn't that telling us all the info we need? Trying to put the pieces of the pullze together here in comparison to the info from the fish hawk. I will have a fish hawk x4d the next time I fish lake o have already made up my mind on that

[Rich s]

I always thought as been said, if I see my ball on the fishfinder , which I do, I thought that was my depth. Now I get the lesson : your transducer is measuring distance TO the ball not necessarily depth of the ball. I don't know how far blow back I get before my transducer doesn't pick up the ball anymore .

What I seen though was my rigger counter said 110' and my fishfinder showed my ball at about 90-92'

I generally go about 10' deeper on rigger then I wish to be in that type of depth.

All this of course varies on speed & current .

Sorry to get off course of the thread .

Great fishing to you for what was a tough weekend for us in the same area

Rich

Edited August 4, 2015 by Rich s

[chinook35]

Lol. I feel your pain. I felt the same way trying to get my mind around this Thing I started out with simple geometry to figure out cable blow back angles and calculating amount of cable to let out to reach a depth I still have tables I made up for angles from 10 to 45 degrees. The speed n temp took the guesswork out of it I guess my intention was to convince rollmops that he was not trolling at the depth he thought he was Hope I got my point across I should seriously consider investing in sharks they seem to have a lot less blow back. But even they will change from day to day. And even hour to hour depending on speed and down currents

Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United

[TileMan Dan]

What kind of sonar do you run rolmops that you can see your cable? Is it caked with fleas? Please explain.

Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United

[rolmops]

I run a Sitex SVS 650. But it is not so much the sonar,it is the sensitivity of the transducer and the location of the transducer under the keel. I was given a very good airmar transducer that I would never have bought myself because I considered it overkill, but since it was free,I was glad to use it.