Attention CNY and Southern Tier musky anglers

[justtracytrolling]

Tigerhunter and I would like to start a local musky conservation group. We aren't looking to infringe on chapter 69 and we are only focussing our efforts on working on very local issues. Issues like stocking pure breds, raising size limits, educational signage, and getting kids fishing. Trevor and I have both found we need a voice if we want to be heard. I'm not sure exactly how much we can really accomplish, but I intend to find out! Tigerhunter will be handling the paperwork/legal end of things and I'm gonna get a list of names together of guys who are interested and we will have an organizational meeting soon. If you want to attend this first meeting pm me your name and number. For now I'm just interested in guys who are interested being active members to help shape our club for the future. Feedback is encouraged!!!

[ERABBIT]

Is your PM working?

[EsoxOnly]

Count me in.

[Ivan]

First, I am all for any group that helps promote and improve muskie fishing opportunities. I also admire and commend your enthusiasm. It's often difficult to get people to dedicate their time to things like this.

Just wondering why you wouldn't just piggy back off of the MI Chapter. MI is a known and large organization with many benefits. There is strength in numbers. Start a local group or committee within the existing MI Chapter to work on the local projects that interest you.

The only reason why I'm suggesting this is because I have experience with being involved in starting muskie groups/organizations. Most recently, (a few years back now though) several of us were going to restart the Chautauqua Lake Musky Association. The first thing you need to do is to obtain a tax exempt status (501c3 i think)...that process is pretty difficult in NY now and is what squashed us restarting the Chq organization. Maybe one of you guys are an attorney though.

Just a suggestion.

[justtracytrolling]

Thanks Ivan...that is a possibility...I'm not sure how it works, but we have a few options.

[final flight]

Pure bred musky??? Or the invasive called tigers?

[Ronix 51]

Pure bred musky??? Or the invasive called tigers?

Invasive? Not sure if you are referring to tiger muskie as "invasive" but if so I think you may need to rethink that...

Edited January 7, 2016 by Ronix 51

[final flight]

What would you call a tiger "native" ????

[GAMBLER]

If pure muskies are planted in a body of water that they were not in naturally, they wouldn't they be an invasive species?

[Ronix 51]

What would you call a tiger "native" ????

Well first off they are stocked through by State agencies, so they are an intentionally introduced species that are sterile and can be controlled at the population level through stocking efforts. Second off, tiger musky occur naturally in any system that contain both Northern Pike and Muskie.

[Ronix 51]

If pure muskies are planted in a body of water that they were not in naturally, they wouldn't they be an invasive species?

No, there is a difference between invasive and introduced. Muskellunge in general, are a native species to the major drainages of NY/PA. "Invasive" indicates a negative connotation used to describe a species that has infiltrated a system and has adverse effects to native species and/or ecosystems (think of the round goby).

 

Do you refer to brown trout as an invasive? They aren't even native to this continent...

Edited January 7, 2016 by Ronix 51

[Tigerhunter]

Back to the topic at hand....

 

You can also PM me your info, be sure to include your location so we can try to figure out the best place for the first meeting.

[GAMBLER]

Invasive or Introduced, you are going to have a negative affect native species one way or another.  Call it what you want but I consider both the same. 

[Ronix 51]

Invasive or Introduced, you are going to have a negative affect native species one way or another.  Call it what you want but I consider both the same. 

As determined by who? You?  

 

I'm not entirely sure that I am following what you are getting at but I assume that you are implying that by stocking either tiger or pure strain muskie in a system will negatively impact species native to that system in some way?

[muskiedreams]

I agree with you Ivan. It has been an uphill battle with MI Chapter 69. The most difficult part is recruiting members who have or can develop a variety of talent and will actively contribute to creating and developing support and relationships between the fishing community and the DEC, the US dept of Fish and Wildlife, other conservation minded organizations including the SUNY ESF and other SUNY Universities as well as local community and economical development organizations. This may also include continually working to persuade those such as final flight to open their minds to what educated professionals in fisheries management have determined to be sound practices in fisheries management and not jumping to conclusions based on limited information or emotions. Things aren't always what they appear to be. Yes, sometimes mistakes are made, sometimes things happen that were not anticipated and may be difficult to determine cause (or causes) but I prefer to put my confidence in the experts. The system is far from perfect. Things happen slower than we would like but we have to work with it.

 

I am also a member of the Niagara Musky Association which has been in existence for over 20 years. They have many admirable accomplishments under their belt but it has taken a lot of dedication from some key members who have specific talents or have through dedication developed those talents and applied them in a team effort with many other dedicated members in conjunction with cooperation with all the entities mentioned above. Nothing of this nature happens overnight. It takes planning, research, support, time and a cooperative effort.

[final flight]

I wouldn't be so negitive if they stocked as many walleyes as they do tigers, check out the Pa. Stocking numbers for the north branch of the susky, unbelievable how many they place in this water shed, does not give the natural reproduction a very good chance for survival .

[Ronix 51]

final flight haven't we been over this before?

 

You're still making blatantly uninformed assumptions (and presenting them as fact, because well, that's how you feel) about fishery dynamics and the waters you fish and now this thread has gotten way off topic because of that and my inability to keep my mouth shut when people like you try to play bait-bucket biologist (My apologies Justin and Trevor). Do yourself a favor: read more (http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1577/1548-8659(1981)110%3C604%3ALBPOST%3E2.0.CO%3B2#.Vo65i3lIiUk, http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1577/1548-8675(1992)012%3C0474%3AMHSBAS%3E2.3.CO%3B2, http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1577/1548-8675(1996)016%3C0395%3ASSSAGO%3E2.3.CO%3B2). Contact your local fisheries biologist and politely ask them why they stock what they do and don't stock what they don't....and stop thinking you're smarter than them.

Edited January 7, 2016 by Ronix 51

[Tigerhunter]

I would like to keep this discussion focused on the start of a central/southern NY Muskie "club" Justin proposed earlier today.

If you would like to discuss other things that are unrelated to the start of this new "club", please start a new thread.

Thank you,

Trevor

[muskiedreams]

 

Just deleted to respet the topic.

Edited January 7, 2016 by muskiedreams

[justtracytrolling]

As sportsmen its SOOO tempting to get drawn into heated discussion, but here's the thing we are all on the same side. Yeah we all have our own selfish wishes....of course we aren't all gonna want the same fish stocked in the same water

...we will disagree...if you don't like how a water is being managed do something about it...or try at least. I have tried unsuccessfully every year to get more walleye in Otisco...can't be done by me is the answer...there are changes I'd like to see made in the tiger musky fishery management on otisco and perhaps I won't be able to change a thing but I am going to try. What I'm not going to do is argue on this forum anymore is argue over how to manage Otisco Lake. NYSDEC makes those decisions and if you don't like how it's being done make some calls and send some E mails, but don't argue with each other... it does nothing constructive.

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[Nautitroller]

Justin, not sure how I can help but I'm in. Not even a Ski fisherman but what you are suggesting sounds great, pm sent.

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[justtracytrolling]

To be perfectly honest John it should be a fishing club not a musky club, but gotta start somewhere. Just think all the trout guys help support the warm water guys and vice versa...it takes a loud voice for change. More stocking and more fishing opportunities for us to share!

[old man]

I'm available to help on any esox positive initiative. And be thankful for the diverse fisheries we enjoy. If all the twouts were gone it would get pretty crowded casting the weedlines for esox and bass. Same with walleye guys. A very intense group who could really be in my way if they switched to muskies. And for those who believe muskie and pike eat all your favorite fish i ask this: who eats more bass,walleye,and twouts? Muskies and pike or bass,walleye,and twout fishermen? Happy new year to all,catch your new pb whatever you're after!

[Ivan]

Sounds like something happened between some of you guys and the MI Chapter. Sorry, wasn't thinking of that as the reason for a different club. Good luck to you guys.

[Tigerhunter]

The reason I am interested in a different club is that I cannot actively participate in Muskies Inc. because of the distance. I am hoping that this club would be supplemental to Muskies Inc. and would be able to provide a larger geographical representation for what I believe would be common goals between the two.