seneca lake

[zaphod4]

OK.Over the past several years I have had my boat slipped at cayuga lake and lake ontario(oswego).I have never had a problem catching fish.This year we have a slip on the south end of seneca.Except for one good day when we caught 11 pike,we have had next to no success.Had been targeting browns & LL early in the year with limited action.The last few trips we have tried for lakers.Been trolling from watkins glen up past the salt factory then across the lake back south to watkins glen.Have seen some nice bait plumes but only caught 1 laker.Been using flashers and dodgers with spoons and flies along with just spoons.Been trying all different colors.Any help would be much appreciated.Also have yet to find any perch!Water temp on the south end is between 55-60(surface)as of this past weekend.

[goin hungry]

Welcome to Seneca! Many on this board have been able to figure this place out, but I've fished it for years and still can't - even using suggestions from others on techniques, etc. I still get more goose egg trips than fish in the boat, even if I count pike, but I do fine other places, so I don't know what's up with this lake. I guess my post isn't so helpful to solving your problem, but just wanted to let you know that you're not alone!

What I have found works is generally this, although keep in mind that I get many goose eggs too, so you'll need others to suppliment what I've got:

- Try switching trolling directions (go north on the east side, south down the west.) and troll using zig-zags. This makes the speed and depth change and may trigger strikes.

- Fish early AM or in late afternoon. I've had next to zero luck any other times during the day, and many say that this lake (on the south end anyway) is a late afternoon bite.

- stretch the spoons back and use light lines. The water is clear, so they will see you coming...

- I use a lot of natural color spoons on the opposite side of or following the rig with the attractor on it.

- Dipsies work pretty well. Run clean or with small attactor. Green on green for dipsies, attractors and flies are said to be great, although I have more (albeit limited) success with natural colors.

-don't be afraid to fish right on the bottom, or suspend over deeper water. We've caught fish 60-70ft down in the middle (over 400 ft. deep), especially on hot temp days.

- use a cheater. I've caught quite a few on a small watermellon spoon set 40-60ft down on a line that's down 100 ft.

- start shallow in the morning, then work out. They can be in 30 ft of water in the am, then move out as the day wears on.

- concentrate on the points. They're usually just above or below them, so we'll often troll up, around and back down, varying depth and speed as we go.

- bait pods. Some say fish them, as the fish will be around them. I tend to agree with this line of thinking, since the action, etc., will probably attract feeding fish. Others say that it's like selling hotdogs in a town where they give them away for free - there's too much competition and too many other things for the lakers to hit, so you're reducing your odds and should actually find some clear water that's holding lakers.

- find someone that knows the lake and how to catch them and tag along. There are several guys here that are more than willing. I have very limited time now, so I haven't been able to take anyone up on it, but I guarantee that several will offer you - so give it a shot. You'll learn more in a morning than you will in days of tooling around on your own.

I guess the best bit of advise I can give is to just be happy that you're out there. Have a beer, relax with your friends and be glad for that - it's not all about filling a cooler. This is the mantra that I may not agree with at all, but has kept me (on several occassions) from powering up the boat to full speed and driving it straight into the cliffs on the east side (I'd leave my gear down, of course).

[zaphod4]

Thanks for the reply goin hungry.Personally don't drink much.Fish with the wife and kids.Your right about being out there.Still better than doing yard work.Just so darn frustrating.Especially now that I have a slip on the lake.Will keep plugging away like you said.As far as the cliffs.Thought I would pull my gear up.Hate to have it catch the bottom and slow me down right before impact.

[snyder]

zaphod4,

We fished out of the south end saturday and cought 8 lakers in the morning. Cought most on a spindoctor and fly and a couple on spoons. Black/green spindoctor with green fly worked best early fished off a dipsey. Trolling at 2.5mph on the gps early and then we tried different speed as the fishing slowed down. Cought 3 by US salt between 6:30 and 7am in 120 - 140fow. Trolled across the lake. Had a douple in about 70fow just north of the falls. Around 8:30 the sun burned through the haze and the bite slowed. We threw the tackle box at em' after that and cought our last three.

Normally all shades of green spindoctors and green or mirage flies work well for us on seneca. Blue smartfish worked really well in the derby a couple weeks ago.

You should go back and read Ray's posts. He gives some great advice.

[Robert Benner]

OK.Over the past several years I have had my boat slipped at cayuga lake and lake ontario(oswego).I have never had a problem catching fish.This year we have a slip on the south end of seneca.Except for one good day when we caught 11 pike,we have had next to no success.Had been targeting browns & LL early in the year with limited action.The last few trips we have tried for lakers.Been trolling from watkins glen up past the salt factory then across the lake back south to watkins glen.Have seen some nice bait plumes but only caught 1 laker.Been using flashers and dodgers with spoons and flies along with just spoons.Been trying all different colors.Any help would be much appreciated.Also have yet to find any perch!Water temp on the south end is between 55-60(surface)as of this past weekend.

Hello: Seneca is hit or miss. You should try small Yozuri crystal minnows black top/silver side/white bottom a must. Troll them on black rigger balls back 100' from the weight at 2 mph. Then zig zag and do random stops and starts and keep the baits just above the lakers since they have a tendency to hit up on those white bottom plugs. At worse case just go to Kueka if you want some lake trout action and they are wild there.

The Remedy!

[IA bowhunter]

I was and still am learning the lake. I received alot of advise from Ray on this site. I try to fish Seneca a couple of times a week on the south end mostly on the west side to the salt plant. I have caught a lot of lakers since the spring but as of late it has been slow. we were getting our limit just about all the time but have been catching only one or two now, yesterday went out and caught two in front of Tiki bar. As Ray says "green" I have been catching everything on dipsey's with green spin doctors and mostly a-tom-mik fly's. I have played around a few miles up the lake and on the east side but have cought the majority of fish on south/west end. Looking at spending a little more time on lake ontario

[jason]

big weenies flys work the best for me on seneca

[NitroMusky]

- Dipsies work pretty well. Run clean or with small attactor. Green on green for dipsies, attractors and flies are said to be great, although I have more (albeit limited) success with natural colors.

Hey Hungry-

curious how far back off the dipsy you or other folks are running the lure there, given the clarity (or if the clarity even makes a bit of difference). I've been doing around 8 ft with little success. based on the clarity comment and the one on needing to be way back of the ball, I guess that might or might not be the reason but at least I don't feel left out!

[jason]

we run ours about 20 ft back off the dipsy

[ray koziatek]

nm,8 ft is fine lakers are 80 to 126 ft down as a general rule though as noted they can be from the top to the bottom .specially in these water temps .set dypsys at 2.5 240 ft back. and remember these are bottom orentated fish (they lay on the bottom)so the heavest concentration will be in the 100 to 120 ft deep water .Just dont blink when running this line as the bottom depth does vary a lot .Also this time of year the "bite" window could be just a few hrs each day so ya gotta put in some time . the am and pm bite is a pretty good rule of thumb just remember am this time of year is 5:00am or earlier

[ladyblugill]

hey ray....i'm a little confused and maybe that's why i don't like running dipsies when the fish are more than 90 ft. down. i run my dipsies at 3 setting which i thought was 1 down for every 3 out on the counter. now if the fish are near bottom in 120 how does the 2.5 work? i will admit i'm not a mathamician or even a plummer. . also how do you guys net fish with a 20 ft. lead. i only run my spin drs. 5 or 6 back from the dipsy on lake o. never gone for lakers on seneca before so maybe things work diferent there?

[ray koziatek]

jason is confused i think he ment 20 ft off the ball. run your dypsy lead in acording to your pole length and net length .the 8 fts is a good lead length throw in a 8" spinny with a 22" fly now your up to 10 ft to the fish at the back of the boat.the numbers are more a "reference" number not a ratio as to depth to line out. the 3 is the "higest" and most out to the side setting with 1 being the deeper and behind the boat setting .I was always tought and have found to be true with my own experience the 2.5 setting is pretty close to 3 to 1 ratio at 2.7 mph once you get out 200ft wire or more with spindctrs.Speed ,currents ,tackle drag ,all effect this ratio a little .so 270 ft at a 2.5 setting will put you in the 90ft depth range .always start out with 20 or 40 ft less than the formule 230 to 250 ft and let out 10 ft more at a time if you arnt getting results . Just dont let out too much more than the 3 to1 ratio or youll be raking clams (zebras)

[ladyblugill]

thanks for the info on the dipsies. it all makes sense and i have never had it explained like that to me before. with the 20 foot lead i thought maybe you guys down there like to hand line them in at the end. kinda like a throback to the seth green days.

[goin hungry]

nope - I go the lenght of the rod (between 7 & 9 ft) for the distance back from the dipsy, otherwise you have trouble netting. Plus, I think to some extent the dipsy acts as a bit of an attractor, so it's not that you want to get away from it the same way you would the boat (which is why you have a longer stretch off the ball).

Also, keep in mind that if you're running an attractor on a dipsy it will affect the depth that it's running, since that adds more drag and affects the planing action, so if you've got two dipsies on the same setting, one with an attractor and one without, the one without will be running deeper.

[NitroMusky]

Thats great info everyone. I really appreciate all the details. that really clarifies things.

[zaphod4]

Fished for about an hour Friday around 6pm.Got chased off by lightning.Fished from 12pm-3pm saturday.Nada,nothing,nil,zero,zilch.Marked very few fish.Marked several bait pods.Fished south end,west side from several miles north of salt plant all the way south to watkins glen.Haven't caught a fish in my last 4 trips out on the lake.

[goin hungry]

sounds about right for that lake...

seriously, the weather was a bit unsettled this weekend, so that may have some impact, but if you describe what program you ran, maybe others can chime in and help out.

[ERABBIT]

As goin hungry said give us your spread that you have been running and maybe someone can help you. June is a tought month on Seneca but BIG fish are also in the picture now...............

[zaphod4]

Ran 2 dipseys,2 downrigger(about 20' from the ball) and a thumper down the chute.Kept the thumper in the top 10' of water 200' back.Ran the dipseys and riggers anywhere from 100-40 ft down.Speed from 2.5 - 1.5 gps speed(haven't got my sub-troll 900 back yet).Started with spin doctors & flashers w/e-chip(green/white)with green and then white jitterflies.Changed to dodgers instead of spin doctors.Then a couple spoons behind flashers with e-chip.

[ERABBIT]

The thing that sticks out the most with your spread and the one I posted over the past 12 days or so is the dipsy depth. I think I stuck a fish every time out with the dipsy rig and it was never 30' always less. I'm not sure how deep but we never had more than 110' out which on a 3-2 -1 ratio would be 36' with wire large dispy and ring but I was running mono and a size down from the large dipsy and no ring. I didn't get over 2 @ the ball which was about 2.3 SOG on the GPS so your speed looks good. I also do a lot of "S" turns and with a dodger/fly or peanut down bump bottom with the cannon ball. A bare spoon back 60+ feet from the ball and 20' down also took fish. If I was not marking fish but bait I would adjust my riggers to run thru the bait pod. We also ran tight to shoals and structre which some times will bounce your deep rigger ball on the bottom. Check and change lines on a 20 minute deal. Then try a differnt line of troll watching your rigger balls to see that they are tracking straight for you ................that's all I can think of right now. Maybe Ray or some of the good trollers on this site will give you better advice.

[zaphod4]

Thanks Ed.Guess I may have been running a little too deep.Do the "S" turns.change things up when not working.I've been trolling for a while now.Never had this kind of dry spell.Have fished Ontario and Cayuga a lot without any problems.Just having a hard time with this lake.Hoping that once the thermocline sets up fish will get easier to target.Fingers crossed.Usually only get out on Saturdays so I am really at the mercy of the the poke and hope gods.

[ERABBIT]

Yep it gets MUCH better when things set up.........the "S" will speed up your outside spread and slow up or even stall the inside if you get real agressive with your turn. Lake trout like to follow stuff before the comit to eating it as many other fish do so this will "trigger" strikes some times. It will also tell you if you may be going too fast or to slow............if the outside rod fires every time on a turn = speed up some............inside rod= slow down.................

[goin hungry]

yup - S-turn is a great tool to trigger strikes and allows you to see what the fish want. If most fish are coming on a turn, then that tells you that you either need to speed up/raise up, or lower/slow down, depending on if they hit on the inside or outside of the turn.

I'm not surprised that you didn't get anything between noon and 3pm - that's usually pretty dead time, even on a good day.

Few other recommendations I'd have:

-I'm assuming you're running lighter line in this clear water.

-try stretching the lures back off the ball, even if it's only off one side. I'll often go 50-75 ft. back if it's really clear/sunny.

- vary your spreed on each side. For instance, maybe have a flasher/fly at 20 ft off the ball on one side, followed up by a clean spoon 10 ft deeper and 30-40 ft back on the other.

-I've found that some times too many flashers / dodgers in the water are counterproductive. Maybe use one to draw them in, then set other clean spoons a little deeper and a little farther back.

- Don't know what depths you were trolling, but don't hesitate to head out over deeper water and pick up suspended fish.

-throw on a watermelon spoon on a slider/cheater off one of the rigger lines - may pick up a bow or LL.

[ray koziatek]

80,90,and120ft target zones down,240 on the#1 dypsys on 2.5 setting,2.5 to2.7mph. on the dypsys id run dark green spinny with green fly,chartruse or mtn dew early morn or late afternoon or cloudy day.green dolphin or green and chartruse spoons mid day,purple stix in the top 25ft water .run as close to bottom with deepest rigger 6 ft back on the deep rigger .if your not running dypsys run 75 to 100ft on the spoons ya might wake up a brown and some of those lakers need a second chance,with a long lead,suttons or some flutter spoons on the sliders .watch the bottom close(zoom in) when you se a laker laying there turn out to the middle for then head back to the shore run 100ftsh.if that dont work stop in at burger king and get a fish sandwitch.

[IRISH56]

I'm coming in late on this so if I misunderstood please let me know ... you are running a thumper rod "in the top 10' of water 200' back?" When I hear thumper rod I am thinking a 1 lb. ball rig thumping off the bottom with a dodger/fly combo or something similar, killer for lakers. If that's what you're running then drop that sucker down .

DAN