Sale of FIsh

[Hookedup]

Dam this thread got interesting LOL. No servay needs to be taken to decide if a perch Fisherman who sells fish would still fish as much, keep as many, or spend as many days targeting fish if they couldn't sell them. Anything with a profit on it will get more pressure. Look at tuna if any Joe blow could sell blue fin tuna we would all be out looking for them. Just like if perch were worth big money guys would come out of the woodwork untill they flooded the market. If the market/demand grew then they would be gone. It's small time now so not a problem that has been dove on. I check Severne launch daily and in the worst winter weather the same guys are there. It's not because they love fishing and obviously they are retired or don't need to look for work. Not sure what the answer is and I'm not bashing anyone. I run Charters and pay taxes on the money I make, crap I can't even get a warranty on a boat motor because I'm concidred commercial. Charter clients pay for the trip and the experience they don't pay for fish. And in my opinion and group of kids or kid that can jump on board an issue and get involved should never be torn apart. Have a great season everyone! Sean

[Sk8man]

Thanks Sean.

 

It is totally an  "under the table" process Ed which is another problem because unlike other foodstuff it isn't subject to any inspection or monitoring (e.g. sanitary conditions or processing etc.) . It is also interesting that the DEC publishes all sorts of warnings about consumption of fish from the NYS waters yet doesn't regulate in any way this trafficking.

 

I do have to qualify a statement I made earlier above: I mentioned that the perch were a public resource and that the money derived from the sale  them actually should belong to the public. I was trying to accentuate my point about them as a resource belonging to all of us not that the money should actually be turned over to the government. Believe it or not I share some similar anti governmental intervention feelings (e.g. the so-called SAFE Act etc.) that Kingfisher mentioned.  There are also situations where money and greed are involved that something has to be put in place to to correct emerging problems or abuses because the people benefiting are obviously not going to be the ones to do it (witness the current jailed legislators and their pensions).

Edited March 9, 2016 by Sk8man

[Kingfisher06]

Errabbit it was by the pound as well.

 

I disagree Hookedup. I still keep all the perch I can for the freezer. I love having a nice stockpile of filets for visiting family etc. Priorities change, monetary situations change.  

 

Perch are worth the most per lb this year then I have ever seen. Didn't change my mind to keep the freezer as full as I can.

 

When you have a school teacher guiding a bunch of students in a direction you don't agree with, well it's important or more so to speak up. This is a representative of the state paid by tax dollars who is pushing a bull crap agenda and proselytizing his message with youngster's voices. It's pitiful.

[Kingfisher06]

Thanks Sean.

 

It is totally an  "under the table" process Ed which is another problem because unlike other foodstuff it isn't subject to any inspection or monitoring (e.g. sanitary conditions or processing etc.) . It is also interesting that the DEC publishes all sorts of warnings about consumption of fish from the NYS waters yet doesn't regulate in any way this trafficking.

 

I do have to qualify a statement I made earlier above: I mentioned that the perch were a public resource and that the money derived from the sale  them actually should belong to the public. I was trying to accentuate my point about them as a resource belonging to all of us not that the money should actually be turned over to the government. Believe it or not I share some similar anti governmental intervention feelings (e.g. the so-called SAFE Act etc.) that Kingfisher mentioned.  There are also situations wghere money and greed are involved that something has to be put in place to to correct emerging problems or abuses because the people benefiting are obviously not going to be the ones to do it (witness the current jailed legislators and their pensions).

You cannot regulate greed. If you give the state the chance though, they'll pick their winner and sway the market in their favor so the greed can go unchecked. The only thing that regulates greed is fear, fear of losing what you've hoarded and it's supply for more. For the right price the state can eliminate that fear. That's corruption and the essence of what I speak about. Don't appeal to the State, because eventually they will come to get your valued aspects of liberty too.

[Kingfisher06]

Thanks Sean.

 

It is totally an  "under the table" process Ed which is another problem because unlike other foodstuff it isn't subject to any inspection or monitoring (e.g. sanitary conditions or processing etc.) . It is also interesting that the DEC publishes all sorts of warnings about consumption of fish from the NYS waters yet doesn't regulate in any way this trafficking.

 

I do have to qualify a statement I made earlier above: I mentioned that the perch were a public resource and that the money derived from the sale  them actually should belong to the public. I was trying to accentuate my point about them as a resource belonging to all of us not that the money should actually be turned over to the government. Believe it or not I share some similar anti governmental intervention feelings (e.g. the so-called SAFE Act etc.) that Kingfisher mentioned.  There are also situations where money and greed are involved that something has to be put in place to to correct emerging problems or abuses because the people benefiting are obviously not going to be the ones to do it (witness the current jailed legislators and their pensions).

Harvey would get inspected from time to time, it is not an under the table, unregulated situation. Name some instances of food poisoning from fried local perch. Good grief, you're reaching. Go have a tilapia burrito at Chipolte and call me in the morning...

[Chas0218]

Just wondering about the sale part I some what understand where Kingfisher06 is coming from ....

 

How does the selling work?

 

Do the buyer have rules to follow ?

I sell perch every year. Basically I sell them to a guy that gives me a certain price based on live weight and the need for the fish most buyers will not accept fish smaller than 7.5"m it isn't worth their time to fillet any smaller. If he has an abundance of fillets the price goes down, and generally I don't sell them and instead put them in my freezer. I only do it to supplement the cost of bait and some gas money. On a good day I can catch 30 lbs. by myself this is live weight not fillets now most of my in laws do the same. Some days we do better some days worse. 

 

One season (about 7 years ago) my wife and I had a good season and were able to catch 100lbs. in a weekend and did that for a several weeks. It was nice as I was in college and this was my beer/gas money. 

 

This is a way of life of there and many people do this for a living so outlawing this would in fact put people out of a job. Any game fish is already illegal to sell why not find a way to catch or prevent those catching and selling fish in NYC.

[Chas0218]

Thanks Sean.

 

It is totally an  "under the table" process Ed which is another problem because unlike other foodstuff it isn't subject to any inspection or monitoring (e.g. sanitary conditions or processing etc.) . It is also interesting that the DEC publishes all sorts of warnings about consumption of fish from the NYS waters yet doesn't regulate in any way this trafficking.

 

I do have to qualify a statement I made earlier above: I mentioned that the perch were a public resource and that the money derived from the sale  them actually should belong to the public. I was trying to accentuate my point about them as a resource belonging to all of us not that the money should actually be turned over to the government. Believe it or not I share some similar anti governmental intervention feelings (e.g. the so-called SAFE Act etc.) that Kingfisher mentioned.  There are also situations where money and greed are involved that something has to be put in place to to correct emerging problems or abuses because the people benefiting are obviously not going to be the ones to do it (witness the current jailed legislators and their pensions).

How does the public not get their cut? Aren't I considered part of the public? If they put in the time, effort and money they should be able to sell them as anyone else should be able too. The government gets their cut it's called taxes.

 

No one is going to get rich selling perch no matter whether you are the catcher, fillet guy, seller or all of the above.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Chas0218

[Hookedup]

Errabbit it was by the pound as well.

I disagree Hookedup. I still keep all the perch I can for the freezer. I love having a nice stockpile of filets for visiting family etc. Priorities change, monetary situations change.

Perch are worth the most per lb this year then I have ever seen. Didn't change my mind to keep the freezer as full as I can.

When you have a school teacher guiding a bunch of students in a direction you don't agree with, well it's important or more so to speak up. This is a representative of the state paid by tax dollars who is pushing a bull crap agenda and proselytizing his message with youngster's voices. It's pitiful.

You may love to eat them and that's great fill your freezer, no problem with that. But all those guys parked at Severne 7 days a week in the brutal weather sure as hell are not all doing it because they love fish. I could care less but let me pull one of them over for an expired trailer registration, and here them **** how their tax dollars pay my salary. I pay more in taxes then they make all year as they make money off fish while getting benefits from the state. That's a whole other issue and I'm in no way saying this is you. Sean

[Kingfisher06]

It is a privacy issue as well. It is really none of anyone's business why someone is doing what they do legally. If Warren Buffet wants to sell perch that's his own damn business. I couldn't agree more about the pathetic nature of someone on the dole complaining about tax woes or breaking the law, when in essence using the state as a strong man to reach in another's pocket. That is an entirely different issue then whats at hand. And you are assuming a lot making a statement about who you think is and is not on the dole.  

[Chas0218]

FWIW if you are making less than $9,499/year and under the age of 65 you don't need to file taxes.

[Hookedup]

I'm not assuming anything! I know who is at Severne that I'm talking about and they have had a free pass for years. I didn't call you out don't slip one in at the end.

[hermit]

It is really none of anyone's business why someone is doing what they do legally.

The problem I personally (and I think many others) have with it is that some of them are not doing it legally. Mostly by keeping more than 50 a day.

That's like guys taking extra deer or turkeys. Everyone always thinks "if I take an extra turkey it's only one and doesn't make a difference"... but if hundreds or thousands of guys across the state do it, it may be an issue.

(Edited in and then out a tangent topic.)

Edited March 9, 2016 by hermit

[Chas0218]

The problem I personally (and I think many others) have with it is that some of them are not doing it legally. Mostly by keeping more than 50 a day.

That's like guys taking extra deer or turkeys. Everyone always thinks "if I take an extra turkey it's only one and doesn't make a difference"... but if hundreds or thousands of guys across the state do it, it may be an issue.

No limit in Jefferson county. I agree where there is a creel limit they shouldn't be keeping more than that. Chaumont was mentioned.

 

I know of 20 maybe 30 people in the bay that sell fish on a regular basis. Out of those say 10 that do it regularly and I know majority don't manage more than 10lbs. or 20lbs. per day. That is 20 or 40 fish still under the legal limit in all other counties.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Chas0218

[Kingfisher06]

I'm not assuming anything! I know who is at Severne that I'm talking about and they have had a free pass for years. I didn't call you out don't slip one in at the end.

Alright, sorry, it's just odd to me that you are aware of such things, seemed like an assumption, that's all.

[Hookedup]

Alright, sorry, it's just odd to me that you are aware of such things, seemed like an assumption, that's all.

No problem you don't know me and wouldn't know I've worked that area for 15 years. Just like any sport you have some great guys and others that are turds that will get over on anyone they can. Sean

[Kingfisher06]

The problem I personally (and I think many others) have with it is that some of them are not doing it legally. Mostly by keeping more than 50 a day.

That's like guys taking extra deer or turkeys. Everyone always thinks "if I take an extra turkey it's only one and doesn't make a difference"... but if hundreds or thousands of guys across the state do it, it may be an issue.

(Edited in and then out a tangent topic.)

Agreed that folks shouldn't break the law.

I disagree that the level of hook and line fishing could fall under "tragedy of commons" theory. Now if there was netters, that theory could be applicable.

[ERABBIT]

At the request of a few on this forum we dicided it was time to put this out to all. We have a high school elective science class that is doing a whole class project on the selling of fish in NYS by hook and line. We often hear that young people are not engaged enough in other than electronics. For various reasons we chose to look into the selling of fish and potential ban. Class has numerious power point type projects, youtube video and soon to release online petition. They have met with DEC fish biologist and will soon be meeting with a local state representative who we hope will be sponsoring a bill to ban sale of fish caught by sporting license. Don't hear of that too often. Many of the reasons have been hashed out on forums like this and others. Our students feel they have a sound grasp of the situation, and yes they have read threads on here. They understand that some have great wisdom and insight to our fisheries. Obviiously those that sell and those that buy will disagree, but these students are also creating counters to many of the reasons why some still chose to want to sell. Could go on, but we all know the story, now it is up to all of us. Need to contact DEC and local legislators and make this a forefront issue. These students have laid the ground work through your concerns. I may take pic of their resolution and post.Thanks to Les and others for their wisdom, which I will take over underwater video cameas any day. There are truly plenty out there who care more about long term effects before sort term satisfactions. Some thought that snagging and lining fish was awsome and hid under the guise that it was legal. When that was banned some thought it would destroy the local economy. Guess no one fishes the Salmon River since that took affect. Assume this ban will have same affect.

 

Are they also looking at the buying end. From what has been posted on here looks like a off the books deal.

DEC says I can do it with a fishing licences only 50/day.

 How is that regulated ? 

Like said above if someone want to take 50/day for the freezer good for them.

If someone wants to sell 50/day for what ever reason good for them.

If a group of kids from ANY school is gathering information that would back the reason to change a law...... WAY awesome...... think that great.

 

Just saying here if I was into making money on the sale of fish more than likely( I hope ) I would play by the rules. Then if things got real tight for me and when I was selling them no one did anything to document that I just sold 50 to them what would stop me from getting 50 more ?????

I just think that is more of a issue but its what I think with nothing to back it.

Fishing the finger lakes during the week is fun. Fishing the weekend is not so bad just a little more hectic at the launch.Fishing during a derby where $$$ is involved is some times crazy !!!! The craziness is just a few !!!!! 

[hermit]

Agreed that folks shouldn't break the law.

I disagree that the level of hook and line fishing could fall under "tragedy of commons" theory. Now if there was netters, that theory could be applicable.

I don't know enough to say which is why I took that link out and said it "may" be an issue. It's possible it makes a difference, also possible it doesn't. I'm a casual perch guy at best but I do know they are prolific breeders and wiping them out completely would be very difficult even if we all tried.

Also I guess that's why this conversation is taking place. Nobody knows what the impact currently is. It's so hard to tell with all the recent changes in the lakes, the mussels, fleas, etc, that some guys might find their old spots and ways don't work any more and then say "the fish are gone!" when in reality they're just 10 feet deeper or eating something else. But it's been interesting reading everyone's opinions.

[Kingfisher06]

I wouldn't say it was off the books. Harvey kept records of each purchase and you had to sign your name with each sale on his record sheet. You'd get a receipt and he had a duplicate. It's been a long time since I sold perch, things are coming back to me, sorry for the parceled out response Errabbit.

 

I disagree Errabit, I don't think rallying students to lobby for a law change around a teacher's belief is Way Awesome. Should the process of participating in Govt be taught, of course, but this just stinks of manipulation.     

[Kingfisher06]

I don't know enough to say which is why I took that link out and said it "may" be an issue. It's possible it makes a difference, also possible it doesn't. I'm a casual perch guy at best but I do know they are prolific breeders and wiping them out completely would be very difficult even if we all tried.

Also I guess that's why this conversation is taking place. Nobody knows what the impact currently is. It's so hard to tell with all the recent changes in the lakes, the mussels, fleas, etc, that some guys might find their old spots and ways don't work any more and then say "the fish are gone!" when in reality they're just 10 feet deeper or eating something else. But it's been interesting reading everyone's opinions.

Each year NYSDEC does a Lake Ontario survey, mostly gill netting I believe. The eastern basin perch numbers are stable and doing their normal fluctuations. I don't know about Finger Lakes data. I truly believe this push to outlaw commercial hook and line is purely driven by emotions. It's absurd. Regulating based on emotions and selling that emotion through a child's voice is disingenuous at best.   

[ERABBIT]

I wouldn't say it was off the books. Harvey kept records of each purchase and you had to sign your name with each sale on his record sheet. You'd get a receipt and he had a duplicate. It's been a long time since I sold perch, things are coming back to me, sorry for the parceled out response Errabbit.

 

I disagree Errabit, I don't think rallying students to lobby for a law change around a teacher's belief is Way Awesome. Should the process of participating in Govt be taught, of course, but this just stinks of manipulation.

Good to hear about record keeping.

What is wrong with them following a issue with a law and collecting info to back it?

Heck until you see what they have you are doing the same thing you accused other of in this thread.

[Kingfisher06]

Good to hear about record keeping.

What is wrong with them following a issue with a law and collecting info to back it?

Heck until you see what they have you are doing the same thing you accused other of in this thread.

They are not following an issue, they are lobbying to outlaw something legal. I don't think it is a teacher's place to do that. School children are heavily influenced by teachers. They are vulnerable, it should be a study of two sides, unbiased and left at that. a lesson on civics and it's process. A classroom exercise.

 

I've already said: show me some concrete peer reviewed studies that go beyond correlation, that show causation that hook and line commercial fishing  is unsustainable in these waters and I will gladly concede that issue. I see the teacher signed in several times, post something, other than a teary eyed child holding an empty pail.  

[ERABBIT]

They are not following an issue, they are lobbying to outlaw something legal. I don't think it is a teacher's place to do that. School children are heavily influenced by teachers. They are vulnerable, it should be a study of two sides, unbiased and left at that. a lesson on civics and it's process. A classroom exercise.

 

I've already said: show me some concrete peer reviewed studies that go beyond correlation, that show causation that hook and line commercial fishing  is unsustainable in these waters and I will gladly concede that issue. I see the teacher signed in several times, post something, other than a teary eyed child holding an empty pail.  

The first part to change a law that is legal now I have no problem with like I said good for them IF done right.

The second part of your reply I did not see that on here must have been what Alec deleted..... 

anyway if the teacher in charge of this signed it several times and is using a picture of a teary eyed child with a empty pail as proof ...... I'm with you total BS and something should be done with that teacher.

[justtracytrolling]

I see both sides still. Waiting for an answer... Whether my license is obtained legally to charter or Joe smoes licenses were obtained legally, why can't he sell them? I pay for bottles water? I pay for city water? I pay for natural gas? I'm trying to see both sides here. Honestly. As an outsider looking in, the decline in perch, isn't it possible for one moment, that zebras, quagas or even gobies can be to blame as well over the past fifty years? I just want documented facts... Not opinions.. Sorry. I just wanna see the picture as a whole..

Sent from my XT1080 using Lake Ontario United mobile app

I see a huge difference between a charter license/guide license and a recreational fishing license. As far as documented facts go it seems prudent that they should suspend the sale of perch in waters where its seems there is a problem with the population. Dont wait till the fishery crashes. Commercial fishing isnt a free for all...it is highly regulated and its common to have a fishery shut down temporarily. This isnt about changing a way of life its about conservation so a way of life continues. Yeah i get everyone thinks there is too many regulations already...me too...but when you go into a for profit business situation there has to be regulations beyond supply and demand....

[Kingfisher06]

The first part to change a law that is legal now I have no problem with like I said good for them IF done right.

The second part of your reply I did not see that on here must have been what Alec deleted..... 

anyway if the teacher in charge of this signed it several times and is using a picture of a teary eyed child with a empty pail as proof ...... I'm with you total BS and something should be done with that teacher.

Youre confused with what I said, but whatever, lol I think I've made my point here, some will not get it, some will disagree, and this horse is beat...