Spoon Rigging Questions

[Todd in NY]

I am still very new to this trolling game, and I have a limited budget, and even less time. My son prefers bass fishing and my wife would rather camp on the boat on some inland lake like Cranberry. I have been out just three times this year on my own boat, and two other trips on a friend's boat. I have yet to catch a fish on my own boat and I have no idea if it is me, my setups or my bad luck.

I have 4 Penn manual riggers on my boat. I usually run just the two riggers on my transom because one has my Sub Troll on it. I also run two dipsy rods to the outside of the riggers. I usually run a flasher/fly on one dipsy and a flasher/spoon on my other dipsy.

When running spoons on the riggers, should I use a flasher on one rigger, both riggers with spoons or none of the riggers with spoons?

Depending on conditions I might run all four riggers and both dipsy rods together.

I use a leader (24-30" long) between my lure and the flasher. Each leader has a swivel on both ends. The only flashers I have are 8" flashers with e-chips from Pro Troll and MS, and a boat load of J plugs.

I set my lines out 5-15ft behind my releases. I don't have meat rigs and I don't have any plans to use meat rigs. I have a good assortment of spoons, flashers (no spin doctors), flies and stick baits. I even have some Hammerhead cowbells and spin-n-glows.

What advice can you give as far as when to use flashers, how many to run, and how much line should be between the lure and the release? Feel free to PM me if you prefer. I feel like I am doing a lot of things correctly, but I'm not getting results. I've been out on some charter boats and the captain's have been very helpful.

Thanks in advance!

Edited August 16, 2016 by Todd in NY

[Fat Trout]

I am still very new to this trolling game, and I have a limited budget, and even less time. My son prefers bass fishing and my wife would rather camp on the boat on some inland lake like Cranberry. I have been out just three times this year on my own boat, and two other trips on a friend's boat. I have yet to catch a fish on my own boat and I have no idea if it is me, my setups or my bad luck.

I have 4 Penn manual riggers on my boat. I usually run just the two riggers on my transom because one has my Sub Troll on it. I also run two dipsy rods to the outside of the riggers. I usually run a flasher/fly on one dipsy and a flasher/spoon on my other dipsy.

When running spoons on the riggers, should I use a flasher on one rigger, both riggers with spoons or none of the riggers with spoons?

Depending on conditions I might run all four riggers and both dipsy rods together.

I use a leader (24-30" long) between my lure and the flasher. Each leader has a swivel on both ends. The only flashers I have are 8" flashers with e-chips from Pro Troll and MS, and a boat load of J plugs.

I set my lines out 5-15ft behind my releases. I don't have meat rigs and I don't have any plans to use meat rigs. I have a good assortment of spoons, flashers (no spin doctors), flies and stick baits. I even have some Hammerhead cowbells and spin-n-glows.

What advice can you give as far as when to use flashers, how many to run, and how much line should be between the lure and the release? Feel free to PM me if you prefer. I feel like I am doing a lot of things correctly, but I'm not getting results. I've been out on some charter boats and the captain's have been very helpful.

Thanks in advance!

Water is crystal clear.   I'd recommend running further back to get away from the hardware.    50' is about my minimum for spoons.  For flasher rigs 15 is my minimum and 30-35 my max.   lots of variables but you aren't going to spook fish more by being away from the rigger cable & balls but you can spook 'em by being too close.  

[Todd in NY]

Water is crystal clear.   I'd recommend running further back to get away from the hardware.    50' is about my minimum for spoons.  For flasher rigs 15 is my minimum and 30-35 my max.   lots of variables but you aren't going to spook fish more by being away from the rigger cable & balls but you can spook 'em by being too close.

Thanks FT! I'm always hesitant to use longer leads between my bait and rigger weight due to tangles and a sometimes rippin current, but it makes sense. Do you run spoons without flashers all the time?

[moog5050]

I am only a weekend warrior.  We typically start with 4 riggers running spoons and a dipsy off each side running a spin doctor and fly (we are trying meat too this year).  The higher in the water column we are fishing, the longer the leads from  the weight - about 15ft when deep to 30-50ft when shallower.  We also position the middle riggers higher than the outside so that fish can swim over the lower riggers if they move to the outside of the boat.  Your leads on the flashers sound about right for a fly, but we usually run them closer to 20-24".  Obviously conditions and fish preferences on any day can vary.

 

I never run spoons with flashers, but I think some do and maybe I should try it.

 

Have you confirmed trolling speeds?  Perhaps you are running too fast or slow.

Edited August 16, 2016 by moog5050

[Todd in NY]

I am only a weekend warrior.  We typically start with 4 riggers running spoons and a dipsy off each side running a spin doctor and fly (we are trying meat too this year).  The higher in the water column we are fishing, the longer the leads from  the weight - about 15ft when deep to 30-50ft when shallower.  We also position the middle riggers higher than the outside so that fish can swim over the lower riggers if they move to the outside of the boat.  Your leads on the flashers sound about right for a fly, but we usually run them closer to 20-24".  Obviously conditions and fish preferences on any day can vary.

 

I never run spoons with flashers, but I think some do and maybe I should try it.

 

Have you confirmed trolling speeds?  Perhaps you are running too fast or slow.

 

Thanks for the info! Trolling speeds range from 1.8 to 2.8 on the Sub Troll. We change it up quite a bit to try to trigger a bite. We've had some light releases with nothing on the other end, and no drag going out. I've had a screamer on a dipsy that we fought for a couple minutes, but that fish bit completely through the fly leader between the hooks and we never got a glimpse of him.

[Fat Trout]

Thanks FT! I'm always hesitant to use longer leads between my bait and rigger weight due to tangles and a sometimes rippin current, but it makes sense. Do you run spoons without flashers all the time?

I never put a spoon behind a flasher....but you can.   People do....  I just never do.  Flashers are for flies and meat (for me).   To avoid tangles.  Keep the boat going straight when setting and be careful when putting flashers down into a spread.  In a 4 rigger spread I put flashers on the outside riggers.  On the 2 riggers on the same side with one set deeper than the other I try not to switch depths (passing one by the other) without pulling and resetting one.  Depends on your boat width but you see the idea.  

[moog5050]

Thanks for the info! Trolling speeds range from 1.8 to 2.8 on the Sub Troll. We change it up quite a bit to try to trigger a bite. We've had some light releases with nothing on the other end, and no drag going out. I've had a screamer on a dipsy that we fought for a couple minutes, but that fish bit completely through the fly leader between the hooks and we never got a glimpse of him.

We were having quite a few releases with nothing home. Someone suggested a tighter release and it seemed to help. But you do have to watch for the smaller fish that may not trigger the release. The tip will still bob.

[Firechief48]

I usually run FF deep, tighter to the ball with spoons stacked above them on longer leads. On my dipseys most of the time FF.

[BAZOOKAJOE]

Make sure you cinch your rigger rods tight to the ball. Pull on the line between the first eye of the rod and the reel...while reeling with the other hand. You want all that extra play out of the line. Try different depths too. The other day I had stuff from 60-150 feet down. This time of the year the Kings can be all over the depth spectrum.

[hard knox]

make sure to use floro leader about a rod length get ride of swivel at the spoon and use a good   snap  put the swivel between main line and the leader ..also fish the marks they should give you a good indication  of depth to run also if you getting knock offs your close to figuring out the bight very color a little or size as well as increase lead back from ball. once they  start to show you what they like try to reduplicate it with other rods to increase hook ups .when you hook up gps to spot and work it over often you will find a specific location that they are feeding at .also allways keep working your set up till you find what they want for example color ,size .action, depth,.speed. if you have bait and marks figure out the   good luck!

[LongLine]

Don't be afraid of speeding it up a little.  Just under three.  try a flasher/fly above a clean spoon on 1 rigg'r.  Hard to beat the ole black & silver.

 

Tom B.

(LongLine)

[Rich s]

Just ribbin and great question . Here is my perspective upon reading . Throw everything at them including the kitchen sink . If that don't work then throw in the towel . I have had the towel in hand many times but still haven't tossed it over yet and doubt I will . It's when that rod finally fires , it makes the cycle start all over about how to make it happen again

Rich

[Todd in NY]

Thanks for all the information and tips! Very much appreciated. I've never been afraid to ask the "stupid" questions or think outside the box. I worked as a first mate on several boats in the Gulf of Mexico for several years, boats from 43ft to 87ft long. But that was back in the 90's and it's a totally different game than the Great Lakes. Hoping to make it out this weekend. I know I'm close to getting it figured out. I just need more time on the water. This forum has been a huge source of information because we have a great bunch of members.

[Todd in NY]

Just ribbin and great question . Here is my perspective upon reading . Throw everything at them including the kitchen sink . If that don't work then throw in the towel . I have had the towel in hand many times but still haven't tossed it over yet and doubt I will . It's when that rod finally fires , it makes the cycle start all over about how to make it happen again

Rich

 

Yep, no towels allowed on my boat

[relentless]

You ain't doing it right if you ain't tanglin! Thats the only way to learn what not to do. 21" to 24" off an 8" flasher. Dipsy's lead, copper and meat catch fish for me. I wouldnt leave the dock with out my wire divers. If it wasn't for the fishhawk, I would leave the riggers home. Change direction and speed if nothing is going on. I can't tell you how many doubles we gave gotten when we hook up then drop the speed off to barely moving.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Lake Ontario United mobile app

[Todd in NY]

Thanks Relentless, and everyone else who replied. I'm taking good notes, and I appreciate the feedback!

My boat is in the shop for a tune-up and to replace the shift linkage/cable. I should be back on the lake later this week and I have lots to look forward to.

[lily]

Keep things simple don't over think what you are doing is my moto. I started trolling for lake trout back in the 80s with my grand father trolling copper with a victrolla on one side of the boat and a single down rigger on the other. It was pretty rare that we didn't limit out back then. 2 rods. After his passing I started fishing on my own and got my own down riggers and started fishing how everyone fishes now. With divers and down riggers. The only problem was I didn't know what I was doing. I just would throw the lines out and pray. After years of tangles and lost lures I finally started paying attention to details. Stupid to me things like blow back and things like that I started understanding. Speed and downrigger angle I paid attention to. I also figured out my divers and how to properly deploy them. I guess I am a minority but I do run spoons behind flashers on a regular basis and they do produce fish. I learned a lot from everyone who has helped me on this site. Find out what works for you on your boat and do that and you will catch fish. Good luck out there.

[lily]

If you want to see cool rigging videos watch on you tube salmon fishing the baltic sea. They fish out of zodiac boats with no rod limits. Amazing to watch.

[Todd in NY]

Keep things simple don't over think what you are doing is my moto. I started trolling for lake trout back in the 80s with my grand father trolling copper with a victrolla on one side of the boat and a single down rigger on the other. It was pretty rare that we didn't limit out back then. 2 rods. After his passing I started fishing on my own and got my own down riggers and started fishing how everyone fishes now. With divers and down riggers. The only problem was I didn't know what I was doing. I just would throw the lines out and pray. After years of tangles and lost lures I finally started paying attention to details. Stupid to me things like blow back and things like that I started understanding. Speed and downrigger angle I paid attention to. I also figured out my divers and how to properly deploy them. I guess I am a minority but I do run spoons behind flashers on a regular basis and they do produce fish. I learned a lot from everyone who has helped me on this site. Find out what works for you on your boat and do that and you will catch fish. Good luck out there.

 

Thanks for the info Lily. I like to keep it simple, no doubt. Usually it's just my 18 year old son and I fishing in our boat. When the lake isn't crowded we'll fish 2 riggers and 2 dipsy rods. When it gets more crowded we'll use four riggers and a dipsy rod off the center of the transom. This year has been all about getting the boat set up for next year. That includes electronics, tackle, and boat maintenance. I'll check out some of those Baltic Sea videos you mentioned. Good luck out there!

[lily]

No problem I understand the frustration that can come with the learning curves often times costly frustrations. For a simple spread that I think work best for me is the 2 down riggers out the back and the 2 divers off each side at a 1 or 2. Most days my divers out fish the riggers anyway. Riggers are alot to figure out and often times can be frustrating to use at times there are alot of variables to try to teach your self. Good luck. Fishing should start improving real soon. Hopefully it will boost your confidence.

[Todd in NY]

Lily, that 2 rigger and 2 dipsy set up is usually what I run too. The rigger on the right side of my transom has my Sub Troll on it. I lost my biggest fish this year on a dipsy. I never saw the fish because he chewed right through the brand new fly in front of the treble hook. He took over 150 feet of line before he finally broke off. That dipsy was only running about 40-50 feet deep, it was a few weeks ago. I'm fishing this Sunday. The shop replaced my entire shifter, throttle cable and shift cable so I can't wait to feel the new shift mechanism. Thanks again and best of luck out there!

[lily]

Good luck out there. I see in other posts you go to cranberry lake. I'm a ranger school graduate from Wanakena. Used to fish out in front of the school some but didn't have a boat to go out in to the lake.

[Todd in NY]

Yep, Cranberry has a nice boat launch. Even with water levels as low as they are, I have no problems launching my Bayliner 2160 there. Wanakena is in a great location for Ranger school. My son wants to attend Paul Smiths College and major in environmental science or something along those lines. He just started at JCC in Watertown today, but he earned enough college credits in high school that he only has to do 1 year plus a summer class to get his associates degree. The only way he can attend Paul's Smiths is if he gets enough scholarships and grants.

[Todd in NY]

We'll be camping on Cranberry in the boat this weekend. We bass fish from the boat there, and drop anchor in a bay for the night. It's better than being out in the woods somewhere, very peaceful.

[lily]

He can go to ranger school get his associates with a 1 + 1 and it's a SUNY school. A lot smaller class and they structure it alot more like a job. Almost impossible to get off track. I got my associates in forestry there. Nice because they graduate under 100 kids very close relationship with the teachers.