2015 Genesee river fall trout and salmon

[mikebarb86]

This season had been a strange one. It has been difficult to catch any trout and salmon during this falls run up the genny. I see most numbers caught snagging up under the falls but I'm not seeing any in numbers between the falls and Seth green island. I believe the fishing pressure has done damage to the numbers. People are snagging and selling salmon by the hundreds every year and most people that are doing this have no job. All day these people get 10$ a fish. It's sad to see this situation occur but to save the salmon something needs to be done. As the days get shorter and colder I hope at least the trout will be coming up the river.

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[kstitan8]

I have started seeing numerous browns of all sizes all over east side tribs, they should without a doubt be in the river.

[kstitan8]

but yea, sad state of affairs down there at the falls

[GAMBLER]

This season had been a strange one. It has been difficult to catch any trout and salmon during this falls run up the genny. I see most numbers caught snagging up under the falls but I'm not seeing any in numbers between the falls and Seth green island. I believe the fishing pressure has done damage to the numbers. People are snagging and selling salmon by the hundreds every year and most people that are doing this have no job. All day these people get 10$ a fish. It's sad to see this situation occur but to save the salmon something needs to be done. As the days get shorter and colder I hope at least the trout will be coming up the river.

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The DEC is saying salmon numbers are down.  That is the main reason for low numbers. 

[shameless]

If these fish are coming to spawn and die, how does removing them effect the numbers that are available next year?

[mikebarb86]

Catching salmon that have eggs and males that fertilize the eggs means less salmon fry being hatched. Most of these salmon are trying to breed taking them before they do that obviously affects numbers.

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[ontherise]

I thought they didn't survive in the genny? That was my impression I could be wrong.

[GAMBLER]

I thought they didn't survive in the genny? That was my impression I could be wrong.

They do not reproduce in the Genny because the eggs get silted over.

[mikebarb86]

That's not true at all there is silt in all rivers and steams. Salmon return to the spot they were born so your statement makes no sense.

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[ontherise]

I think his point was that they do not reproduce in the gene see river and fact gambler is correct.

[mikebarb86]

Your wrong because if that was true then why are salmon returning every year. Salmon return to the place they were hatched. Do some research before you make ridiculous statements.

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[ontherise]

Yeeeahh!!! That's the spirit!!! Ok , well do you think that fish with a pea sized brain is smart enough to know where on this enormous earth they were born?? I thin not!!!

[ontherise]

In case this guy is serious someone might want school him, if he's not serious I'll stay right here with a rebuttle.!!

[mikebarb86]

Salmon spend their early life in rivers, and then swim out to sea where they live their adult lives and gain most of their body mass. When they have matured, they return to the rivers to spawn. Usually they return with uncanny precision to the natal river where they were born, and even to the very spawning ground of their birth. It is thought that, when they are in the ocean, they use magnetoception to locate the general position of their natal river, and once close to the river, that they use their sense of smell to home in on the river entrance and even their natal spawning ground.

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Edited November 7, 2015 by mikebarb86

[mikebarb86]

That's from Wikipedia . Hard to take you seriously with a Cheech and Chong picture.

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Edited November 7, 2015 by L&M

[mikebarb86]

Look up magnetoception

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[mikebarb86]

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Edited November 7, 2015 by L&M

[pvelyk]

It's pretty simple it is direct stockers and pen fish are returning to the river.  The Genesee River's bottom makeup is not a hospitable place for salmon eggs to get fertilized, eye up and survive as fry to make it to the lake.  The eggs need cool water, small sized gravel for beds and habitat for the newly hatch fry hide in once hatched and it needs to highly oxygenated.  The amount of silt that this very mature river has in it covers they eggs and chokes the small amount of gravel beds and starves both any eggs and lucky enough fry to hatch of oxygen.  The Genny from the lower falls to the lake is pretty much devoid of any stretches of the small size gravel that is needed for either the spawning bed or a place for the new hatched salmon to hide.  Any any beds that do exist are simply choked and covered by the large amounts of silt carried down from upstream where the large amount of farms and other high erosion land it flows through.    This river simply is not a suitable river for Salmon reproduction, If any natural spawning at all actually occurs and the fry are somehow able to actually grow to the point to go in the lake the number are truly so small that they are considered zero.  Seeing salmon upriver is NOT a sign of natural reproduction.  Few rivers and streams on the south shore of Lake Ontario are even remotely capable of the needs of the eggs and resulting fry to survive and make it to the lake.

[ontherise]

Wait a minute.... That makes too much sense, that can't be right .

[mikebarb86]

The usgs states the water in the Genesee has suitable oxygen levels for salmon reproduction. There is no data supporting your claim. Salmon have been naturally reproducing in the Genesee for hundreds of years.

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[henrybud]

I stay away from these arguments usually. It would be amazing if our kings would naturally reproduce. It really would. I do urge you to look into when salmon were introduced to Michigan and then lake o within the past decades, 60's and 70's. Native fish, lakers, some atlantic salmon were here 100s of years ago, but certainly not chinook

[pvelyk]

The usgs states the water in the Genesee has suitable oxygen levels for salmon reproduction. There is no data supporting your claim. Salmon have been naturally reproducing in the Genesee for hundreds of years.

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First Pacific Salmon were not here for hundreds of years, so your reference to them is moot.  Second Atlantic salmon all but became extinct in Lake Ontario do to industrialization and the effect it had on the water quality both physical in increased silt due to modern farming practices and Chemicals. Third oxygen in the water is not the same at the oxygen found around the eggs and any lucky enough fry that hatched in the minuscule gravel beds that would support them covered in silt.  Honestly it sounds as if you have never laid eyes on the Genesee River in Northern NY.  Southern NY and Pennsylvania has areas that would fit the bills but several Water Falls and Dams including a large one called the Mt. Morris Dam prevent any salmon or trout from Lake Ontario getting anywhere near these areas.  I grew up on the Genny upstream by RIT, trust me when I say the silt and runoff in this river is constant and heavy.  Salmon eggs are just not suited to survive the water quality provided by this watershed and anyone who has fished or seen it up close would have little reason to believe otherwise. 

[HBC]

I love it when people reference wiki. 

 

I know of a ditch that doesn't get any runs typically because the levels are SSSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO low.  It is located within a few miles of a major trib that gets a large run.  When the planets align and we get enough rain, some fish run that ditch and they may attempt to spawn but most die before they are ready to do their thing because of water temps and lack of oxygenated water. 

 

Please tell me how those fish returned back to that ditch if there were no fish present for upwards of 5 years?  Maybe I will reference wiki.

[kstitan8]

The precision of the fish returning may be variable, for whatever reason. But it's indisputable that the fish have a natural instinct to return.

[GAMBLER]

The usgs states the water in the Genesee has suitable oxygen levels for salmon reproduction. There is no data supporting your claim. Salmon have been naturally reproducing in the Genesee for hundreds of years.

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Call a DEC biologist and ask them. They will tell you there is No successful natural reproduction of salmon in the Genesee River (I have talked to one on the subject). Also ask them how long they have been stocking salmon in the Genesee River.