where are the salmon

[Rich s]

Well Rich, the feds have been trying to revive lake trout to native sustainable status in the Great lakes including Ontario since the late 1950's when the Great lakes Fishery Commission got started with the Charter to turn things around from the polluted waste lands that the GL's had become and improve the habitat to where lake Trout and Atlantic Salmon would once again swim and be self sustaining.

Obviously that hasn't worked out too well. They loaded the lake in the 70's 80's and 90's with 1.5 mill a year, then started backing them down to 1/2 a Mill, had some hatchery issues where most of the allotment didn't get planted, and then fired up the big numbers again...all the while never having enough measurable success in sustaining wild stocks to end stocking.

I guess we are going to hear encouraging news on the latest wild repo results, but who knows if they have found a break through. Personally I've never bad mouthed Lake Trout, they are a beautiful fish, and yes they get big out here. Are they fun to catch trolling...not so much, but if people would pull up in open water and jig for them like the Finger Lakes, you'd have a whole new experience, and they would become a much more targeted species. Setting the hook on a 20 pounder in 100 foot of water on a medium action rod, and you are in for a lot of fun...jus sayin'

Awesome feedback . The 60's history of the lake was before my time . Cut my teeth with carp and trib run striped bass in early 70's in my back yard and then migrated to the GL tribs in 80, steelhead 1986 salmon

Lake trout are pretty fun as all heck in 100 fow through a 6" hole with a short pole firm and feisty.

Get the point on the troll but honestly trolling is , well trolling. I always kill the motor to play the fish be it a blue gill or chinook salmon .

You made me laugh about jigging them on the Great Lake Ontario .

All my few season trips last year I had a 38" rod with 3/4 oz buck tail jigs and plenty 1 oz Swedish pimples on board . Got to intimidated to toss them out .

Next season I think during our swim shut down from trolling times would be perfect . Still learning

Thanks

I hear the salmon are here , where are the trout !!

[Rich s]

Nice pics, Skipper. I would guess they are from 2011 or 2012. In 2012 anglers got a taste of what it would be like if the lake actually had a population of King Salmon in a decent predator to prey ratio. It was the result of a super natural repro year class. The entire lake saw them as 2 yr olds in 2011, 3 yr olds in 2012, and 4 yr olds in 2013. In  a normal healthy population, the 3rd year class will always be the largest represented as mature fish. If a certain year class is huge, that leaves a greater number of those fish as 4 yr olds--it's a numbers game. Today with smaller populations of each year class and relentless intelligent pressure(who can blame us--they are the best) on the Salmon, the number of the normally small percentage that reach age 4 is extremely low. I guess we can hope for another big hatch, or work to see that the stocked Salmon are actually healthy enough or protected enough(pen projects) so that more can contribute to the fishery and more can make it to age 4. It's a numbers game, plain and simple.  

As for that large stocking cut--it actually wasn't as large as the DEC wanted. They were shocked that despite their relentless scare tactics the fishery congress( I was a member) chose a reduction plan that also included a reduction in Lake Trout stocking. Congress members were educated that it actually was the Alewife that was the "bad guy", and not the King Salmon. If you were a trib guy, more King Salmon in the lake meant less Steel harvested in the lake; if you were a perch or walleye guy, more King Salmon meant some kind of control of the Alewife and gave the hatches of these fish a fighting chance; if you were a southshore restaurant or motel owner it was a no brainer--the Salmon get people to come here--in droves. There was no option to leave stocking alone. Some of us believe with every fiber of our being that it was the beginning of an attempt to wean anglers off of Pacific Salmon. The cut was devastating, and not until pen projects got rolling and base flows changed did the Lake Salmon fishing improve.

As for the hatchery space, the extra space wasnt used for anything else after the cut was made. There were actually TWO Salmon rearing hatcheries--the Caledonia hatchery was taken out of the Chinook rearing business. I know one thing, if Bill Pearce was alive today he would be sad. He was the fishery chief who brought Pacific Salmon to NY waters, and he was damn proud of the program and not just for the biological benefits but the vibrant sportfishery it brought to the open lake. 

In order for anglers to experience decent open lake catch rates, the density must be there. When adult Salmon are in close proximity of good numbers of other adults they become extremely competitive and at times, easier to hoodwink and catch. When solitary, a returning open lake King Salmon is as moody and cagey as a top end predator gets.  

As well AWESOME response ..

Thank you..

[Missdemeanor]

Great Link by Runnin Rebel.....https://twitter.com/Rebel_Charters/status/641941472556773376/photo/1

 

Every person on this board should be a member of LOTSA, ELOTSA, or the Genesse Charter boat association. Time to bring the sport angler and charter guys together. We all have the same goal..... More Kings...  

 

Thanks for the great posts Vince....

[dvdegeorge]

Great info, nice reading has anyone fished today. Plan on going Saturday .

Fished yesterday afternoon 4pm till 8:30 caught one teenager,it's not good what's happening this fall

[pvelyk]

Great Link by Runnin Rebel.....https://twitter.com/Rebel_Charters/status/641941472556773376/photo/1

 

Every person on this board should be a member of LOTSA, ELOTSA, or the Genesse Charter boat association. Time to bring the sport angler and charter guys together. We all have the same goal..... More Kings...  

 

Thanks for the great posts Vince....

 

Seems like New York State government loves to bend to loud special interests groups.  Maybe we can band our member Associations together and get on the radar and start forcing some positive changes.  

[Silver Fox]

We all need to put that link up on our Facebook page and hammer them about the second hatchery.

silverfoxcharters.net

[pvelyk]

I know this is a niave thought but seeing Powder Mills go from the state to a private non profit is there any possibly of doing this to another hatchery or maybe partnering up with powder mills to add some capacity? Obviously money issues would have to be worked out but would beyond that would something like this be possible or would there be hurdles and road blocks put in by DEC not wanting others in there game?  I thought there was on non government hatchery in use in Canada, correct?

[Patriot]

Great Link by Runnin Rebel.....https://twitter.com/Rebel_Charters/status/641941472556773376/photo/1

 

Every person on this board should be a member of LOTSA, ELOTSA, or the Genesse Charter boat association. Time to bring the sport angler and charter guys together. We all have the same goal..... More Kings...  

 

Thanks for the great posts Vince....

I agree. Either become a member of one of these fine groups or donate $$ to the net pen projects. If the feds could open up and protect more spawning grounds, that would be a great step forward to more repro

[GAMBLER]

I know this is a niave thought but seeing Powder Mills go from the state to a private non profit is there any possibly of doing this to another hatchery or maybe partnering up with powder mills to add some capacity? Obviously money issues would have to be worked out but would beyond that would something like this be possible or would there be hurdles and road blocks put in by DEC not wanting others in there game? I thought there was on non government hatchery in use in

Canada, correct?

I mentioned Powder Mill two years ago at the state of the lake meetings and they said they did not want to have kings there because it was private and could affect Browns that they stock from there......

[pvelyk]

Brian,

 

Theoretically could a private group source there own eggs/ fry and become a hatchery?  I know there would be some regulatory rules that would have to be met but could it be done or is NY State the only entity that could / can legally stock fish in to public waters?  

 

Because heck forget the eggs from NY state early runners this type of situation would allow for the influx of some new west coast eggs and there much needed new genetics. 

 

 

Of course this is all pie in the sky because some many things would have to come together with funding, staffing, regulatory approval but it would be nice to have another game in town.

[rolmops]

Powder mills and Caledonia are both VHS free and the DEC wants to keep it that way. In order for them to stock kings they would have to get VHS free fry. Altmar is infected. The alternative is west coast fry.

Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United

[Missdemeanor]

Your on to something Rolmops... What about having VHS Free...west coast fertilized eggs sent to Caledonia and having VHS Free fish , New genes, and fish that might actually stage somewhere else but the Salmon river...... Just a thought.... This thread is awesome.... Some great ideas....

Sent from my VS980 4G using Lake Ontario United mobile app

[jboto18466]

Any word on salmon staging? I checked he Witacker's site and their report stated that they were....any information on this would be greatly appreciated as I intend to be there for the weekend.

Thank you,

[Silver Fox]

Any word on salmon staging? I checked he Witacker's site and their report stated that they were....any information on this would be greatly appreciated as I intend to be there for the weekend.

Thank you,

Ask that on a different thread.

silverfoxcharters.net

[Gill-T]

Ask that on a different thread.

silverfoxcharters.net

 

Forum Nazi......no scoop for you !!

[reeldilemma33]

😂

Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United

[john1947]

Wonder how a new walleye hatchery for lake ontario would go over,kings are great but nothing better eating than walleye

[Silver Fox]

Forum Nazi......no scoop for you !!

Lol. I didn't want it to get off track.

silverfoxcharters.net

[RD9]

If you want walleyes drive to Erie. It keeps getting better and lots of steelies, Browns and lakers. Laker fishing is crazy good. My family and friends come up 3 times a year to Lake Ontario and for one reason only. Kings. Nothing better then feeling one screaming a reel. We were in Olcott last weekend one major in 20 hrs plus of fishing, but did do a bunch of two year olds out deep.

[CaptDennis]

Well the Kings showed up tonight too bad the weather is going down hill

[GAMBLER]

Someone mentioned a method that would disinfect the eggs (it is used in another state).  They circumvented that question at the State of the Lake meetings a couple years ago.  If the DEC cared about the king fishery, they would be open to ideas and willing to make a change. 

[GAMBLER]

Brian,

 

Theoretically could a private group source there own eggs/ fry and become a hatchery?  I know there would be some regulatory rules that would have to be met but could it be done or is NY State the only entity that could / can legally stock fish in to public waters?  

 

Because heck forget the eggs from NY state early runners this type of situation would allow for the influx of some new west coast eggs and there much needed new genetics. 

 

 

Of course this is all pie in the sky because some many things would have to come together with funding, staffing, regulatory approval but it would be nice to have another game in town.

If they would do this, we could do fundraisers and derbies to support the hatchery.    Isn't there a ton of money sitting in the Conservation Fund right now?  There were talks about a Niagara hatchery years ago.  That got shot down for BS reasons.  Why couldn't we outsource the raising of the fish to the Powder Mill Staff?  Make it a salmon only hatchery and raise the browns from Powder Mill elsewhere. 

[dvdegeorge]

All great ideas and worth bring up but until we get Albany's ear on our side nothing will be done. 

[pvelyk]

If they would do this, we could do fundraisers and derbies to support the hatchery. Isn't there a ton of money sitting in the Conservation Fund right now? There were talks about a Niagara hatchery years ago. That got shot down for BS reasons. Why couldn't we outsource the raising of the fish to the Powder Mill Staff? Make it a salmon only hatchery and raise the browns from Powder Mill elsewhere.

If all the lake fishing so groups bought in to banding together and doing fundraisers and tourneys amongst other this, maybe a first step towards a bigger picture would getting the DEC to accept a donation of the groups buying and getting here west coast eggs. It might not solve all our problems but it would bring new genetics in and be an finically a first obtainable step for the groups to us as a pilot program. Plus it would a smaller less threading step to get cooperation with the hatchery and DEC guys. It wouldn't have to be just fisherman getting on board as a lot of businesses that rely on the fishery would be wise to add there support both politically and financially.

Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United

[rolmops]

Powder Mills hatchery is a privately owned hatchery. It is not interested in making money. It is mostly interested in letting children enjoy  the outdoors. Our king stocking emergencies are not their emergencies.

Powder Mills is mostly the goodwill enterprise of one Rochester industrialist and his philantropy is towards keeping an old hatchery alive and keeping  kids happy, so including this hatchery in stocking kings (which is mostly done for people who can afford to troll) is not what they are interested in.

A few years ago I tried to raise their interest towards stocking I-creek with atlantics and the they did not even bother answering my requests.

Edited September 12, 2015 by rolmops