Why can't I catch Mature Kings?

[garrymny]

I'm new to salmon fishing. I've been out about 10 times, and I am learning more every time I go out. I never got skunked yet, but I have never caught a mature King. I catch nice big steelhead sometimes, lots of small salmon 24" and under,  a couple that were about 10 lbs, but never a large 20 plus pounder. When I come into the ramp, folks have coolers of big 20-25 pounders. I wonder what I am doing wrong?

 

Here's my program:

 

2 downriggers- one at 50- 60 and one at 80-100. One has cut bait, one has Brads Superbait filled with tuna, both 36-48" behind a spindoctor or paddle. Usually about 20 feet behind the ball, because when I go longer they seem to tangle with my dipsys.

 

Big mast boards. I usually run 10 colors of lead core off one of them, with a flasher and a spoon.

 

One or 2 rods with Chinook divers. Set on the 2nd or 3 rd side hole, and running 150-200 feet of braid .

 

Boat speed I try to maintain 2.5 to 2.7 GPS speed over ground. I have no probe, nor can my marriage allow the purchase of one until my wife gets her new kitchen, and she forgets how much I have spent on this endeavor. I try to maintain 30 -45 degree angle on my rigger cables.

 

I troll NE, NW , N, S, E and west, but have no idea what direction is best relative to the wind direction. Should I got into the wind, against the wind, with the wind? does it matter? 

 

I have fished from 100 - 35- feet of water. Most of my luck has come around 125-250.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated'

 

Thanks,

 

Garry

 

 

[letsfish2day]

They will come...don't be afraid to Change things up. Some days a certain color produces everything...some days its a spoon bite the next it all meat or fly's... I bought a fish hawk and seen my production rise dramatically. Speeds a big thing especially with all the current that's out there...don't get discourage we were all where you are...they will come...just keep at it

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[rbonnell]

The big mature kings will come for thw ice water which is down around a 100 or more depending on what port you fish out of and remember the currents will change your lure speed the last time i was out my gps speed was at 2.7 but lures speed was at 1.9 on my fish hawk

[thumbburn]

Buy a probe and don tell the wife.....

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[charb]

At this time of year temp. seems to be the key, a couple years ago I did not have a temp. probe, a boat came in with fish that was out where I was. I talked to them and congrats them on there fish. They told me the down temp. as they had a probe. I went back out and started popping fish.

[Sk8man]

Buy a probe and don tell the wife.....

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   Keep experimenting. Don't get stuck in gear running the setups the same way all the time. Remember you may not be running as deep as you think  especially with the riggers because of the strong underwater currents etc. As far as your speed  vary it up and down as you go and keep an eye on it and when you do get one that could be the place to run at but also the currents vary throughout the lake and the water column so it is important to keep varying your speeds in the absence of a probe.  Keep changing out your lures colors sizes, types etc. until you strike gold   I'd keep at least a rigger down 100-125 all the time in the cooler water either with slider and spoons or flasher/spinney /fly. and although you'll probably encounter lakers  too the chinooks like the ice water as well so some of the marks you see suspended down deep may be them. Always keep your eye out for bait and fish iot hard around it. Often the big boys may be cruising outside your fishfinder cone so you may not see the ones that are active and roaming. Good luck and you'll quickly know when it isn't a little one on the other end and it isn't a laker

Edited July 24, 2016 by Sk8man

[rdebadts]

Deeper... That's where the big guys live. If you can find 50 or even 48 degree water that's best. Leadcore is probably just gonna catch steelies right now. 400+ copper, dipseys out 260-350, and riggers down 90-130 have been working well on the east side

[Sea-IV]

I just spent 3 days 10 plus hours a day on the lake and was non stop matures. Here is my program and it will depend on where your at. First off temperature is key. I have 2 riggers, 2 wire and a copper out.

1 rigger I put at thermal about 60-80 down with glow spoon early then UV spoon later

2 rigger is deep usually 110-140 glow spoon early then flasher/fly later

Both wires I usually run deep out 225 or better damn near dragging bottom with meat or a flasher fly and change them up from glows to greens and one always has meat on it

Then I run a chute copper which is a 300 early then a 400 later with spoons early and meat later. The later meat on copper has been taking my bigger kings so far my past trips out. But you need a temp sensor cause I have had to chase temp up and down with the winds kicking the lake up lately and have had multiple matures lately this year is the best I have seen out of the past few. Silver/greens bright UV's and various yellows have been my top producers.

[garrymny]

THANK YOU for all the advice. I have been going out of Olcott. The consensus seems to indicate I may not be fishing quite  deep enough with my deepest rigger only at 100, just once in a while, and only 180-200 feet of braid out on the dipsies. Yes, I know I need a probe, but I will have to just take the time to take temperature readings with my thermometer tied to a fishing line (DEPTHERM). 

[DoubleTrouble1]

Temperature is EVERYTHING!!! Imo

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[on the lam]

Temp is overrated. Fish the fish. You need the probe for speed more than temp, and a good FF.

[Missdemeanor]

I gotta side with Pete on this one....especially this time of the year.... I will put my chute rigger in some 44 degree water, but the other two are adjusted to work bait pods and marks. I will chase marks too.... everyday is different. It's knowing how to tweak your presentation to get your rigs to go.

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[on the lam]

I actually do the same thing Matt most of the time  dedicate one rigger to the ice water, then move the other two around to target the marks and bait. 

[K Gonefishin]

Drop your dipsys and run spin docs and flies with 22-25 inch leaders. 200-275 back. Put one in the deep rigger 80-110 down 8 back from the ball and leave it there all day

[King Slammin]

Temp is overrated. Fish the fish. You need the probe for speed more than temp, and a good FF.

I agree. Fish your marks. I can find thermocline by turning sensitivity way up on my fish finder, but that doesn't mean the fish will be in there. I always start my spread up high and bring it down as the day goes on. We did three matures in the first 30 minutes last time out and all came on the 35' and 45' riggers.

[garrymny]

Interesting. Good info. I will adjust my presentation. My fishfinder is a  lowrance elite 4 CHIRP. I set it for medium chirp and found it gives me a bigger cone of view than high chirp. We see bait balls usually (except saturday morning) and we see a few fish, not loads of them though and we've never seen a fish down more than 70 feet. 

[chinook266]

I fish out of Olcott a lot. Some advice, change your divers from braid to wire. Short leads off the ball, 10 ft for spin doctors, 20-25 ft for spoons. I very rarely send anything down 100 ft and I still get my share of matures. If you ever go out in the PM out of Olcott the green NBK spin doctor with crinkle green atomik seems to out produce every thing else for me.

[Yankee Troller]

Temp is overrated. Fish the fish. You need the probe for speed more than temp, and a good FF.

 

Best advice!

[BAZOOKAJOE]

Look for big marks and move your program around to where they are. Run your dipseys as far back as 200-350. Try flasher/flies on your down riggers with spoons cheated above them. The lead core with most likely be a steelhead catcher this time of year. Change your speed if your on fish and not catching. Sometimes a little slower or faster makes all the difference.

[PhlyanPan]

If someone is fishing near you and has a probe, see if they'll give you temp at a depth and down speed vs gps speed.  That will get you really close on temp and speed using your gps.  

[Silver Fox]

Temp is overrated. Fish the fish. You need the probe for speed more than temp, and a good FF.

Yup, my 2 biggest kings this year were in 68deg water. Caught many there this month. Some days they're in ice and some up higher.

One more thing, save the meat program for after you get comfortable with flasher flies and spoons. I catch fish on meat, but not nearly as many as most guys. This weekends tourney I stuck with flasher/fly and spoons. Did well.

Good luck

[garrymny]

When you say flashers do you mean 10 inch or 13" paddles? Or spin doctors,? I have some atomic flies I can try again but I never caught anything on them. I have caught fish on spoons, meat, and brad killer baits. I just ordered a fish hawk TD, so I can know what temps are below the boat.

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[Legacy]

Temp is overrated. Fish the fish. You need the probe for speed more than temp, and a good FF.

Yes yes yes and yes

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[Silver Fox]

8" spin doctor's. 24" to fly. Pick your brand. I have A-TOM-MIK, one other and my own I made. They all work. Btw, 2.4 or greater on gps/downspeed

[daker1979]

8" spin doctor's. 24" to fly. Pick your brand. I have A-TOM-MIK, one other and my own I made. They all work. Btw, 2.4 or greater on gps/downspeed

Yup, yours are a little long...24-27".   Also try running the paddles on the dipsey's.....somedays it's killer.... 

Edited July 26, 2016 by daker1979