Copper Lengths Answer...simplified? YES!

[skipper19]

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.apps.docs.editors.sheets

Forgot to mention this free app to download from Google play to open the sheet from the link in the 1st post of this thread and work it on a smartphone or tablet.

[skipper19]

30 lb Mono added. Anyone wanting answers, to any reel can pm me..BESIDES OKUMA MODELS and blood run super braid 65lb.. (use the lists already provided by Legacy Capt. Rob for those) I commend him for taking the time to personally hand check those applications ..,On the others, I'll send you a link to use the sheet yourself, or I can do it for you, and send you a copy of the results. Just let me know your segment choices, (length and test) and give me a reel make/ model or 30# mono capacity in yards of one you plan to use. I'll do my best to help you set up without wasting time or money on guessing the outcome. Looking forward to helping anyone and make the calculator better as it evolves! It does work very well!

Mark

[Silver Fox]

I would like to know how much 45# copper with sufficient backing I can get on a zebco 202? It's on my barbie pole in the garage collecting dust and I want to use it

Edited February 24, 2016 by Silver Fox

[skipper19]

I would like to know how much 45# copper with sufficient backing I can get on a zebco 202? It's on my barbie pole in the garage collecting dust and I want to use it

14...v

V

V

V

V

Cents worth.

Don't give the Scotsman any more bruises from rolling on the floor laughing. That is privileged info now...

[skipper19]

...

I thought we left Ray in The Keys in a hammock wearing his speedo 2 sizes too small...:unsure:

Edited February 24, 2016 by skipper19

[skipper19]

I'll pm it to ya Scott, do you want the copper to reach the water or just the end of the rod. . I would go with the 808 and tournament tidly drags in case ya want more backing. Them bluegills can tear up a 202 and ya might get spooled....I hate it when kids get discouraged right away...

[Silver Fox]

K, I'll switch out to a 808.

[skipper19]

The barbie pole is a bit whimpy....buzz lightyear has more power in the butt. ...awwe crap!...Dam...now I'm getting complicated. .better stick to the known stuff...I'm outta my league on this.

[skipper19]

This is my Daiwa Seagate 60, one of two. Both done with the calculating spread sheet, one was loaded with 900 feet 30# power pro and 600 feet of 32 lb blood run copper. The reel is nice and full. The other done with the same calculator and looks exactly like this one, has 900 feet power pro 30# and 400 feet of 45 lb blood run copper.

Both accurately measured with laser and filled perfectly using the formula. No guessing, no waste of money and no shorter copper than you really wanted or excessive space left on the spool. I could have used 50 lb braid and had the same copper but shorter backing...how much? I wouldn't know without the calculation, but I find the use of 50 lb backing pointless, and space wasting, when braid is under rated on tensile strength usually by 135 to 165 percent anyway. Knot strength is the weak point in braid and what counts in the real world of use in fishing. Good, careful knots are essential in retaining higher percentage of breaking point in braid lines. Most manufacturers of braid take this into consideration, and rate their braid according to knot strength breaking point, and NOT the tensile strength. So tie good knots!

Mark

[Sk8man]

Along that line standard clinch knots are not recommended for use with braid because they can slip.

[skipper19]

Along that line standard clinch knots are not recommended for use with braid because they can slip.

Exactly, and Albright is the same thing, because they constrict and braid is effective at cutting copper and itself too..

[wishinfishin]

If you dont do an albright knot at the braid to copper knot, what do you use? Do you think the albright is good for leader to copper

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G730A using Lake Ontario United mobile app

[skipper19]

If you dont do an albright knot at the braid to copper knot, what do you use? Do you think the albright is good for leader to copper

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G730A using Lake Ontario United mobile app

I used to use the Albright on the backing and a couple occasions the copper (32lb) broke at the backing on hard charging kings. I thought it was knot failure. I found the knot was intact and so was the copper inside of it. When I tested different forms of Albright the results were the same. The copper broke right behind the knot, not in the middle. The Albright gets very tight at the top of its grip and as it got tighter over a series of pulls it pinched and stretched that spot just above the top of the winds of the knot. Broke there every time.

I use something that no one I know uses. Mostly because it's not a simple task of tying a knot, because there is no knot. It's the use of hollow core braid to the copper connection and the leader also. It's tedious so most don't bother with it, but this retains 100% tensile strength of lines used to make transitions. No knot, easy through the guides and no trouble on any reel. There are many, many advantages to it. The hollow core grips the copper over a spread of 6 or 7 feet like a finger trap. It can't come out. The end of the hollow core is served with braid line to keep it from fraying. The other end can be fed back into itself to form a loop, or tie a loop as I do for mine. The copper now has no knots involved and the braid is the only part that has knots to form loops. Then it's simple loop to loop connection there. The hollow core is 80lb power pro called Hollow Ace. Very strong no knot on the copper.

Again, it's tedious, and if you do have any failure out on the water, it's not easy to assemble in the boat. Your only recourse is to go back to the Albright to continue fishing with that rig. However the failure will never be a knot connection on the copper itself.

Mark

[skipper19]

I used to use the Albright on the backing and a couple occasions the copper (32lb) broke at the backing on hard charging kings. I thought it was knot failure. I found the knot was intact and so was the copper inside of it. When I tested different forms of Albright the results were the same. The copper broke right behind the knot, not in the middle. The Albright gets very tight at the top of its grip and as it got tighter over a series of pulls it pinched and stretched that spot just above the top of the winds of the knot. Broke there every time.

I use something that no one I know uses. Mostly because it's not a simple task of tying a knot, because there is no knot. It's the use of hollow core braid to the copper connection and the leader also. It's tedious so most don't bother with it, but this retains 100% tensile strength of lines used to make transitions. No knot, easy through the guides and no trouble on any reel. There are many, many advantages to it. The hollow core grips the copper over a spread of 6 or 7 feet like a finger trap. It can't come out. The end of the hollow core is served with braid line to keep it from fraying. The other end can be fed back into itself to form a loop, or tie a loop as I do for mine. The copper now has no knots involved and the braid is the only part that has knots to form loops. Then it's simple loop to loop connection there. The hollow core is 80lb power pro called Hollow Ace. Very strong no knot on the copper.

Again, it's tedious, and if you do have any failure out on the water, it's not easy to assemble in the boat. Your only recourse is to go back to the Albright to continue fishing with that rig. However the failure will never be a knot connection on the copper itself.

Mark

http://www.lakeontariounited.com/fishing-hunting/index.php?/topic/21862-New-Power-pro-hollow-ace-braid?

This was from April 2011 on here. I've been doing this ever since and never a failure. Check the imbedded u tube video.

[wishinfishin]

I will check it out.

Albright on diver wire to braid ok?

Albright on floro/mono to copper ok?

I ask because this has been what im doing if theres no swivel between connections

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G730A using Lake Ontario United mobile app

[final flight]

WOW.. I guess I'm one of the few that uses a 40lb. Spro swivel for the backing and the floro. .....better change so I can start loosing kings. Lmao !!!

[skipper19]

I will check it out.

Albright on diver wire to braid ok?

Albright on floro/mono to copper ok?

I ask because this has been what im doing if theres no swivel between connections

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G730A using Lake Ontario United mobile app

Mono, flouro are softer components and also more mass area than braid in 30lb category in a finished albright. So it's not as abusive as braid on soft copper. Steel for divers is way different doesn't possess the weaknesses of copper.

I use the hollow core on the leader end for 3 reasons.

1 it's permanent and never needs a knot scrutiny.

2 No knot catching guides, it flows out and in with no bump.

3 I can change leaders quickly with loop to loop connection

[Silver Fox]

WOW.. I guess I'm one of the few that uses a 40lb. Spro swivel for the backing and the floro. .....better change so I can start loosing kings. Lmao !!!

I use the spro also, I'm not trusting that Albright. We lost a fish due to that knot and it cost us in a tourny

[skipper19]

I use the spro also, I'm not trusting that Albright. We lost a fish due to that knot and it cost us in a tourny

Everyone I know uses spro but ya still got a knot! Haywire or what ever

In my case, since using the hollow core, I've never lost any fish due to a knot connection on copper. The Albright is a good knot. Just not on soft copper. The haywire is good but it's thick. Keep using the spro if it works! I just like smmmooothhh.LMFAO! TOO! HHHAAAHAAA AHAA!

Edited March 1, 2016 by skipper19

[skipper19]

Sorry....ahem, but wishin fishin asked me specifically what ...I do....it's not for everyone. It does work, and everyone has their way of doing things. If you would like to offer the spro connection as an alternative, please feel free. This excursion on this particular thread and disperages to efforts to help anyone in my experiences with some things I have found new and useful, and to almost all of its misunderstandings has led me to think some of you are to anal..yze about tried and true methods. Offering improved methods I have hand tried, and DO WORK are what I have done. Offer your own in detail, if you have them but please don't sh!T on mine....done....

[TyeeTanic]

I currently have an albright knot between the braid backing and copper. Next time I replace my copper, I'll be adding the spro swivel. I just don't want to peel 300 ft of copper off right now to do it.  But I've go the spro swivels ready to go in my tackle box!

[skipper19]

It would be good to get rid of that Albright to copper. Like a ticking time bomb that can't be predicted. Unfortunately the only time it fails is on a nice hard running fish. The spro is much better. Do you use the haywire on the copper?

[wishinfishin]

Thanks skipper19, I watched the video landshark was kind enough to post,good stuff!

[wishinfishin]

I use the hay wire when using spro swivel with heat shrink to top off. And would add the heat shrink is not because I think it will fail but to help keep end from fraying and a smoother transition reeling in going thru the eyes and the reel.

[skipper19]

Thanks skipper19, I watched the video landshark was kind enough to post,good stuff!

You are welcome, if you want to try it, PM me and I'll help you with more specific details. They used Cortland C16 but I found Power pro Hollow Ace much easier to work with. Special simple tools are necessary for the operation. They are or were available at Fat Nancy tackle. On line you can get the "Da Ho" needle as well from tackle direct site I believe. A bobbin is handy for the serving. I use a fly tying one.