Where are They? The Answer Is

[Organized Chaos]

The Gobbies ate them, because of the mass stocking of the salmon, a fair percentage will make it. Before anyone goes off on this, do your self a favor.. Go in front of you river of choice and drift a minnow and watch your accuviee if you have one. If you don't simply watch the tip of your rod. You will be completly amazed.

Ask yourself why are their DEC Biologist checking you boats at the launches? What's up with the invasive species trash cans at all the state launches? Where are the Smallmouth Bass that used to cruise our shorelines? Ok they got bigger but when is the last time you caught a few smaller ones?

I had a long talk with a biologist will not disclose the major port this took place in, "we have a major problem that we don't know how to deal with."

These things are eating machines guys, no offense to the charter boat guys but they drive right over them on their way to deep water and are clueless to the issue. I get it your paid to catch fish and I respect that. Your next off day follow my advice in the first paragraph, you to will be amazed. I have had a place on Eastern Ontario since 79, Pulaski was a one horse town then and don't want to see it happen again.

I love this fishery and really don't want it to go away but facts are facts.

[GAMBLER]

I perch fish a lot and see how bad the gobies are.  I also work at a water treatment facility that takes water off the bottom of Lake Ontario.  I see thousands a year.  Do I think the gobies are eating the salmon fry, not really.  The gobies have been here since the 90's and we have not had an issue with the salmon population.  The last couple of seasons have been screwy but I do not believe it is due to Gobies.  As for the smallmouth,  there was a big die off due to VHS disease a while ago that caused the crash in the population. 

[Organized Chaos]

I am well aware of the VHS kill, that kill did not have the same effect in Henderson that it did in Mexico Bay but I say again show me a bunch of small ones. As far as the Gobies showing up in the 90's, I think it was 2005 the first published report on them, they are now in mass numbers. The Frye especially the naturals are getting crushed by these things. How's the perch fishing? Check with a biologist on the percentage of returns the last few years. They will answer your question. It's your tax dollars that pay his salary.

[skipper19]

Brown trout and lake trout are eating them....by the 10s of thousands and fat.

The gobies that is.

The trash cans are for seaweed.

I know you can't leave a bait on the bottom for a second and you have gobi slaughter.

I think all the charter captains are aware of the invasive creatures. And yes it is a major problem that has decimated the perch and bass and walleye and northern pike spawning grounds.

At least they have an enemy in the trout and their voracious appetite for the little froggy fish.

[Sk8man]

It is almost human nature to try to figure out problems by attributing a single cause to it but in most cases many different factors may be involved and/or interact to either create or make the problem worse. This situation is probably one of those cases. The bass fishing has deteriorated in many of the lakes in NYS during the past few years not just lake O  and the causative factors are not easily identifiable and some of these places don't have known goby infestations.  This is not to say the gobies aren't part of the equation on Lake O but in terms of the larger picture things like two tough winters back to back may be involved or other sensitivities of the species or viral problems relating to die offs etc. All these invasive species are having SOME effect on the fishery and crashes in the zooplankton populations relating to the zebras straining them in shallow and the Quaggas doing it out deeper aren't helping either. When you knock out a lower level in the food chain (especially those that impact the young of the species) and introduce predatory invasive species as well it sets u a complex problem and I believe that is what we have here and I don't think the biologists have a sufficient understanding of it or even have identified all the "players" yet in terms of invasive species and their habits or effects on the fishery. Gobies are also often found in the stomach contents of smallmouth bass.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Sk8man

[GAMBLER]

Perch populations are affected by Alewive numbers.  Gobies would have more of an effect on spawning Bass and perch than salmon fry.  More salmon are Pen reared now which increases their chance for survival. 

Edited August 21, 2015 by GAMBLER

[Organized Chaos]

Not to argue, pen reared for how long, to what size? And released where?

[GAMBLER]

Here is a quote from the state of the lake meeting minutes about gobies:

"Round goby is an invasive species first reported in

southwestern Lake Ontario in 1998 and in the Bay

of Quinte in 1999 (Mills et al. 2005). Gobies

increased in distribution, abundance, and biomass

throughout Lake Ontario, peaking in 2008, and

remaining at a variable, lower level since"

 

Gobies were found in Lake Ontario in the 90's (1998) like I stated above and their population peaked and is lower.  If your "theory" had any merrit to it, we would have had dismal returns of kings and crap fishing long before last year and this season.  How would we have had STELLAR salmon fishing in 2012 by your "theory"????  The pen reared fish are kept for three weeks to a month and are big enough at release to not be eaten by a goby. 

Edited August 21, 2015 by GAMBLER

[KilliansRed]

The DEC people that checked my boat at the launch were looking for any weeds or plants that had stuck to my boat. It had to do with the new law that was enacted a few months ago. I agree with what skipper19 said, browns and lakers are eating gobies at a ridiculous rate. There is a reason my best spring brown lure is gold. As for the trash cans they have all been for unused bait fish in addition to invasive species. Are the gobies a problem? Yes. Ill be happy as long as those jumping asian carp dont get into the lake.

http://www.dec.ny.gov/press/97442.html 

[Rich s]

Not to get far off topic but trying to learn and understand in my sophomore season.

Question :

Have the lake trout stocking increased as a predator to control gobies ?

I recall lakers in streams in the the fall in the 80's then they were and use this term loosely , " decimated " . Now it seems like a viable option to gobie control and represent a " sport " fishery .

I love laker fishing , do it all the time all winter on ice but haven't reall set out an established trolling program on the Great Lake yet . Is that the future we are heading ?

Thanks

Rich

[Gill-T]

Gobies don't leave the lake floor.  Salmon and trout are pelagic.  I would say the goby effect on salmon and trout has been positive.  The only drawback I can see is they are carriers of VHS and can pass it up the food chain.  High in thiamine....good.  Easy to catch by predators....good.  Filled a niche left by huge decreases in shiner levels....good.  Lake Erie has millions of them but walleye and perch have learned to coexist.  Lake Ontario bass and walleye will "figure it out" IMO.

[GAMBLER]

They increased the number of lakers stocked to increase the amount of natural reproduction in Lake Ontario. 

[Organized Chaos]

Gambler, I appreciate your persistence. If you think pen rearing a fish for three weeks is going to increase the frye beyond the size of the Goby's capacity your delusional. Ever see the Kings being stocked? How big are they? I hope your right.

[GAMBLER]

I see them when they go in the pens and when the come out.  Kings grow fast.  They are fed well.  Another thing to debunk your theory is the amount of 1 year old kings in the lake.  There has been plenty of small kings around the past couple seasons.  How could this be if the gobies ate them? 

[Organized Chaos]

Again because of the mass stocking, many make it. Many don't. I quoted a DEC Biologist not my theory dude.

[GAMBLER]

I would love to have the name of this Biologist you talked with.  If you have it, feel free to PM me the name. 

[Organized Chaos]

Yeah wait for it

[Organized Chaos]

Gotta open your eyes, the Great Lakes will overcome this issue but it is an issue we as sportsman can't deny it. I don't want to see the Gambler riding the one horse. Lol have a good night.

[Xxx]

I have been watching this show called "invaisive species of the Great Lakes" it is a very in detailed show. One of the concerns was the slimey gobie. They claim and had underwater cameras, it was a grew some sight. 1st was the amount of these little critters, they claim there is 1 gobie for every square yard of the entire floor of LakeO , they also showed a male small mouth trying to protect the nest of eggs. He tried so hard for days that the fish died from exhaustion, and the gobies ate the entire batch of eggs. The good news is that some of the species of fish are gorging themselves with the slippery little critters but the word little may not be the right term as there have been reports of 8/10" gobies being caught!! With the bass walleye and the entire trout species gorging themselves has made it more difficult for the angler. Most people use the excuse that the species they are targeting are gone, " the gobies cleaned them out" there has been some natural reproduction among the salmon due to the Kings gorging themselves with the gobies on the way into the rivers or during the spring months, long story short is the biologist know that their best gun for defense is the fish that swim in the waters of LakeO. Personally I'm 50/50 with who's winning the gobie, or their predators. They are working with a gobacide something like what they are using, the lamprecide. Just because the fish aren't biteing doesn't mean they aren't there.

[Gator]

Not to get off topic, but if anyone is interested, the latest issue of Science has a series of special articles on the health of our forests, with the primary emphasis being the influence of invasive species and changing environmental conditions. It's not Lake Ontario, but many of the problems are the same. 

 

It's unfortunate that we need to "manage" ecosystems, but when you destroy something that took millions of years to find the right balance, it's not going to right itself easily. If ever.

 

The other thing my wife reminds me of constantly is that "Nature deals in calamities". True that. But I don't have a million years left to let Nature right the ship...

[Organized Chaos]

Pap, I saw the Gobie in action on accuview was amazed at how persistent these things are with Med size shinner and good size crabs. Yes when a fish gets to a certain size these things are like steroids for many of the fish. The salmon frye must run the gauntlet of these things, the return numbers for kings are down, period. Years we have had great natural numbers, the years of the low water not so good.

My screen shows the Kings just like yours, trying to get them to take is the best part of the game. The whole point of this post is to discuss the issues of the Goby. One guy points out salmon and trout are not a bottom feeders. Not to many Lakers high in the water column. DEC may just have to increase their numbers to get a higher return. The shoreline spawning fish have a much more difficult time with these things. I don't know how deep the gobies can be found, my personal experience with them has never gone past 30' or so.

The simple fact is these things are a issue and we all really hope a solution is on the horizon. Lake Ontario has gone through so many changes in the 40 years I'm fishing it loss of the major smelt runs, loss of the emerald shinner the zebra Mussle now these things. Just before my time the biggest commercial fishery on the big O was the Blue Pike anybody catch one of those lately?

[Gill-T]

 Your screen name suits you.  You are rambling good man......go fishing.

[Organized Chaos]

Thanks Gill T I just may do so.

[Organized Chaos]

For Gobies of course, I am fishing with The Gambler he runs the best best Goby Charter on the Lake. Lmao!!

[skipper19]

Should we have a lake wide goby tournament that spans 3 months? Payouts based on daily weight. Suki rigs up to 50 hook points? ..:blink:...nah that would sink the boat with stinking gobies ...maybe 45 hooks.

Ok I'm gonna go eat my freshly popped corn now..