DEC response to Salmon Numbers

[hunter59]

Davy your comment about the perch population is wrong. You may be able to catch perch by the bucket fulls but the population is down compared to 5-10 years ago. Cormorant predation, over harvest, gobies eating yoy perch and alewives eating newly hatched fry. I spend the entire fall chasing perch and have seen a drastic decline over the last ten years. The runs in the Greece ponds in the spring were way down and Ibay was dead compared to the past.h

Edited out & warned

Edited October 22, 2015 by L&M

[MikeyP]

Actually I counted 43 people but that includes the hatchery and associated people! So yes not a large turnout! 

 

A few statements and discussions with region 7 people:

 

3.5 million Chinook eggs taken so far. They plan to take more a little later. They modified the check they do on the male sperm by checking all that they will use this year to make sure it's good.

 

They are presently taking Coho eggs and mentioned that the male sperm has issues and are trying to find out why they are shooting blanks ! Their term not mine.

 

They realize that there were issues with Chinook numbers and size this year. Didn't mention anything about last 2 winters as a cause for reduced catch numbers.

 

Made statements regarding the Cormorant control only on Oneida lake that they do. Birds are getting smarter and avoiding their boat. Said they weren't a part of any  other area control. 

 

Apparently they stocked brown trout without the barge do to weather conditions at scriba Launch and they were decimated by the birds. 

 

Other items discussed briefly were Lamprey control and possible vitamin issues.

 

Jump in if I missed something guys !

 

Greg,

Was that brown trout stocking at Scriba this year? Are they planning on restocking due to the decimation by the birds? You would think that they would know better and put the stocking off until better weather conditions? Isn't there a back up plan for these situations? Geez!

[Capt Vince Pierleoni]

I'm encouraged with what I have heard from and about the new hatchery manager. I'm also happy to hear that the DEC acknowledged the poor returns the last 2 years and have already started to make changes.

The cormorants will be a problem from now on, and it will take alot of effort from all of us so they don't get the stocked fish. Their predation is much worse than what we thought, and that was already a huge concern. More volunteers will be needed at the stocking sites than in the past, and the DEC will probably have to rethink some of their normal practices.

Some contingency plans had to be put into place in the western tribs as when low water was found stocked Steelhead would hold in what deep pools they could find and wait for rain. Unfortunately the Cormorants would get them before the flow would come. 

I definitely have not experienced reduced fighting capabilities by any of the popular species, I feel most of this can be attributed to warm water temps which saps their strength much quicker.   

[GAMBLER]

I'm glad to read this about the meeting. I'm glad they are already looking into fixing the issue. In the past, I feel they had the attitude of we will see what happens. I wonder what is causing sterile coho? Could it be they are king/coho cross breeds? Interesting.

[Missdemeanor]

If they offered permits to harvest Cormorants, I'd be first in line to get one.....

Sent from my VS980 4G using Lake Ontario United mobile app

[GAMBLER]

If they offered permits to harvest Cormorants, I'd be first in line to get one.....

Sent from my VS980 4G using Lake Ontario United mobile app

You and me both Matt.

[Sk8man]

The cormorants are doing their stuff on the Finger Lakes as well now. IT is hard to believe those lousy things are protected.

[troubles]

Greg,

Was that brown trout stocking at Scriba this year? Are they planning on restocking due to the decimation by the birds? You would think that they would know better and put the stocking off until better weather conditions? Isn't there a back up plan for these situations? Geez!

Yes 2015 Mike. Hopefully they will have good weather in 2016 to allow use of the barge for the brown stocking.

[salmonboy41]

You and me both Matt.

I bet within a week we could do noticeable clean up on those thinks.

Edited October 26, 2015 by salmonboy41

[Missdemeanor]

I bet within a week we cause do noticeable clean up on those thinks.

my shoulder hurts just thinking about it....lol

Sent from my VS980 4G using Lake Ontario United mobile app

[choo-choo]

Yes 2015 Mike. Hopefully they will have good weather in 2016 to allow use of the barge for the brown stocking.

Due to the population explosion of these nasty cormorants, stocking browns by barge should be standard procedure... period. A back up barge should be ready if the primary barge is unavailable, due to a weather delay etc.. Edited October 24, 2015 by choo-choo

[troubles]

Problem is the barge they use is based in Cape Vincent and has to travel to stocking sites! You would think they would be able to adjust schedule but they said not the case at the meeting!

[Xxx]

Well this is the most encouraging info so far, as for the birds one could have a field day with a 12 bore!! Crows are pretty tough come winter time, I would think with those being bigger than a crow it would be interesting to say the least.

[MikeyP]

Problem is the barge they use is based in Cape Vincent and has to travel to stocking sites! You would think they would be able to adjust schedule but they said not the case at the meeting!

Why is that Greg? Why can't they make adjustments for the betterment of the lake and those who use it plus what it would mean to the economy of the area and the state overall. Did they say why or just say that's not the case? Some of the answers from them make no sense!

[nhbait]

what would it take  for the state  of NY to get  permission  form the  feds  to cull   some of these nasty birds ?     I see it has  been done  on some of the great lakes  maybe   some effort  is all.

[GAMBLER]

what would it take for the state of NY to get permission form the feds to cull some of these nasty birds ? I see it has been done on some of the great lakes maybe some effort is all.

don't they shoot them in Oneida?

[rw6788]

Trout/salmon returns concern biologists
-------------------------------------------------
Some weird stuff is going on with trout and salmon this fall, and anglers on the St. Joseph River in Michigan and Indiana are likely to suffer from it. Source: South Bend Tribune (10/25)

 

http://www.southbendtribune.com/sports/outdoors/outdoors-trout-salmon-returns-concern-biologists/article_4c761b06-d3c7-5c86-a179-92c85bdb094f.html

[troubles]

Why is that Greg? Why can't they make adjustments for the betterment of the lake and those who use it plus what it would mean to the economy of the area and the state overall. Did they say why or just say that's not the case? Some of the answers from them make no sense!

They said their stocking schedule is so set that they can't make changes! I agree it's a waste of resources to let the birds eat the browns.

[Yankee Troller]

Why is that Greg? Why can't they make adjustments for the betterment of the lake and those who use it plus what it would mean to the economy of the area and the state overall. Did they say why or just say that's not the case? Some of the answers from them make no sense!

 

They are UNION! 

[GAMBLER]

Did you just figure out what the caps lock button does on a keyboard Rick?  You have used it a lot today.

[troubles]

BROWN TROUT

Brown trout are an important part of the lake fishery and also contribute to the fall tributary fishery. Browns are a featured species early in the spring as they congregate in the relatively warm, near-shore waters off of river mouths providing opportunity for shore and boat fishing. As the lake warms, browns move away from shore and continue to provide fishing for anglers willing to fish near the bottom where it intersects the thermocline. This fishery is often passed over by anglers seeking salmon further off-shore.

As is the case with lake trout, salmon and steelhead, brown trout are capable of getting very large in Lake Ontario. The current state record (33 lbs. 2 oz.) was caught in Mexico Bay in 1997. Fish in the weighing high-teens and 20+ lbs. category are not uncommon.

The brown trout stocked in Lake Ontario are domestic strain fish originating from our Rome Hatchery. The eggs are taken from captive broodstock and the fish are raised at various hatcheries throughout the state including the Salmon River Hatchery. The fish are stocked as yearlings in Lake Ontario around the end of May.

Concerns over predation by double-crested cormorants on recently stocked brown trout led to stocking the fish off-shore with a landing-craft vessel (barge) in the eastern half of the lake starting in 1996. Paired stockings have been done annually at Oswego and Selkirk with half of the fish stocked from shore and the other half from the barge. The two groups of fish have different fin clips which allows us to evaluate the success of the barge stocking through returns of marked fish from the Lake Ontario Fishing Boat Census and other sources. Preliminary observations suggest at least a 4 to 1 advantage for barge stocked fish. We think that the main advantage for the barge stocking may be avoiding predation by other fish. By waiting until late May to stock the fish, cormorants are not very abundant at these sites. Most of the cormorants are involved in nesting activity the eastern basin.

From fish Salmon River.com site.Written by Dan Bishop.

This says we may have lost a lot this year!

http://www.fishsalmonriver.com/Lake-Ontario-Trout-And-Salmon

Edited October 27, 2015 by troubles

[MikeyP]

They are UNION! 

Ahhhhhhhhh.....That explains it

[Capt Vince Pierleoni]

I have had anglers call me this fall saying they have witnessed cormorants pillaging Chinook releases the last couple of Springs. The southshore bays and tribs have had their LM Bass take a beating as well. Letting YEARLING trout become bird food knowingly is beyond a crime, as they are the most expensive to raise and take up the most hatchery space. 

[Tall Tails]

don't they shoot them in Oneida?

They chase them off the lake using DEC boats...my thought has been they relocate to the south shore of Lake O.  I have asked this question several times and not been given an answer.

[UNREEL]

They chase them off the lake using DEC boats...my thought has been they relocate to the south shore of Lake O.  I have asked this question several times and not been given an answer.

The DEC had a harassment program going for a couple of years on Oneida till the $$ ran out around 2013. I had a conversation with the DEC waterfowl guru last week asking if we can legally harass them off an island in Irondequoit Bay. Up till 2 weeks ago there were easily 1000 birds roosting on the island, slowly killing it with their crap, and making a mess of our boats at the dock. The quick answer was no we can't harass unless they're nesting. They are a native bird. Federally protected blah, blah. An island landowner on the Webster side did get a permit to shoot 25 a day and took out a good number. It helped his problem, but relocated the rest to our island off the Bay Fish & Game Club, which is county property. The DEC guy said he would e-mail me some info on what we can legally do. Still waiting for that.

Kevin