Is the Force with anyone?

[Steve.e]

Asking for a friend. Is there a Force outboard doctor in the house? His fires up, runs good at first, then guns it,OK for 1/2 mile then dies and won't start. 

[Fish_Sam]

I am the friend. It's a 1990 Force 150. Cold, it idles great and even runs great half / 3/4 throttle. At full throttle, its starts to lose RPM'S and eventually dies and will not restart for days.

Any Ideas???

Edited May 5, 2016 by Fish_Sam

[GAMBLER]

Sounds like a fuel issue.  Is it a built in tank?  Is your fuel tank vent clogged? 

[Fish_Sam]

Sounds like a fuel issue.  Is it a built in tank?  Is your fuel tank vent clogged? 

Built in tank...1990 Quantum Fish and ski boat

[ontherise]

Mine did that last weekend. I found the clamp that holds the gas line was loose.

[dukhnter8]

Might need carb cleaning, high speed jet might had crud in/on it.

[Chas0218]

Check all fittings form carbs to tank if any hoses are cracked/ dry rotted replace, it could be sucking air.

Blow into the filler neck with compressor or mouth and you should see fumes or feel air coming out vent if you can't see or feel anything coming out the vent then it is clogged.

 

If those don't remedy the problem it could be the fuel pump especially if it dies at full throttle. Try this. when you are running and it starts acting up have someone pump the primer bulb. If the boat runs fine or better while pumping then it is the fuel pump. If it isn't fuel pump it could be carbs need a rebuild.

[lakebound88]

Could also be a defective primer bulb under heavy fuel flow too. Have seen that before. Good luck.

Sent from my XT1080 using Lake Ontario United mobile app

[TrophySeeker]

Does the motor crank over easily when it won't start?

[GAMBLER]

Does your fuel system have a water separator on it?  I had an issue like this last year and it was due to the water separator filter being full of water.  When I got the RPM's up, it was sucking water out of the water separator into the carbs stalling out the motor. 

[Fish_Sam]

Does the motor crank over easily when it won't start?

A BIG NO on that . It actually acts as if the battery is dead. I did remove the plugs to see if it would crank and does so without the compression, but as soon as the plugs are reinstalled....hard to crank

[Fish_Sam]

 Try this. when you are running and it starts acting up have someone pump the primer bulb. If the boat runs fine or better while pumping then it is the fuel pump. If it isn't fuel pump it could be carbs need a rebuild.

 

 I will try this this weekend..Thanks

Edited May 6, 2016 by Fish_Sam

[TrophySeeker]

A BIG NO on that . It actually acts as if the battery is dead. I did remove the plugs to see if it would crank and does so without the compression, but as soon as the plugs are reinstalled....hard to crank

 

Ugh. I had the same problem with my Force. Those motors are very prone to piston coking. I had to have mine rebuilt. Probably not a good investment. I would try a compression check as a next step. Good luck.

[Fish_Sam]

So we looked at all of your suggestions yesterday  (thank you ) and also mickey moused, i mean rebuilt the starter and adjusted the floats on all three carbs. The bowls of the carbs were still filled with gas, is that normal after a week of sitting??

 

So on went the muffs and we turned the key........as usual. the motor fires right up on first crank in the driveway, go figure!! I will keep you posted once i put it back on the water and give it a "real" test. PS>>>>>does anybody have any suggestions on which starter to buy (brand??) there are dozens listed from $46-$200. All have eh reviews

[rolmops]

Before you buy a starter,check if the batteries are in good condition.

You may want to go to the I-Boats forums. They have a forum that is dedicated to Force engine troubles. Your problem is discussed there numerous times.

Do not be discouraged by the dim view that most people have about force engines. They can be fixed.

http://forums.iboats.com/forum/engine-repair-and-maintenance/force-chrysler-outboards

Edited May 8, 2016 by rolmops

[muskiedreams]

If it starts easily later after it sits for a while without charging the battery, it is most likely not a starter or battery problem. If you charged the battery and then it starts, it could be a weak battery but could also be the charging system in the motor not charging the battery. In that case, you need to check the voltage on the battery when the motor is running. It should read 13.5 to 15 volts. The voltage on the battery should read higher when the motor is running than when it is not running. If this isn't the case, the charging system will need to be troubleshot.

[TrophySeeker]

I would highly encourage a compression check before you spend money on anything else...

Sent from my SM-G935V using Lake Ontario United mobile app

[Fish_Sam]

Batteries are excellent, and compression is good on all 5 cylinders (don't know exact psi number, but a friend checked it with his gauge checked and said the compression was excellent. . I know the starter is failing due to me having it apart ....The brushes are shot and where brushes contact was "burnt looking". I cleaned the surface up and flipped brushes over. It was able to start motor, but the starter smoked a bunch.  

Edited May 8, 2016 by Fish_Sam

[Fish_Sam]

If it starts easily later after it sits for a while without charging the battery, it is most likely not a starter or battery problem. If you charged the battery and then it starts, it could be a weak battery but could also be the charging system in the motor not charging the battery. In that case, you need to check the voltage on the battery when the motor is running. It should read 13.5 to 15 volts. The voltage on the battery should read higher when the motor is running than when it is not running. If this isn't the case, the charging system will need to be troubleshot.

Reads a consistent 14 volts on the multi meter while running!

[muskiedreams]

Batteries are excellent, and compression is good on all 5 cylinders (don't know exact psi number, but a friend checked it with his gauge checked and said the compression was excellent. . I know the starter is failing due to me having it apart ....The brushes are shot and where brushes contact was "burnt looking". I cleaned the surface up and flipped brushes over. It was able to start motor, but the starter smoked a bunch.  

Are you saying that the brushes are worn way down? It may be normal for the commutator to have a black color where the brushes make contact (depending on how much carbon is in the brush compound) but if it doesn't have bad arc marks, it might be ok.

 

If you flipped the brushes over, they may be no longer making contact to the commutator over their entire surface and won't be able to provide full current. When brushes in a motor are changed, switched or flipped, they need to be "broken in" so they make full contact and therefore give maximum current to the armature of the motor. If they are not making full contact, there will be arcing and possibly some smoke and excess heat generated and the motor will not be able to provide full rated torque.

[jimalbert]

My father in law is the mechanic at our local marina and he always told me to never buy a force.  He said, do you know what FORCE stands for, I say no, he replies FU**ING OVER REPAINTED CHRYSLER ENGINE.  I almost fell off my chair.  The other thing I would suggest is as your driving down the lake and the problem occurs choke the engine if you can.  I would assume you have a control box that allows remote choking.  Just hold the key in.  If the engine dies down there shouldnt be a fuel supply issue.  If it revs up the most likely is something wrong with your fuel supply.

 

Jim

[rolmops]

My father in law is the mechanic at our local marina and he always told me to never buy a force.  He said, do you know what FORCE stands for, I say no, he replies FU**ING OVER REPAINTED CHRYSLER ENGINE.  I almost fell off my chair.  The other thing I would suggest is as your driving down the lake and the problem occurs choke the engine if you can.  I would assume you have a control box that allows remote choking.  Just hold the key in.  If the engine dies down there shouldnt be a fuel supply issue.  If it revs up the most likely is something wrong with your fuel supply.

 

Jim

I agree with your dad about the Force engines. But the trouble started when Mercury started toying with these very solid Chryslers. The Chryslers were and are still good engines. But I must admit that I have had bad dreams about being on Lake Ontario in a Bilgeliner with a Force engine

Edited May 11, 2016 by rolmops

[Steve.e]

Guys, this dude needs help with his motor. Let's keep it focused on that. He seems to have fixed the dying issue, now it has developed a knock that got progressively worse as he ran it wide open. He did try to remove the fly wheel the other day but busted a bolt. He fixed that but couldn't get the wheel off anyways. Sounds like a timing issue now. Any ideas?

[Chas0218]

If the knock is getting worse it sounds like he might have blown the motor. Does it knock at lower rpms?