Strategy question

[Ddolan]

So I am admittedly a full fledged amateur at this game. I fish out of 19 ft bow rider with 2 riggers and 2 dipseys. No probe. Lowrance elite 4 hdi fish finder. Been out 10 or so times in last 6 or 8 weeks and generally getting 3 or 4 fish which is a pretty good day for me. Last Thursday I went out of olcott about 5 miles east, 5 miles west and between 100 - 300 fow. Not only did I get skunked but in over 4 hours only seen 2 pods of bait on screen and literally no fish. Here's the question.

Seeing that the screen was dead should I have come in earlier and given up ? Should I have drove around until I found bait or fish on screen and then started ? With limited electronics , how do you decide where to start or does everyone just setup and work different directions until you find a decent screen or get some hits. Been running f/f and spoons and doing ok on both so I feel like my speeds and lure mix is at least adequate. Just trying to figure out how to use my time more efficiently by starting in the right conditions. Thanks for any wisdom.

[ReelPower]

If the screen is blank after 30 minutes an no action it's time to pack up and change your depth range. Folks in that area tend to troll north to cover the depth ranges and because the current can rip e/w.

[GlassWater Outdoors]

Hey man whenever you are new to any fishery dont get down on 3 to 4 fish a day. We all have days when we draw a blank. It is just the name of the game no matter what species your fishing for. I have never fished the salmon game before and I am going to try on my own for the next couple of weeks. I would be ecstatic with 3 or 4 knock downs let alone fish. keep up the good work. Like what was said before if it isnt happening in the first half hour go find them. Just NEVER leave fish to find fish! It never works. 

[TyeeTanic]

Could have been fishing in bad temps. Google search Lake Ontario Temp Transects and find the government website. It will help you understand where the food water is if you don't have a probe. Alternatively get yourself a relatively inexpensive Fishhawk TD Probe.

[skipper19]

Sure enough can be a frustrating experience when the fish seem very scarce. It Even happens and becomes more of a head scratcher when in the day before, that same water you boxed out in, is dead. In that case you have a choice to pick up and run or troll to a different location. On limited time, I would burn some gas and head to different water. Also, if there is anyone on your list of buds out there fishing, give them a call and see the results of their location and maybe take a good tip. If they are fishing the same latitude as you and not doing any better you can assume that going deeper water will be the best move. It's a big lake, lots of water to cover, and it feels like you are an ant looking for a piece of sugar in a sand pile. Having a couple friends in the area spread out helps to cover some of that hunting.

If the network of friends is not out there, I will not waste a lot of time in a latitude that is dead. Almost all the time if you go north toward deeper water you will find a temp break that can mean the difference between an empty box or a limit of salmon or steelhead. Quite often you will not find any boats out there, and make you feel like maybe I shouldn't have come out here to find fish, but alot of times folks will just head in and not take the time and gas to run out there. The way the current has been ripping back west along the inside water, it will be quite inconsistent for nutrients, and many times the bait is just not there because of it. I like to find the edge of the Niagara flow in that case, and you most likely will find at least steelhead, and some 2 year old salmon there this time of year. Major kings are going to show up inshore, out of temp a lot in the next few weeks, and early morning is the best time to get them. Nothing really consistent with them, but don't run over them to get to the deep water before at least checking it out for a couple of hours in the morning. Then decide if it's better to run out, or troll out if you have the time.

Mark

[Pa223]

Hey Mark, 

Was interested in what you said about running into a temp break. I am also a newbie and wondering how to find this break that you mention.   I will troll North, but seem to never know where to set up shop.   I do have down temp.

 

Thanks

[Sk8man]

Some very good information and tips have already been offered here but additionally here are some other things to consider as basics.

A major thing to look for is any change whatsoever in the color of the water especially where dark water meets lighter water on the surface ....that can often mean there is a thermal barrier or change present. Sometimes there will be feathering of the surface water on one side but not the other (wind plays a role in mixing and separating water). In the Spring this may be more apparent and the difference in temp may be only a couple of degrees and near shore there may be a mud line present and it pays to fish in and out of the edge of it making "s" turns. Sometimes these thermal change areas seem to "trap" the fish within a break. Sometimes you will also see seagulls located on or near a temp break and frequently a long way from land. There is often bait there and the fish may be nearby.  There are also vertical temperature breaks  which include the "thermocline" which is a dense layer of water that has a rapid change in temperature from the water above or below it.  Often algae  phytoplankton or zooplankton get trapped or reside in this layer so it can show up on the screen of a depth finder.There you look for the greatest amount of temp difference in degrees if you have something to measure it with. For years I have also carried a recording sheet that is set up in 5 ft intervals on a clipboard and before starting trolling I often take a temp profile (lately witha Fishhawk TD) for about100-125 ft down and record these temperatures on the sheet. It is much easier to make decisions when you can see the relationship of the temps rather than just looking at a temp meter and trying to remember what it was at a given depth or going up and down with a rigger probe. On Lake O and other lakes in the Finger Lakes for example there may be strong underwater currents that change and rearrange where the temps are at a given point or time and thus the actual place the thermocline or a temperature break is located is not static and moves from place to place as well as up and down in the water column. Wind can influence these relationships greatly  and especially at different times of the year. Much of Lake O basically resembles a basin on the bottom with little apparent structure such as underwater outcroppings of rocks  although there are places at the edges of the lake that do have usable structure so the currents although strong do not act the same as in places like the Finger Lakes where the steep drop offs and rocks strongly influence the path of the current as well as the way the thermocline travels up and down. You can often tell a lot regarding current strength and direction from the angles of your lines assuming a fairly constant boat speed is maintained.I've always had better luck going against or across current on an angle than trolling with it regardless of body of water I have fished. but others may view it differently or have had different experience.

 

Everyone out there has days when they either can't locate the fish or if located can't get them to bite and it doesn't necessarily mean that you are doing something wrong but it does play on your mind and hopefully will make you pay more attention to detail and fish harder and experiment more and that is very important in accelerating the learning curve. It is also worth mentioning that some of the best fish I've caught over time have come when I wasn't marking them on the screen. Remember that the area the cone angle covers in the water is pretty small really and fish (e.g. salmon) if attracted properly may travel considerable distances rapidly up from the bottom or horizontally to grab something to eat.The information provided by the folks on LOU is largely based on that approach as many of these folks (including me) have been fishing for quite some time and years before the Internet etc.  so direct experience is very important out there supplemented by the information gained here. An added bonus is the fact that a number of the generous charter captains on this website offer very valuable insights based on a much greater sample size of experience than most sports fishermen have accumulated because of the nature of their time out there fishing hard for their customers. Some of this stuff only comes with time spent out there experimenting  and fishing hard and there truly is no substitute.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Sk8man

[Pa223]

wow, that is a lot of information.  Greatly appreciate your responses

[skipper19]

Thanks Les! Very nice explanation! Yes the water looks visibly different and you find "stuff" floating around in the temp breaks. That feathering is very good when the air is just a slight breeze without a lot of wind. If the surface is rough, say more than a foot of waves it becomes increasingly difficult to see the changes. Like Les pointed out, the angle your lines travel right or left in current can often give you subtle indication of a current and temp break. Most notably is the one I mentioned, when as you are trolling north in lake ontario from south shore, you are crossing 90 degrees on the current that runs consistent in the lake. The Niagara flow will be west to east and depending on the temp of the lake in general it will be either far from shore in the middle latitudes as in late summer or nearer shore as in spring and can be influenced greatly in position based in the wind coming from the north and east. That's one of the reasons everyone likes the wind to be west south west. The flow is more consistent if the wind is blowing the same direction as the flow from the Niagara on the west end of the lake especially. Lots of variables to consider. Don't get too hung up on a lot of it, but in the past couple years it hasn't been an easy task to find fish every day. I will say that most of us on here will agree that fishing has been tough for everyone on more occasion than say 3 or 4 years ago. A cycle that occurs from time to time, and I believe in my opinion, we are in one of the down cycles on consistent fishing in lake O for salmon. It's still great fishing in any respect. Just tougher to box out. Some days you still can when in the right place!

Mark