What's this really costing us?

[Big Water]

A friend is considering getting his Captain's License and had asked another LOU member about how many trips he would need to make to start making profit. He told him something like 30 or 40 (I can't remember the exact number). My friend called me and said that surprised him so I threw together a quick Excel Spreadsheet that allows you to enter fixed and variable costs and shows you your break-even point. It uses 20 year straight line depreciation without salvage for the boat costs if you enter that. This isn't a thorough breakdown and I wouldn't be taking it to the CPA for review, but I thought you may be entertained. I'm sure there are much more advanced programs out there, but what do you want for 10 minutes of work?

The preceding has not been reviewed and no accuracy should be implied. The creator is to be held harmless and for any misuse, misinterpretation, errors or any other stuff like that.

Nevermind, It won't allow me to upload a spreadsheet.

If you want a copy, pm me your email address and I'll send it.

Edited February 13, 2016 by Big Water

[PolarBear]

     

[Sk8man]

It probably isn't far off for many circumstances.  Back some time ago my wife and I took a course on starting your own small business from the Business College (evenings) at FLCC. She did hers on Social Work Private Practice and I did mine on chartering as I was close to retirement and had thought about getting my captain's license etc.. We had to develop a thorough business plan and then present it at the end to the class with a breakdown including earnings on an hourly basis (which I knew from experience would be a problem ). I presented my findings and cost breakdowns etc. and got to the hourly wage part at the end and it amounted to something like $2.79 per hour. I could see right there the only benefit for me would be the potential write off for my addiction Florida, California maybe a different story where you have the whole year to make money but there you have all the competition too. You really have to love to fish and these guys earn their money too. Additionally I got to thinking do I really want to take a chance on getting burned out on something that I love so much dealing with all the potential issues without being able to actually fish myself all that much.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Sk8man

[Paul Czarnecki]

You've discovered what some people never do---it is VERY difficult to run a profitable business when you only work a few months a year!

[RD9]

What does a charter boat pay for insurance a year? I do roughly 20 trips a year friends, friends of friends and local people. I never take a dime, but I have collected several thirty packs, various pig parts and a 10 dollar gift card from my cousin whom wants to go out twice next year and take his buddies once and his wife dad and brother inlaw.

Don't get me wrong I enjoy watching and teaching more then I actually enjoy catching them myself. I guess at some point the challenge in my brain became how many can we catch with people who don't know anything. We Erie walleye fish and are also on Lake Ontario a week in spring a week in the fall.

[Big Water]

I do roughly 20 trips a year friends, friends of friends and local people. Don't get me wrong I enjoy watching and teaching more then I actually enjoy catching them myself. I guess at some point the challenge in my brain became how many can we catch with people who don't know anything. We Erie walleye fish and are also on Lake Ontario a week in spring a week in the fall.

I'm with you RD9. I work in a company of 15,000+ people and there are a lot of people I've become friends with over the last 20 some years that like fishing. I have a few regulars I fish with frequently and fit in others when the opportunity arises, but it's about figuring out what it's going to take to put fish in the boat. I really don't care if I touch a rod, it's about the challenge. I get some gas money, tackle or gifts cards sometimes and that suits me fine.

P.s. My wife always says that "we bought this boat and you don't even do any fishing". What she doesn't get is that it's the puzzle to be figured out and the challenge for me. I suppose it's like that for some others too.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Big Water

[spoonfed-1]

And the look on a kids face when his first Salmon hits the floor of the boat.......

Priceless.

[Big Water]

And the look on a kids face when his first Salmon hits the floor of the boat.......

Priceless.

 

+1

[Patriot]

When it becomes a job, your done

[RD9]

Yes, watching a kid whom never would have had a chance to catch an eight pound walleye see it flop around on the deck, holding the rod in one hand while his old man is frantically trying to help with no clue what to do is absolutely great.

[Frogger]

Ok Les, I'll hire ha, 2.79 an hr on Seneca, perch first. I'm in !

[Big Water]

Ok Les, I'll hire ha, 2.79 an hr on Seneca, perch first. I'm in !

Where's the Like Button?

[Sk8man]

:lol:

[Todd in NY]

Interesting numbers. I enjoy fishing too much to turn it into a business.

[Big Water]

Interesting numbers. I enjoy fishing too much to turn it into a business.

Funny. When I was a kid and people asked me what I wanted to do for a living, I always said "fish". I knew that it wasn't an undertaking to make money in. It wasn't till MANY years later that I realized some people actually do. Probably a good thing I didn't know that then.

[Todd in NY]

Funny. When I was a kid and people asked me what I wanted to do for a living, I always said "fish". I knew that it wasn't an undertaking to make money in. It wasn't till MANY years later that I realized some people actually do. Probably a good thing I didn't know that then.

I'm the kind of guy that would put too much pressure on myself to put fish in the boat. I'm a fisherman, so I know how difficult that can be on certain days. But you have those customers that think that they are guaranteed to catch fish on a charter boat because they paid good money to a professional captain, and somehow, that makes them 100% certain that the lake is full of fish just waiting to see the deck of your boat.

 

I have little tolerance for people who think that catching a limit of fish is 100% guaranteed every time you go "catching".

[Legacy]

You've discovered what some people never do---it is VERY difficult to run a profitable business when you only work a few months a year!

Yes, listen to this guy!

Sent from my E6782 using Lake Ontario United mobile app

[justtracytrolling]

I love taking people more than catching fish so it was an obvious fit. As far as making it profitable...thats not why i do it. Im self employed and Tracy and I are at the lake EVERY weekend or it wouldnt be possible. I love the challenge, teaching, taking kids, and meeting new people. I get a mix of fishing with customers, friends, family, tournaments, and solo...i wouldnt wanna give up any of it!

[RD9]

How much yearly for insurance? Original question.

[Legacy]

How much yearly for insurance? Original question.

It really depends on the boat and the amount of coverage. $500-1000

Sent from my E6782 using Lake Ontario United mobile app

[Todd in NY]

I love taking people more than catching fish so it was an obvious fit. As far as making it profitable...thats not why i do it. Im self employed and Tracy and I are at the lake EVERY weekend or it wouldnt be possible. I love the challenge, teaching, taking kids, and meeting new people. I get a mix of fishing with customers, friends, family, tournaments, and solo...i wouldnt wanna give up any of it!

You have the right attitude and mindset, like the captain I fished with last year. His attitude, personality and professionalism made for a fun day, even during the 3 hours where we only caught 1 fish. We finished with a limit of lake trout (which took more than 8 hours) and no salmon, but I won't hesitate to fish with him again.

[Adm Byrd]

It probably isn't far off for many circumstances.  Back some time ago my wife and I took a course on starting your own small business from the Business College (evenings) at FLCC. She did hers on Social Work Private Practice and I did mine on chartering as I was close to retirement and had thought about getting my captain's license etc.. We had to develop a thorough business plan and then present it at the end to the class with a breakdown including earnings on an hourly basis (which I knew from experience would be a problem ). I presented my findings and cost breakdowns etc. and got to the hourly wage part at the end and it amounted to something like $2.79 per hour. I could see right there the only benefit for me would be the potential write off for my addiction Florida, California maybe a different story where you have the whole year to make money but there you have all the competition too. You really have to love to fish and these guys earn their money too. Additionally I got to thinking do I really want to take a chance on getting burned out on something that I love so much dealing with all the potential issues without being able to actually fish myself all that much.

Heck lots of times we are on my boat with my bait and its still worth more than $2.79 an hour to be entertained by you, especially when the fish aren't biting and I get to see all the tackle you bring along!! :rofl:

[Capt Vince Pierleoni]

There are certainly many definitions of success. It has been an observation of mine that in order to successful in the boats/captains for hire game in a financial way, that there must not be a safety net or "fall back plan." With all the sacrifices and discipline necessary in this business, the alternative will almost always be chosen. That being said, there are several very good and professional Part time Charter businesses on the Great Lakes. These operations always treat it as a true business and the owners are truly passionate about fishing and taking people fishing.

As for the insurance question, it all depends on the amount of coverage for the vessel(s) and the amount of liability carried. 

[skipper19]

I've already got one business where I hold a steering wheel, wouldn't want to replace it with another where it was 4 months out of a year and only 2 are really busy. This economy works against everyone. Potential customers are cutting back on discretionary spending, the charter businesses are having to raise rates or apply fuel surcharges due to increased operating costs. It's 180 degrees apart from a reasonable cost/profit margin.

Other costs and annoying regulations haven't even been scratched here. Like the DOT in interstate transportation, you need your vessel inspection, you need your human being systems checked at the doctors office. It's like jumping through hoops of fire now on this stuff. Better not have ANY sugar or BP issues, mobility trouble, you will be gettimg checked at a lab every 3 months to remain active. You need background checks and finger printing and keep an identification card.

I like just fishing for fun...I used to think driving the big truck was fun...not so much anymore. Same reason...and I don't like showing people how to drive around big trucks. .cause they don't want to learn. However showing a few new folks the fun we have on the big lake is what it's about...and THAT...is my recreation. Not gonna make it...annoying..

[Patriot]

Funny, this thread reminds me of a charter out of Oswego, "THE OTHER WOMAN"