DEC response to Salmon Numbers

[lost a lure]

They are UNION! 

 

So are the Yankees!!!!!

[EYE TRACKER]

So are the Yankees!!!!!

[Yankee Troller]

So are the Yankees!!!!!

 

Might shock you to know I don't follow professional sports at all. I can't even name one person on the Yankees. I'm just carrying on my fathers boat name because that's the name I grew up doing this under.

[Iceman]

Ah, always wondered where the name came from, Thanks Rick!

John

[Yankee Troller]

He was and is a huge Yankee's fan. Even after his massive brain injury he can't tell ya what he did yesterday, but he damn sure knows the Yankee score from last night.

[Tall Tails]

The DEC had a harassment program going for a couple of years on Oneida till the $$ ran out around 2013.

They actually have gotten money back for the program and have been doing it the last 2 years as well.  It was done by private guys getting there boat gas paid for but that ended. Now it is just the DEC doing the cormorant hazing.

[Rich s]

Now we are getting WAY out there and I do take offense to that statement.

United steelworkers local 4-00429 president

Proud to represent workers rights

Rich

Edited October 28, 2015 by Rich s

[Yankee Troller]

Now we are getting WAY out there and I do take offense to that statement.

United steelworkers local 4-00429 president

Proud to represent workers rights

Rich

 

Sorry, but it's true. I have friends in various unions. They all admit the stuff they get away with is unreal, but they are no dummies and keep their mouth shut. 

 

As for the DEC they're union, and it doesn't work for what they need to accomplish. Many examples of how their union rules haven't allowed them to "do the right thing" in the past. The latest being the BT getting dumped rather than waiting. 

[Rich s]

Dude you are so off base I don't even want to get into it . Maybe troll that boat over to China

[Paul Czarnecki]

Dude you are so off base I don't even want to get into it . Maybe troll that boat over to China

No sense arguing with a Union guy Rich. He'll just go on strike and boycott the Lake. Smh

[Rich s]

Some guys just got it all figured out. Heard about everything here now , yup it's the unions fault ,

My last word on this subject until factual information comes out .

Rich

[Paul Czarnecki]

Some guys just got it all figured out. Heard about everything here now , yup it's the unions fault ,

My last word on this subject until factual information comes out .

Rich

No one said they had it all figured out. Some of us just despise unions and what they've done to this country. Factual information!

[cannon]

As far as the brown trout stocking.....I KNOW......that charter captains in Mexico Bay/Little Salmon river would volunteer their boats to help in the disperment

[GAMBLER]

Union or not, they could still stock at night. You can change their schedule with advanced notice. You may have to pay them shift differential but who cares. Could we get the DEC to dump they into pens during the day and then we dump them out of the pens at sundown? I would volunteer for that.

[cannon]

Sorry...mistake... While there are STILL charter boats available ...they would be happy to help.. I'm sure there are liability issues and fish disperse challenges...I'm sure can get worked out..the world we live in today makes everything difficult. This fishery is a valuable resource for all on this site...just saying there is help available .

[troubles]

Sorry...mistake... While there are STILL charter boats available ...they would be happy to help.. I'm sure there are liability issues and fish disperse challenges...I'm sure can get worked out..the world we live in today makes everything difficult. This fishery is a valuable resource for all on this site...just saying there is help available .

Actually that was brought up at the meeting and DEC response was way too many fish to stock off boats. Not sure what they could do with pens if empty of salmon already?

[Rich s]

Ok so now I did some investigating back on the things that have been posted here by those doing some busting/finger pointing starting on page 12.. These are your words , not mine..

1. Apparently they stocked brown trout without the barge do to weather conditions at scriba Launch and they were decimated by the birds.

Anyone who thinks risking the lives of others is worth the price of a FISH is outta their mind ..

2.They said their stocking schedule is so set that they can't make changes! I agree it's a waste of resources to let the birds eat the browns.

I'm sure all and everyone has at sometime had a schedule that they had to meet and unable to change do to logistics. A decision was made to stock the fish, possibly not a great decision but possibly the only one that could be made..

3. As for the DEC they're union, and it doesn't work for what they need to accomplish. Many examples of how their union rules haven't allowed them to "do the right thing" in the past. The latest being the BT getting dumped rather than waiting.

The most absurd thing I have ever read here on this forum, obviously you have no desire to learn about facts, concerns over peoples safety or understand than most upper management, the ones who make such decisions are typically non-union.. I cant believe this was even brought up..

Management/Confidential

Employees designated management or confidential by the Public Employment Relations Board are not members of a negotiating unit. The Taylor Law does not permit them to organize or to bargain collectively on terms and conditions of employment because of the nature of their work. M/C employees formulate policy, assist directly in preparing for or conducting negotiations, administer labor agreements, or assist in a confidential capacity those employees who have employee relations responsibilities. There are almost 12,000 M/Cs, covering a broad range of occupations including managers, middle managers, and specialists in fields as diverse as education, law, computer science, medicine, administrative support, and law enforcement.

4.This is perhaps the best voice of reason I have read, it means people understand and are focused on addressing issues and concerns, THANK you Capt. Vince

I'm encouraged with what I have heard from and about the new hatchery manager. I'm also happy to hear that the DEC acknowledged the poor returns the last 2 years and have already started to make changes.

The cormorants will be a problem from now on, and it will take alot of effort from all of us so they don't get the stocked fish. Their predation is much worse than what we thought, and that was already a huge concern. More volunteers will be needed at the stocking sites than in the past, and the DEC will probably have to rethink some of their normal practices.

Some contingency plans had to be put into place in the western tribs as when low water was found stocked Steelhead would hold in what deep pools they could find and wait for rain. Unfortunately the Cormorants would get them before the flow would come.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Rich s

[Sk8man]

This topic obviously carries a lot of emotion beneath it and the unfortunate part of it is we have little functional control over much of it so the threatening nature of the fishery going sour can easily obscure the fact that we need to remain united and respectful of each other in our quest for information and solutions to this highly complex situation. It isn't fruitful or productive or fair for that matter to cast blame on anyone at this point as there are too many unknowns for one thing. It also is not right or even logical to blame the DEC guys out in the field either as they are mere pawns in the "chess" game that the State managers play on their big monopoly board and even they are at the mercy of his royal hindness (spelling intentional) King Andrew. it might be wise to stay within the realm of information sharing and bouncing around ideas instead of casting blame on anyone or any entity. We all have a lot yet to learn about this.

[Rich s]

This topic obviously carries a lot of emotion beneath it and the unfortunate part of it is we have little functional control over much of it so the threatening nature of the fishery going sour can easily obscure the fact that we need to remain united and respectful of each other in our quest for information and solutions to this highly complex situation. It isn't fruitful or productive or fair for that matter to cast blame on anyone at this point as there are too many unknowns for one thing. It also is not right or even logical to blame the DEC guys out in the field either as they are mere pawns in the "chess" game that the State managers play on their big monopoly board and even they are at the mercy of his royal hindness (spelling intentional) King Andrew. it might be wise to stay within the realm of information sharing and bouncing around ideas instead of casting blame on anyone or any entity. We all have a lot yet to learn about this.

Could not agree more !!!!

Thank you Sk8man

[mccoy13]

Sad to see this thread go this way. An intelligent conversation turned into mud slinging. You despise unions. That's great. You heard stories of abuse from your friends. That's it then, huh? Done deal.

As someone who has worked on both sides, I can promise you that there will always be people looking to take advantage of any situation. Are you going to ignore the great things unions did in this country? Safety, sanitary conditions, reasonable work weeks, weekends?

It is always easy to point fingers and second guess others decisions. When dealing with the environment, nothing is black and white. Has the DEC made decisions they would like to have back? I'm sure. Who hasn't. Are you telling me if you were in charge the lake would be overflowing with salmon every year, and under budget on top of it?

Let's try to find intelligent solutions to problems, rather than make blanket statements that are useless.

I work hard, I'm proud of what I do, and pround of the union I belong to. I certainly don't appreciate comments about how unions are destroying the country I love.

Michael McCoy

Local 13 Plumbers and Pipefitter

Edited October 29, 2015 by mccoy13

[Yankee Troller]

Actually that was brought up at the meeting and DEC response was way too many fish to stock off boats. Not sure what they could do with pens if empty of salmon already?

 

They always have an excuse up on Lake Ontario, but they had no problem using charter boats to stock Lake Trout in Seneca a few weeks back.

[troubles]

That was brought up too Rick before they gave the response you quoted!

[Tall Tails]

I brought it up at the meeting.   There are some facts missing from the discussion.  Nobody including the DEC thinks the dumping of the browns at scriba was a good idea.  It "was" an approved stocking location because of the access to the lake quickly.  Unfortunately the fish didn't disperse.  The weather was to rough for the barge to make its appointment to take the fish out into the lake.  From what I heard from others that time frame nobody was going out onto the lake period.  Not charter boats or rec anglers or commercial barge operators....

 

Once those fish are loaded in the stocking truck they are not going to be taken back to the hatchery period.  There is a disease transmission issue as those trucks are used to haul fish from all the hatchery's all over the state.  Anybody with any kind of fish culture or biology background can see this.  It has zero to do with unions, zero...Not sure where that came from other then reaching for excuses. 

 

WHAT DID COME FROM THE QUESTION BEING ASKED WAS SCRIBA WONT BE USED TO STOCK AGAIN!  Everybody makes mistakes and it happens.  There was a lesson learned. 

 

I was happy to hear the DEC admit it was a mistake at least they acknowledged that.  Now lets move on and keep asking questions

[troubles]

Tired of all this! Please let this post Die?

All can point fingers and banter back and forth forever! Point is this meeting was a good step forward. Hopefully there are improvements considered in the future.

We all should attend the state of the lake meetings that will be held early in 2016 at 3 locations along the south shore. Maybe more information (not speculation ) can be presented then!

Edited October 29, 2015 by troubles

[GAMBLER]

I think we should ask the DEC if this were to happen again if volunteers could hold them in pens. We could have pens made like the pen rearing projects, hold them until the weather clears and then take the to the lake and drop them in the evening. We could raise money to build extra pens and have them ready. It would take volunteers which is a problem because a lot of people can't take the time to help. I think it would not be too much to ask of the DEC or the fishermen.