Sale of FIsh

[Frogger]

I wish I could prove a theory Les with what we found with the bottom changing drastically on the edge of the hole. Something really had to change or happen catastrophic like to do that. Just wonder if it leeched sodium levels into the lake from salt mines. Far fetched I know. But it's thrown my trolling patterns way off on how we fished that ledge. Sorry to get off topic.

[FishingTheFL]

Its to easy to argue that environmental factors contribute more damage then over fishing, which I believe is the true issue. Deny Deny Deny just like global warming...

[Sk8man]

I agree that it is a very significant part Mike but I also think that the combination of these environmental habitat related factors along with increased fishing pressure, improved technology (e.g use of cameras, GPS etc.) over harvesting of spawning or ripe egged females year after year, taking very undersized fish, heavy fishing in contained vulnerable areas (e.g. marinas where pre-spawning or spawning can take place) and the selling of perch combine to deteriorate the populations of perch and it is very noticeable that this is happening when you take into account the various cycles seen over the course of more than 60 years, the condition of the traditional spots fished (especially the mussel shell strewn bottom where nothing else is visible and their status today.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Sk8man

[GAMBLER]

I often wonder if the internet has caused more damage to fisheries than commercial fishing.......  I can remember ice fishing lakers on Canadice Lake on a weekday with no one around.  Man has that changed!  Good reports on the internet have sent me driving to new lakes looking for the hot bite.  There is not much of a learning curve anymore.  People can read up, go to the lake and pound the fish. 

[315angler]

All this anecdotal, emotional appeal does not help your case, period.

Is what this king guy says as he paints a picture of the guy who's too proud too collect unemployment so he is fishing or the poor guy just grinding it out to feed his family.

I dgaf if people sell fish or don't you're just over the top w the stories, ignoring the dudes who do it bc they are greedy and don't follow the rules and ruin it for the few good people doin it right

[Kingfisher06]

All this anecdotal, emotional appeal does not help your case, period.

Is what this king guy says as he paints a picture of the guy who's too proud too collect unemployment so he is fishing or the poor guy just grinding it out to feed his family.

I dgaf if people sell fish or don't you're just over the top w the stories, ignoring the dudes who do it bc they are greedy and don't follow the rules and ruin it for the few good people doin it right

I'm not going to invade the privacy of the folks who make bucks to keep the lights on during the winter or who just sell for the fun of it to keep their excursions feasible and post their names and numbers to keep this from being anecdotal on my end. If you don't see enough of that from a few folks who've accounted that on just this thread, then read harder.

 

There are always going to be some bad eggs. Just like the Sandy Hook incident that spurned the Safe Act. You cannot regulate the lone wolf retard. Has the Safe Act stopped gun violence in NY or just issued more tickets? Have the strictest gun laws that are in nation in Chicago curtailed gun murders? Do you think outlawing activities where the vast majority exercises lawfully works? Or does it just give the state more power?

 

Has the Patriot Act kept you safer or allowed your rights to be infringed? You dont ever give up your rights or privileges, ever. Now I know, you'll say what does that have to do with hook and line fishing. But I plead with you all to present solid info that that is the causation to perch declines before you take away a way a good way of life. For crap's sake, a guy who tries to catch fish inland to make a buck is a dying art, not profession. Attack the state for allowing crap land use practices, subsidies that promote it.    

 

Get to the base of the problem and you will see it is a massive promotion of the state for the few to profit or have power. Anyone who roots for the state to fix their state issued grievance is rattling the cage the state put them in the first place. You can be a sheep who yells at the sheep to keep in order and yell to the collie that there is a straggler, or you can be bighorn who busts a hole in the fence and butts heads for freedom.  

 

I'm all for scientific based evidence to ensure we practice our efforts properly. Hell, I am a biologist who works and makes policy within this state. I went to school for a long time and I hunt and fish and have a burgeoning family who wishes to see the resources exist for a long time for the traditions i hold dear to endure. I won't see emotional re activity trump science or tradition. It's B>S    

Edited March 13, 2016 by Kingfisher06

[justtracytrolling]

If you want studies and proof you will have to wait for the fishery to crash. A proactive plan is needed...does that mean i feel the sale of perch is the main problem...no...there are several issues and they all need to be addressed. You cant have no regulations and sell fish...long term sustainable fishing will involve regulations...period. I dont mind the sale of fish...just not on a recreational license. As routinely mentioned on this forum the violations on recreational fishing are a slap on the wrist. Charters, guides, and commercial fishermen have a lot more to lose if they choose not to follow the rules and get caught.

[Kingfisher06]

If you want studies and proof you will have to wait for the fishery to crash. A proactive plan is needed...does that mean i feel the sale of perch is the main problem...no...there are several issues and they all need to be addressed. You cant have no regulations and sell fish...long term sustainable fishing will involve regulations...period. I dont mind the sale of fish...just not on a recreational license. As routinely mentioned on this forum the violations on recreational fishing are a slap on the wrist. Charters, guides, and commercial fishermen have a lot more to lose if they choose not to follow the rules and get caught.

Sorry, but you don't need a fishery to crash to monitor fish populations. Where do you come up with this stuff? A proactive plan is understanding baseline data for a body of water over time and like I said earlier, get out to the University's and State to support such science. Don't fear monger with words like 'crash' to rally up emotional support. Like was said before, ad nauseam, selling and buying of fish is regulated and inspected routinely. Good grief. And yes, finally, your last sentence makes sense, the guys who buy and sell fish are incentivized to follow the rules. Holy Moses.   

[Sk8man]

"selling and buying of fish is regulated and inspected routinely." Total BS as is the rest. Restaurants are inspected generally but there isn't a specific inspection process for the perch and it would be "happenstance" if they happened to be inspecting when perch were present. There is no inspection regarding sanitary handling of perch where the fillets are cut before selling by the fisherman either.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Sk8man

[lakebound88]

Isn't most fish sold live weight?(perch) as I'm not filleted yet?

Sent from my XT1080 using Lake Ontario United mobile app

[Kingfisher06]

"selling and buying of fish is regulated and inspected routinely." Total BS as is the rest. Restaurants are inspected generally but there isn't a specific inspection process for the perch and it would be "happenstance" if they happened to be inspecting when perch were present. There is no inspection regarding sanitary handling of perch where the fillets are cut before selling by the fisherman either.

Where I sold perch they were inspected. The routine is like restaurants, a type of surprise we are here to look around for violations. It wasn't a scheduled routine (routine was a poor choice of words), because that would defeat the purpose. The place where I sold did cut filets for restaurants so, yes there is a inspection.

[Kingfisher06]

Isn't most fish sold live weight?(perch) as I'm not filleted yet?

Sent from my XT1080 using Lake Ontario United mobile app

Yes, (most, not all) from my experience.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Kingfisher06

[justtracytrolling]

Well KING you know it all and I think ill take your well thought out replies to heart and start waiting for universities and the state to figure out the science so that a management plan is developed....wont be a huge deal as those two entities are probably well on there way to figuring it out. We should all prob catch as many as possible in the mean time while we await change.

Sk8man

Dont worry KING and his fellow state biologists will be starting a massive scientific study of Seneca perch issues and we dont need to rally support for the perch any longer....and he says dont worry because recreational fishermen know what they doing its tradition.

[Kingfisher06]

Well KING you know it all and I think ill take your well thought out replies to heart and start waiting for universities and the state to figure out the science so that a management plan is developed....wont be a huge deal as those two entities are probably well on there way to figuring it out. We should all prob catch as many as possible in the mean time while we await change.

Sk8man

Dont worry KING and his fellow state biologists will be starting a massive scientific study of Seneca perch issues and we dont need to rally support for the perch any longer....and he says dont worry because recreational fishermen know what they doing its tradition.

I'm not claiming to know it all. I can look at the data that exists for the eastern basin of Ontario and understand the perch population is stable. I can read a scientific report from years ago that showed causation from cormorant predation on yearling perch, subsequent egg oiling efforts allowing a rebound in that age class. I can rally around good data. Rather than call for a statewide ban on hook and line selling, why not rally for Seneca Lake science projects?   

[BSmaster]

I can get behind a statewide plan to reduce commorant population.  I'm in 100% on this one. 

 

If you want to reduce some lakes from 50 to 30, I can be convinced.  But still nothing else resonates with me.  Something more complex but not excluding the selling of fish. 

 

Dismissing this notion that there isn't a problem is not correct either,  The perch fishery in Conesus is an example of how things went away and therefore it is easy to see how some of the elder statesmen can feel anxiety over the changes in Seneca.  The sheer colume of people who fish for perch should be able to get the states attention regarding this.  I still do not think they are going to do anything.

[Kevin J Legg]

Wow what a hot topic. Responses sound a bit like a Trump rally. As sportsman we need to work together for the good of our resources. As a retired biology teacher I find the student's project a very interesting avenue for them to become involved with conservation issues. Hopefully they are using scientific data in their decision making.

We all know what market hunting did to animal populations. People do get greedy when $ is involved and also get very efficient at harvesting which can lead to problems. If commercial fishing is to continue we need to keep a very close eye on fish population and be able to regulate their harvest if populations begin to wane.

Living in Jefferson County I am well aware of the commercial fishery and, yes, have occasionally sold some fish. I believe it is important that the DEC do an ongoing study of those fish that can be sold as populations can change fairly rapidly.

I truly believe we all want to see fish populations remain at sustainable levels and if we work together and use good data in decision making my grandkids and future generations will be able to enjoy what is such an important part of my life and many others.

[perchjerk.jb]

Check out what you say skate..Yes there is inspection at the processor and yes the restaurant has to have the name of the place they bought the fish from. And yes the processor does have guidelines to follow concerning sanitary handling of fish.I'm trying to figure out why people think they can report things without any knowledge....so answer me where the bs is

Sent from my HUAWEI H892L using Tapatalk

[Sk8man]

Look I'm talking about individual sellers catching perch some of whom fillet them before sale, and then delivering them to local or mom and pop restaurants in our area -not through some processor or formal arrangement allowing for inspection. The sale of the perch is only one item or factor in the current situation and in contrast to the invasives and water quality  etc.  is something that lends itself to changing. My main problem here is the denigration of the teacher and students by claiming they are "indoctrinated" or brainwashed when they put together an informational proposal and suggesting  that they have no basis for their opinions.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Sk8man

[reeleyz]

I have been following this topic for a while. I think you guys are actually handling this well. This topic tends to go down the toilet fast on other forums.

When you start making regulations that take money out of people's pockets they get angry and defensive. That is understandable.

My 2 cents is to reduce the limit to 25 and still allow the sale of perch. It doesn't have to be state wide. They reduced the limit to 25 on Canadarago Lake. Not that it helped the fishing from what I read.

[Kingfisher06]

Wow what a hot topic. Responses sound a bit like a Trump rally. As sportsman we need to work together for the good of our resources. As a retired biology teacher I find the student's project a very interesting avenue for them to become involved with conservation issues. Hopefully they are using scientific data in their decision making.

We all know what market hunting did to animal populations. People do get greedy when $ is involved and also get very efficient at harvesting which can lead to problems. If commercial fishing is to continue we need to keep a very close eye on fish population and be able to regulate their harvest if populations begin to wane.

Living in Jefferson County I am well aware of the commercial fishery and, yes, have occasionally sold some fish. I believe it is important that the DEC do an ongoing study of those fish that can be sold as populations can change fairly rapidly.

I truly believe we all want to see fish populations remain at sustainable levels and if we work together and use good data in decision making my grandkids and future generations will be able to enjoy what is such an important part of my life and many others.

Kevin, the netters of past are a different story than the hook n line folks. I agree, for example, the market hunters in the Chesapeake with their punt guns put a hurting on waterfowl numbers. But, I see no difference between guides bringing out clients everyday of the season on the Chesapeake and the hook n line folks around here.  

 

As a retired teacher I am surprised you find no ethical issue with this rallying of students to propose a statewide ban on hook n line selling of fish. Didn't your students trust you to know your subject implicitly? Didn't your students wish to do well, which made them vulnerable to a curriculum. A curriculum with an agenda based upon opinion and not fact is not ethical in my book. There is obviously a debate here, albeit a lop-sided one, but I'd be a pissed parent if this were one of my kids. Banning activities based on emotion, straw men and perceive threats is a style of politics today. That is what they are learning. I've begged to be swayed. The OP claims to have lots of info. All I've seen is some old news about farming around Seneca  

[Kevin J Legg]

Kingfisher,

I spent 33 years in the classroom and also taught Hunter's safety, duck ID and trappers training during the school day! Some might say I was pushing an agenda on my students. I have not seen the curriculum of this course but as an educator I was constantly looking for ways to get my students involved. It appears that these students have spent significant time gathering information from DEC Biologists, fishing forums and plan to meet with local representatives. It doesn't appear to me that this topic was forced upon them by the teacher but was student generated. The fact that they are involved, using Power Point presentations, U tube videos and plan an online petition shows a great deal of work on their part. If they discover their proposed ban is not warranted so be it. It was still a great learning process. As I parent I would praise the teacher for getting the kids involve in this process. I may be wrong but I don't view this as rallying students concerning this issue but allowing them the opportunity to explore a controversial issue, gather and examine information and attempt to change something they think is wrong.

Personally I have some mixed feelings on this topic, specifically on the larger bays in Jefferson County which may be able to sustain this commercial fishing. I also am also aware that restaurant serve numerous perch dinners enjoyed by many living in this area. I have observed some heavy commercial pressure on the some smaller local lakes and also remember when crappies were allowed to be sold (at high prices) and the problems that presented. Again when money is involved some people get greedy and become very proficient.

This topic needs to be further studied and decisions made base on scientific data and not on opinion, emotion, or greed. It's up to us all to protect our great natural resources.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Kevin J Legg

[TileMan Dan]

Well said, Kevin.

[Frogger]

X2.........million......

[Sk8man]

Wonderfully stated Kevin :yes:

[Kingfisher06]

Kingfisher,

I spent 33 years in the classroom and also taught Hunter's safety, duck ID and trappers training during the school day! Some might say I was pushing an agenda on my students. I have not seen the curriculum of this course but as an educator I was constantly looking for ways to get my students involved. It appears that these students have spent significant time gathering information from DEC Biologists, fishing forums and plan to meet with local representatives. It doesn't appear to me that this topic was forced upon them by the teacher but was student generated. The fact that they are involved, using Power Point presentations, U tube videos and plan an online petition shows a great deal of work on their part. If they discover their proposed ban is not warranted so be it. It was still a great learning process. As I parent I would praise the teacher for getting the kids involve in this process. I may be wrong but I don't view this as rallying students concerning this issue but allowing them the opportunity to explore a controversial issue, gather and examine information and attempt to change something they think is wrong.

Personally I have some mixed feelings on this topic, specifically on the larger bays in Jefferson County which may be able to sustain this commercial fishing. I also am also aware that restaurant serve numerous perch dinners enjoyed by many living in this area. I have observed some heavy commercial pressure on the some smaller local lakes and also remember when crappies were allowed to be sold (at high prices) and the problems that presented. Again when money is involved some people get greedy and become very proficient.

This topic needs to be further studied and decisions made base on scientific data and not on opinion, emotion, or greed. It's up to us all to protect our great natural resources.

So Kevin, You'd have absolutely no issue with a bunch of students organized by one teacher to further the coverage of the Safe Act for example to include all semi-autos. A ban, not registration, where a forced buy-back would be initiated. All semi-autos, your Ruger 10/22, all hand guns, etc. A bunch of students who before this class never owned a firearm, or had ever really thought or been taught about the whole issue at hand? A whole group of students at the forefront of a petition to sway the public officials in the favor of the teachers agenda is ok with you? If that is ok, then I can sit back and understand you've taken a position, if it is not, then you are a hypocrite who is swayed by your individual interests and lack any type of deep ethical responsibility.