Invasive specie regulation - Comments?

[final flight]

The only invasive that I'm worried about is the tigers they are stocking :) way way too many !!!!

[rolmops]

The only invasive that I'm worried about is the tigers they are stocking way way too many !!!!

And what about the Cowalskies that can't swim? (hybrid between coho,walleye and muskie)

[FishingTheFL]

Zebra mussels do a lot more damage then mosquitoes to the environment. Mosquitoes have potential to be dangerous because of infection but Zebra mussels choke everything

[Tim Bromund]

The only invasive that I'm worried about is the tigers they are stocking :) way way too many !!!!

Yeah, but as a sterile hybrid, their populations are more easily controlled.

[Sk8man]

I think that the only way we have a chance of dealing with the current invasives is though scientific research to find their weaknesses and then initiate things to exploit those weaknesses but unfortunately these things are very costly usually and despite putting our natural resources in jeopardy (billions of dollars attached to them) our government instead seeks to monitor and control the end users of these resources much as in the so called SAFE ACT which exerts increased controls on folks that are not the problem but that happen to be "handy" to make a public claim that they are doing "something" about something they have absolutely no control of which is the illegal trafficing and criminal use of firearms.

[FishingTheFL]

Creating a weakness instead of trying to find one is what I'm trying to get at. Before Bush we weren't able to do it. Probably best thing Obama did was open stem cell research, on the other hand it opened Pandora's box on our food supply (corn, wheat, soy,all the basics).

Staying on topic, fish related...

Say we release a hybrid zebra mussel that has a critical change to its DNA that creates a weakness in the genome, then that hybrid breeds with the current population. Eventually with in a couple generations of breeding the new DNA should take affect. Could be a softer shell, remove strand that causes it to produce digestive enzyme, cause sterile reproduction. They already do it in gmo foods, splicing DNA from other animals to cause plants to grow with natural resistance to bugs, disease...

Already billions of gone down the drain. Above is a decent plan that would work. Getting the ball rolling and keeping the hippies at bay are another story.

[Rich s]

Trying to control the invasives by unleashing scientific methods across an entire watershed is only creating another monster in the waiting. Aka placing matts across weed beds or copper sulfate!!!

NO GMO !!!!

Stop the big problem to begin with, there must be something to put into ballast that will be able to eradicate any invasives in holds of cargo tankers ..

But alas, we are just the pawns .

Ugh

Rich

[FishingTheFL]

Your ok with putting chemicals in the water but not giving a species a genetic achilles heel?

Above is a non chemical, non pollutant way of dealing of targeted invasive species. Test on small a smaller body of water after testing in a controlled environment.

The negative I can think of is that the new genetics spread to areas where they are native. Even if that became a problem it wouldn't be hard to store DNA like they are doing for the Ash trees since they estimate that the Ash borer could cause the extinction of the tree.

Someone already mentioned they are releasing sterile Tigers... GMO most likely

[Rich s]

Don't think I ever mentioned putting chemicals into watershed. I said put something into the ships, not chemicals.

I worked on commercial cargo haulers and have discharged ballast.. Wither you are adding or discharging, it all goes through a central pump system. There should be a filter system in the ballast line to prevent invasive from entering the holds.. Every so often these holds should be (ok) sterilized with an agent , chemical of course , but discharged into a containment tank and disposed of on land..

Maybe I'm wrong in thinking a filter system instead of unleashing GMO fueled monster ??

Rich

Edited December 25, 2015 by Rich s

[Rich s]

Just to add ,

I also work for a massive industry that intakes water from the Hudson River , its industrial water used to cool pumps, compressors and mills . It has a grinder at the intake to deal with zebra mussels and a screen to not allow fish to pass through. After that it goes through a multi million dollar filter treatment system then to the pumps and back to the filter system where it is treated with sulfuric acid and yes released back to the River.

For me to say I approve of the treatment , no but the State of NY does and it's happening

[FishingTheFL]

Times have changed. We need to change with them. Even if there is a financial loss to certain companies that deal with them. The sulfuric acid is probably some by product of another operation like fracking. I read an article yesterday that the pretreatment brine they put on the road is actually left over by product, yes fracking is banned in Ny but 5 counties are allowing the use of it, and their is chemicals in it that the company does not have to share with state, but hey it's approved.... I got a solution for that as well but trying to stay on topic.

Point I'm trying to make is that we can fix some things without adding chemicals, or cover the bottom in mats, or adding another species that most likely have an adverse affect. Tweak the genome a bit so it cause the species to die off or at least go into recession which will stop who knows how much of these clean in agents are pumped out into our lakes and rivers. Oceans are getting more acidic... there is no denying it.

Merry Christmas.

[Gator]

So, in case you didn't realize from my post above, I'm a gene jockey and I do this stuff for a living. The basic conceptual issue with engineering an "Achilles heel" into an organism is that it has to provide a selective advantage to be successfully spread through the population. If your genetic modification creates a weakness, then offspring will be disadvantaged and it won't spread. 

 

There are ways to do this, but it's not a simple thing and potential that DNA will jump between species (which is known to occur, albeit at a rate best measured in millennia) makes it imperative to be cautious. Keep in mind, this comes from a true believer. 

[Sk8man]

I have a great deal of respect for Keith's (Gator) take on this issue and his published work as well so I guess my above comment was a bit lacking in concept clarity. It is also apparent that there are two separate issues at hand here: the first being the prevention of additional invasives entering the watershed  and secondly the reduction/elimination of the current  culprits and problems which also cross the boundaries of plant and zoological entities. These certainly aren't simple problems with straightforward answers or solutions.

Edited December 25, 2015 by Sk8man

[muskiedreams]

I wish they would have been more cautious about the herbicides treatments they have allowed the Waneta and Lamoka Lake Association do in those lakes to try and control the eurasian watermilfoil. Or maybe they need to monitor it more closely. From what I have seen in Waneta Lake, there doesn't seem to be any aquatic vegetation at all at depths of 5 ft or more and sparse from shore to 5 ft. I haven't seen what it is like at Lamoka Lake. I am concerned about the long term affects and if they may be causing more problems than they are solving. Vegetation is needed to maintain a healthy balance in the lake.

[FishingTheFL]

Caution is always best. Like I said, Pandora's box. Seems they already opened it up to our food supply. Maybe as we get a better handle on it it will be possible in the future.

[Rich s]

GMO was introduced into our food supply about 20 years ago not knowing the side affects . If you notice, many of the big brands are now saying- NO GMO , such as Cheerios. Now that time has passed, effects are being realized.

I prefer organic which is not allowed to contain GMO.

Back to topic:

For any cause there is an effect.

The key for how I view things is to control the cause first . If the federal government doesn't regulate the importation of invasives through a filtering system of cargo shipping then their presence is inevitable and the states will always be backpedaling .

Stop the cause first !!

Rich

[Sk8man]

Agreed.

[FishingTheFL]

Agreed. Can't start at the end and expect anything to change. If we don't learn ho to stop it in the first place then something else could start another issue.

[icetrout]

If that is what it takes to prevent yet another nasty creature from infiltrating our waters,then so be it.

But at the same time,in order for these rules to be effective, the state must provide garbage cans of one type or other so we can dispose of the weeds and other junk that ends up on our trailers while launching.

That drying in the sun thing will not work in Rochester or any other humid place because either rain or heavy dew will keep things wet.

Thank God for the Zebra Mussel ! hope they do their job in cleaning the Upper Chesapeake Bay

[TileMan Dan]

Gotta be careful with what you wish for. Zebra mussels cleaned up L O a little to well.

[Patriot]

Gotta be careful with what you wish for. Zebra mussels cleaned up L O a little to well.

That's no lie. Now it's harder for me to catch fish

[Patriot]

I know there’s no excuse for ignorance of the law but they will need to post a lot of new signs at boat launches.

[Gator]

Great discussion so far. Nobody can argue with an ounce of prevention!

 

I'm wondering how they're going to enforce the law, but regardless of enforcement, it's a valid point that Joe Sportsman might have no idea the law even exists without some publicity. While in general I disagree with legislating common sense....what do they say about common sense not being so common? Maybe it takes some uproar to plant the idea in peoples' heads that this is serious stuff.

 

Even if the only outcome of these proposed changes is simply to rile people up, perhaps that's a good thing? The more awareness there is as to the severity of the issue, the better off we all are. I spend time wondering what the next geographically impaired screw up is going to be, and I sure don't want to be that guy who messes up somebody else's favorite fishing hole because they don't know or care enough to pay attention to what they're inadvertently introducing into a naive system.

 

As for zebra mussels...I wouldn't wish them on my worst enemy. 

[Kingfisher06]

Just another red herring law to invade your privacy...