DEC response to Salmon Numbers

[john1947]

Awhile ago someone mentioned problems with pen raising salmon due to waste buildup around pens.maybe we could somehow install cisculator pumps to keep the water in the pens fresh and cut down on disease and raise servival..As far as lakers i wonder howmany released lakers make it ,its a long way down for them.I think it s better to keep what you catch and call it a early day when limited

[Missdemeanor]

John... When we released the steelhead I think we only had a couple dead ones.... Pretty good survival rate.... The real issue is the cormorant predation. Nothing I'd like better than if the DEC opened up a season on those suckers.... I'd spend a Lot of money on steel shot!

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[GAMBLER]

Awhile ago someone mentioned problems with pen raising salmon due to waste buildup around pens.maybe we could somehow install cisculator pumps to keep the water in the pens fresh and cut down on disease and raise servival..As far as lakers i wonder howmany released lakers make it ,its a long way down for them.I think it s better to keep what you catch and call it a early day when limited

The pens must be cleaned with a brush on a pole. We do it at the Sandy Creek pen rearing project. As for laker survival, as long as you don't horse them up, burp them if they are full of air, and revive them it's pretty good. If you do not take care of them, the will float.

[dvdegeorge]

We had nearly 100 % survival in the Genny this past year. A few floaters the last day less than 200 out of 85,000 fish.

The DEC came the day before and took samples for weight and size and used a drug to immobilize the sample fish so that may have caused the few that died the last day. 

[chinook35]

Every time the charters went out and could not find kings, they went after the lakers. Of course this influences the laker numbers.

The massachussetts fisher men always said that there are plenty of cod and that their DEC was just plain wrong and/or stupid for trying to protect cod. Now the Gulf of Maine is closed because there are no cod left. Denying facts does not change them no matter how convenient that might be.

So he did not say what you wanted to hear. Does that mean that it is not true?

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[chinook35]

The cod on Georges Bank and the Gulf of Maine were decimated by the factory shops from other nations. I fished for a lot of years with the Yankee Fleet out of Glouster MA The captain of the boat told us that each of these huge factory ships carried several trawlers which they would deploy when on the fishing grounds these ships depleted the Atlantic cod and now there is no cod to catch And as for LT the charter captains are welcome to my share any time I would rather catch a 10 inch perch

Better fight and much better table fare

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[rolmops]

The cod on Georges Bank and the Gulf of Maine were decimated by the factory shops from other nations. I fished for a lot of years with the Yankee Fleet out of Glouster MA The captain of the boat told us that each of these huge factory ships carried several trawlers which they would deploy when on the fishing grounds these ships depleted the Atlantic cod and now there is no cod to catch And as for LT the charter captains are welcome to my share any time I would rather catch a 10 inch perch

Better fight and much better table fare

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The big problem with cod in the gulf of maine in the nineties and the first years of this century  was that everybody accused everybody else of destroying the stocks and nobody wanted to give an inch. Every year the DEP (Mass DEC) would come out with guidelines that were mostly showing which lobby was the most powerful and which politician had the most leverage. And then there were the Grand fathered fishing permits. The last time I fished out of Gloucester  was on the first day of the gill netting season. The number of nets that had been set out between midnight and sunrise was staggering. They were all Gloucester residents nets. No big commercial fishing companies. The captain of my charter (Kevin Twomble the owner of Kayman Charters) explained this to me. He also offered me a free trip to make up for having taken me out on this day.

Edited October 10, 2015 by rolmops

[Trouthunter]

I THINK WE NEED NEW GENES FROM ALASKAN FISH OUR SALMON ARE NOT PRODUCING THE FISH WE USED TO CATCH YEARS BACK NEED SOME NEW GENES IN THE MIX CAN ONLY HELP

[GAMBLER]

I THINK WE NEED NEW GENES FROM ALASKAN FISH OUR SALMON ARE NOT PRODUCING THE FISH WE USED TO CATCH YEARS BACK NEED SOME NEW GENES IN THE MIX CAN ONLY HELP

Alaskan genetics would not work since they spawn in the summer. 

[Trouthunter]

DID THE SALMON STOCKS COME FROM ALASKAN FISH IF NOT CAN NOT THE EGGS BE MODAFIDE SOME THAT THEY WOULD SPAWN IN THE FALL

[Missdemeanor]

DID THE SALMON STOCKS COME FROM ALASKAN FISH IF NOT CAN NOT THE EGGS BE MODAFIDE SOME THAT THEY WOULD SPAWN IN THE FALL

  I believe they were from Washington State....But I could be mistaken. 

[rolmops]

Is there any communication between the people who

 

DID THE SALMON STOCKS COME FROM ALASKAN FISH IF NOT CAN NOT THE EGGS BE MODAFIDE SOME THAT THEY WOULD SPAWN IN THE FALL

The egg DNA is constantly modified in every generation through the survival of the fittests principal. Your Alaskan summer spawner fry would not survive to reproduce because of the high summer temperatures in Upstate NY. It would be possible to import Alaskan fry every year and use this instead of Altmar products. Altmar would be used  to raise this fry. It would be possible using strain mixing (but not easy) to reset their biological clock and by using artificial daylight and temperature cycles, but now you are talking big money. On the other hand, 80 pound salmon would very much increase Lake Ontario fishing popularity. Heck even the 2 year olds would be monsters.

That would justify buying a new boat.

Edited October 11, 2015 by rolmops

[Capt Vince Pierleoni]

Rolmops, those 80 lbers of which you speak reach those weights because they are a longer lived strain-7 yrs to return. The 2 yr olds would not be necessarily any larger than our 2 yr olds. The 4 yr olds in Lake Ontario are still behemoths, deep bodied tanks with huge tails and fins. More of each class needs to survive so the 4 yr portion is larger. The cormorants and skilled anglers are cropping the new lower survival amount. Survival must be increased as priority one.  

[greenhornet73]

I thought the fish responded to water temps to determine when to spawn?  If that were the case then wouldn't Alaskan salmon genetics not be affected by our later spawning season?  I do understand the philosophy that Lake Ontario salmon have evolved over the years to survive in their current environment where a new strain may fail here but I don't necessarily agree with the water temp issue.  Would like to see them grow a little bigger though like we used to see 'em.  I haven't caught a 30#er in 5 years or better.  Maybe throw a batch in here and there and see what happens rather than putting all the eggs in one basket?

[rolmops]

Would towing the cages to let's say a quarter mile out into deeper water improve their chances as far as the cormorants are concerned? And would this be a feasable action without having to fight for different numbers of stock? Or would they now become a feast for other hunters?

[Capt Vince Pierleoni]

I thought the fish responded to water temps to determine when to spawn?  If that were the case then wouldn't Alaskan salmon genetics not be affected by our later spawning season?  I do understand the philosophy that Lake Ontario salmon have evolved over the years to survive in their current environment where a new strain may fail here but I don't necessarily agree with the water temp issue.  Would like to see them grow a little bigger though like we used to see 'em.  I haven't caught a 30#er in 5 years or better.  Maybe throw a batch in here and there and see what happens rather than putting all the eggs in one basket?

While a good thought, it won't happen due to egg disease issues/concerns. To solve the "eggs in one basket" issue, the DEC needs to set up an additional hatchery for Chinook production. Yes, it would be ideal if Altmar could get it done but it has proven to fail in too many seasons(egg eye up, cold water and flow problems causing issues, space issues in Spring with Steelhead arriving). Some here have suggested utilizing more of the eggs and sperm from the NY/Ontario wild strain. I think this is a great idea as a higher percentage of those return as 4 yr olds and are better adapted to this climate and prey varieties.

[Capt Vince Pierleoni]

Would towing the cages to let's say a quarter mile out into deeper water improve their chances as far as the cormorants are concerned? And would this be a feasable action without having to fight for different numbers of stock? Or would they now become a feast for other hunters?

Plans are already being made to try to minimze the impact of cormorants in this area. I'm not sure if going far out in the lake is the answer as that opens them up to other predators. What definitely needs to happen immediately  all over the Lake is high impact cormorant control. These devils are eradicating alot more than just Chinook plants.

[greenhornet73]

4 year old fish, that's what I'm talking about!  I don't know enough about how to make that happen but if the DEC can solve that one it would be awesome.  Therefore, I like the theory.

[GAMBLER]

If you read the answers from Lapan, the one that concerns me the most is his answer that brings up charters fishing lakers.  If you read the objectives for lake trout restoration, the plan only allows for a certain number of lake trout to be harvested between US and Canada.  If too many are harvested, what is the plan?  Drop the limit to one? If they dropped it to one laker per person, this would allow the lake trout numbers to increase big time.  If we had years of good king fishing and no one was keeping lakers, the population would explode.  This would not be good for baitfish levels. 

[greenhornet73]

I never really understood the reason to keep lake trout in the first place?  It keeps customers happy to catch and bring home fish but honestly aren't they awful to eat? I never have tried them smoked but everything else I have tried has failed.  If  anyone wants to share a good recipe let me know and I will start fishing them again in the finger lakes.

[Missdemeanor]

Greenhornet73.... To keep this topic on point....I will pm you how I cooked one this year.

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[brucehookedup]

I double that "troubles".

[hunterangler7]

we've had a "normal" winter, when fishing is.... "at its best" ........ stop pollution

 

 

i've noticed 5 years of poor/terrible tributary fishing, then 5 yrs outstanding...... we're on the 5 terrible yrs now, however, that doesn't account for the lake

fishing........

Edited October 12, 2015 by hunterangler7

[Gill-T]

Would towing the cages to let's say a quarter mile out into deeper water improve their chances as far as the cormorants are concerned? And would this be a feasable action without having to fight for different numbers of stock? Or would they now become a feast for other hunters?

I have thought about this a lot. Getting the babies out into the blue zone where bug life is greatest would be beneficial. Not having to run the gauntlet of browns, cohos and laker predators in the spring would be beneficial. Moving the fish from 60 degree harbor water into 40 degree lake water might just kill them all. Better to hide in the brown shore water with the other bait seems to be the best scenario.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Gill-T

[troubles]

Time will tell.

Oh by the way, I volunteered for the the pen rearing project,did you?

And who you talking to? If it's me I worked on Oswego's pens and donated $145 directly to the funds for automatic feeders. Did you fish any tournaments in 2015? Or donate any money?

Edited October 12, 2015 by troubles