DEC response to Salmon Numbers

[GAMBLER]

Erie the emeralds are suffering from the reports also.

[RD9]

Gambler I was just going to say the same thing there is so few shiners in Dunkirk harbor the last few years it's amazing. In the spring and about now years ago you could walk on them. There is basically zero as of last week.

[Fish one]

My question to you is why would you eat a dead fish? The reason they don't fillet the meat is cause their no protein or fat left. So obviously the fish is gonna taste terrible.

[rolmops]

My question to you is why would you eat a dead fish? The reason they don't fillet the meat is cause their no protein or fat left. So obviously the fish is gonna taste terrible.

Why eat a dead fish. Did you ever try to eat a live one? I did once, during my commando survival training. I really do not want to do that again.

[PD Buoy]

Funny story I was fishing in Sebago Lake in Maine a few years ago, my Baha is set-up like many Charter boats on Lake Ontario. Just fishing for Atlantic salmon on the lake when a smaller boat to my port YELLS over and says the problem with this lake is TO MANY CHARTER BOATS!!! I am a weekend warrior that does not have enough time to fish (self employed). I am certain that Charter Captains are not the reason that fishing gets challenging, many other facters are certainly involved in a complex ever evolving ecosystem. I'm with you Missdemeanor!!!

[motoman]

I wonder if there could be a salmon die off due to thiamin issues like the steelhead?  If they died in the lake, would they even know it was happening? 

You would think the biologist  would have picked up on this while running the trawler. 

[King Davy]

Up on the salmon for A special event. So this week about 2.5 m King eggs harvested. Monday they do cohos. 3500 cohos in the pens for spawning. And then back to kings. Lots of fish up river, hatchery and beaver dam you can walk across them. Some steelhead starting to show. And enough people to start a small country. So looking like brood stock goals for harvest are on plan.

Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United

[Gill-T]

Cool.

[spoonfed-1]

Thank God for that push of fish last week.

Not much behind them.

 

Very few Steelhead in the river now after talking to a reliable source today, although I've seen some inflated numbers on the internet,

 

Just got chased off my nice hot fire by snow/ice in Mexico.

 

Happy fishing!

Edited October 18, 2015 by spoonfed-1

[King Davy]

Yeah fished yesterday afternoon and again today. Saw a few steelhead scattered about. I haven't hooked one but the couple I saw hooked up put on a real show jumping all over the place. Hopefully they'll be healthy this year. Time will tell.

Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United

[spoonfed-1]

Yeah fished yesterday afternoon and again today. Saw a few steelhead scattered about. I haven't hooked one but the couple I saw hooked up put on a real show jumping all over the place. Hopefully they'll be healthy this year. Time will tell.

Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United

 

We hit very few in the lake this past season but thats not unusual as the Lake never set up good for them in my area and north.

The few we hit were very healthy fish. Thick and strong.

 

Also a handful of small ones fishing for Browns last spring in the Bay.

 

 

Hope you get into a few soon.

[choo-choo]

Spoke with a DSR employee an hour or so ago. He told me there were DEC and other Biologists down on the lower river (DSR)today collecting eggs from (wild ?) kings that were spawning naturally in the lower river.The biologists mentioned they were looking for vitamin B / thiamine difficiancies and other things in these fresh eggs and the adult spawning kings too.

He also witnessed several large ,dying whirling steelhead for the first time this season.

[Gill-T]

In reading the DSR reports for October one might be inclined to say that the run of kings on the Salmon River have been very poor. King Davy, you seem to keep putting a cheery spin on runs around the lake despite evidence to the contrary. I asked you in a PM off the record what is the official stance of the DSR group on King Salmon. Since you refused to answer the question perhaps someone else affiliated with the DSR on this site can answer the question. Since the DSR has political clout and is still acquiring more land on the Salmon River, I think Lake Ontario fishermen have the right to know if the DSR is pro vs against vs neutral on the stocking of King Salmon. What is their stance?

Edited October 19, 2015 by Gill-T

[Rich s]

Gill,

while I can sense your frustration (mine too), quite honestly I don't think you are being fair in asking a non-employee a stance in regards to their (DSR, NYS) views.. Maybe you should contact the source..

As well, what are you really asking ? For a State official to publicly say that the salmon returns are at a all time low , mid , or great level this year and or last ? That is what I would like to hear, from a state official based on data not internet reports..

If so , it's very low, what next ? More stockings or science to figure out why , I'd chose the latter myself..

If I recall the 2012 run of salmon (I wasn't fishing the lake at that time) was OFF the charts, 2013 was pretty darn good.. So what happened in these past 2 seasons that threw this a skew or do you feel 2013 and prior were terrible ?

We just cant be jumping to success rates and dumping tons more predators into the foray without figuring out what's changed first , yea I know and read about 300,000 more lake trout but remember, their numbers were far below sustainable levels and given the extra pressure these past to seasons I'm sure took a huge hit..

Give the folks some time to examine the research, let the trawls bring in more information on the status of the ecosystem and then, yes If after attending the SOL meetings and published information is not suffice then, keep writing letters to the department officials but to call out someone who is just trying to relay , non public statements with information based on conversations with state officials is very un fair..

Rich

[Gill-T]

True Rich. Bills lost again and I am just in a surly mood.

[HBC]

Maybe we got your fish.  As stated before, runs on the NE shores were quite good this year.  Lots of kings made it up to spawn naturally without human interaction since the season closed shortly after the major runs. 

 

I too want science to provide a response first before we stock more.  There is a meeting scheduled on Oct 25th with the MNR department head and workers to ask questions on what happened this year on the NW end of the lake. 

[Gill-T]

Hairy, your strong runs are a testament to higher thinking. Closing certain streams after Sept. 30th to protect spawning salmon shows good management. I do believe those fish returning to your rivers are your fish. There is no logical reason for salmon born out of the Salmon river flow to bypass their natal waters to spawn in Canada. Remember probably 80% of the American salmon out in the lake had their beginnings in Salmon River water and thus imprinted. Penning fish certainly helps but the greatest imprinting happens at inception at the hatchery. We will get it all worked out. I look forward to a much better 2016 season. The rut is around the corner....I'm going hunting.

[King Davy]

Gill I was away up on the river fishing with 14 very brave women recovering from Breast Cancer who were looking to learn to fly fish as part of the CFR project my wife Lindsay was leading. That the DSR kindly supplied the space, and infrastructure and logistics to accommodate these wonderful ladies. So I didn't get your message.

 

Yesterday after the event was over I had a chance to go up river and see what was happening. I'd say from Pineville up there were plenty of Salmon present, but from Ellis Cove up there were lots of fish being "hooked". I walked the Hatchery property. Every holding pen is jammed with Coho's.  I guess they counted Coho heads and have a number of 3500 to start spawning today if they are loose.

 

The brook leading into the hatchery has salmon in every inch of it, the raceways that are four feet deep, have salmon in every inch of it, and way more impressive, is I had the opportunity to visit the back of the hatchery property, which is about a quarter mile long and it is virtually completely black with Salmon which are spawning naturally. I won't guess how many fish are on  the property because no matter what number I come up with it will be challenged. All I can say is that there is as many fish there as I've ever seen. Does that mean there is as many as three years ago in the entire river, I would have no way of knowing....would you? Until DEC does their carcass and red count will they be able to put a number on if the run to this river is up, down, or relatively the same.

 

I'll be on the Genny this week. A guide I know who works there is having a very good year. Two weeks ago I saw fish boiling everywhere. To my knowledge DEC doesn't do body counts there.  I stopped at Oswego on the way home, and saw fish from the Dam down. And people fishing for them. Looking at pics on Kevin Davis's site looks like they are doing well. One would have to ask him what he thinks. Were they late??? for sure. Is there good fishable numbers...it appears so. Is it the same as three years ago...who knows.

 

I wouldn't think any numbers would be as good as three years ago with two way off climates the last 24 months. But is the fishery viable to continue the fall sport fishing...it appears so.

 

The big board at the hatchery had the egg take count at a full 2.5 million and change. What was a very interesting number is the eggs per hen....at just under 5,000, which according to the biologist I talked to that is taking eggs is a very nice high average. Not sure it is an all time high, but they considered it a marker to say these lady salmon were in good shape.  After the Coho egg take, they'll switch back to kings. I believe their target is again a little over 4 million, and Gill one thing I will state my bank account on...is they will have no trouble in making that number. The fresh in fish in the raceways were simply impressive. Big big hens saw many easily in the high 20's and low 30's only five feet from me. All the fish I was able to get a close look at were beautiful full bodies specimens.

 

The only positive news I can 100% relate is the fact that DEC will again capture the brood stock to continue the stocking program. On the DSR lots of fish spawning there. To Rich's point doesn't matter what I think, wait to hear what the DEC's final results of studies are. But if I was intent on catching King Salmon this fall, I don't see that I couldn't go to any of the major tibs I fish, and not find plenty to fish for.  

 

Finally ...and I know you know this....but at 350 to 450 CFS the Salmon giggers don't get shots at them as easily which is a beautiful thing. And these fish are moving under the cover of darkness as well. Look back at the "Banner year reports" from two years ago, when the avg CFS in the fall was 100 to 185, and the fish can't hide. Was interesting to stand next to the Salmon Crews staring at thousands of salmon in the Hatchery grounds and not believing their eyes that THAT many fish ran by them. 

 

That's all I got. And stop beating the dead DSR horse....it's boring. As long as they continue to host Breast Cancer and Wounded Warrior Events that we run....I'm good with them.

[Gill-T]

Thanks for the report.  Glad to hear good news for once.

[GAMBLER]

All the reports I have read state the run is way less than normal on the salmon. When they all run at once, it will give you a nice amount of fish in the river at once. As you know Dave, the runs normally start in August. The DSR reports are dismal except for Columbus Day weekend. Say what you want, fish are missing. The late August run was not there and September was a trickle. Not normal numbers in the river as far as the total run. Look at the big picture not one weekend.

[King Davy]

Gambler.....The fish ran late last year as well. I fished to salmon at Christmas. I'm not debating the number of fish...I'm stating that there is plenty of presence of fish where I'm fishing. The fish didn't run in August, I can name you many more years they didn't run in August then when they did. The last few years we saw "significant" runs in August, The fish I saw yesterday ...if they ran in August would be dead by now, and maybe never have contributed to the new generation of Salmon.

 

I'm telling you there is a big impressive class of fish in the upper river. I have no agenda to make this stuff up....however it's simply my observation, but man these were crazy beautiful animals. Folks....even if the DEC decides to put more Salmon in for what ever reasons they may find it difficult to do so with the carrying capacity of room left. But one hurdle that will get over is the simple fact that they will get all their eggs...

 

And these fish look very healthy. The hens are just pure egg wagons. Is there EVER a day when the Sky is NOT falling around here?

 

Yes I'm just one guy that has logged about 14 days on the water since Mid Sept. Before that I was catching a$$ kicking bass and tuna on the sound. I don't chase these fish until now, because I hope to have some diversity with some Steelhead and Brown trout around...and BTW they are as well. What can I tell you...the 14 days that I fished for trout and Salmon ...I was always fishing to fish. I can't say anything else. I've had years with the "Banner" runs where I didn't happen to be where the fish were. This year where ever I've gone I have plenty of targets to swing at. 

 

Two years ago when the fish ran in August and I went there first of Oct...I had no salmon to fish to...they were all up river. Guess what I had banner years fishing for Salmon in the salmon in the mid 90's when they only put in 1M, and nobody caught them on the lake. I don't know....just fish.

[salmonboy41]

King Davy,

Thanks for the update on the Hatchery its good to hear that they will be able to reach all of the egg collection goals.  But your reports on how good the fishing is and the number of fish seem to be contradictory of what the DSR itself as here are the reports from the last couple of days and non of them sound all that great and the reports from previous days don't sound any better then these.

 

Another Slow Day
10/18/2015

Fishing on the DSR today was very slow, most anglers reported hooking in to only one or two fish on most of the run. However there were a few spots that seemed to do a bit better on the upper half of the run, but just a few decent pockets of fish.

  Slower Than Yesterday
10/17/2015

The fishing on the DSR today was relatively slow throughout the run. Most of the fish caught were Steelhead with a few Kings here and there. The middle of the run to the lower clay hole seemed to fish the best, however still no big pushes of fish moving through the river, and the pods we were seeing yesterday seemed to be fewer and farther between.   A Steady Day
10/16/2015

Throughout the day we had small pods of Steelhead and Kings moving through the DSR at a fairly regular pace, not a run but fishing was steady enough that most fishermen had no complaints. The Steelhead were mostly in the lower half of the river, below the meadow, while most of the kings that were caught were more near the upper half of the river.

[troubles]

Tired of all this! Please let this post Die?

[TileMan Dan]

Well said Troubles LOL

[Patriot]

Thanks Davy. As long as the hatchery gets the eggs they need plus the natural reproduction going on, I'm satisfied. And for anyone else, you want more fish? become a better fisherman.