Legacy- 2016 Deer Season

[BigWilly]

How can a guy with 5 acres of land and 2 kids pass a 5 pt if he only had 2 days to hunt????

Mid west dudes owns 200 acers take that 200 here in new York and u got 8 different land owners and friends hunting it.

What do u think is going to happen with all the deer???

It's not rocket science.

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If you have 5 acres and 3 hunters that sounds dangerous. But if you mean kids and to feed them that's your choice As a hunter.

But it's all what you your self as a hunter wants to achieve.

And again it's only the hunters that can grow big bucks if they want them.

Deer have much larger home ranges then 5 acres in nys or even 200 acres for that matter.

Some places in the mid west on 200 acres might be a 190 of fields and 10 of woods.

Lol. That 10 acres of woods is loaded like shooting bucks in a bucket. Lol.

Ny is much more human populated then mid west states to.

We have a lot of woods in nys and plenty of places for deer to make it threw a season is all I am saying.

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Edited December 15, 2016 by BigWilly

[JakeyBaby]

Another little side note for my beliefs, comes down to education! The deer we hunt here in NY are by far alot smarter as far as hunter awareness goes! To kill a mature doe with a with a bow here is a task and a half, not to even mention a mature buck! Alot of the mid west States the pressure is MUCH lower and I'd bet a good percentage of the deer don't make much contact with humans through out a season more then a time or two. Our deer walk around looking up, which means harder to see let alone kill! So it's not that there not out there in good numbers, they just are to damn smart and beat us more times then not!

[BSmaster]

Antler restriction only guarantees older bucks in the herd.  The assumption many make is that an inferior rack is on a younger deer.  While this is often true the 1.5yr  8pt gets shot while the 6yr old 4pt walks.  Even if neither get shot who gets to breed?  The older deer with all the testosterone or the younger deer with the  nicer head gear?  These deer do not have mirrors -they do not reflect upon themselves as we do.  And which deer has/had potential?  I would sooner say to age the deer in the herd the best you can.  This is why I am going to try game cams this year to get a better picture of the herd.  Unfortunately, The hill I am on has that dam 4pt and it is hard enough to get him out in the open.  It is much better to ignore the head gear and age them and then look at the head gear and see if they need to be culled or allowed to walk onto the neighbor's property to get shot.  The state is loaded with a lot of ~ 150 acre parcels.  I like QDMA but I have talked with several people who hunt the same herd I do and they all have differing opinions and they all are legal. 

 

I was a biologist first and I have a biologist close friend who is a liberal tree hugging type.  That's right.  I am still capable of loving people who don't hold my same personal views.  Her opinion is a perfect rebuttal to hunter's conservation.  "Predators remove the weak members of the herd making it stronger.  Hunters remove the stronger members of the herder making it weaker."  QDMA does say that cull bucks are necessary although there is a lot skepticism to their overall effectiveness.

 

 Also, If my 70 year old mother wants to shoot a spike so be it.  I am glad she is still with me because that is what matters most.  I have not lost my youth memories of deer season and the importance of venison in the freezer growing up and what it meant for us kids and how it related to Christmas.  It was way more important to have something to eat than something to look at.  I have made a concentrated effort to make changes but I can list a whole lot of effort with little to no progress and I can outline why.  I am ok with letting 2nd year bucks walk by and eat tags at the end of the year but i think it is wrong for me to say to others that they have to do the same.  Instead of legislating (my wife thinks deer season is too long), educate and reiterate.  While there is still a generation of hunters out there that have no idea what management means there is a growing number of us who want something more.  If you start demanding you will start seeing push back.  Just educate.

 

I envy those of you that have everything in place and are reaping the benefits of it.  And if you are in that position, I can see why you want antler restrictions and shorter seasons etc...  I want more better too but much rather have some venison to pair with my walleye for dinner than hold out for something that for the most part is out of my control.  Congratulations to everybody who connected this year whether it was for the wall or for the freezer.  Education works - So Educate.

 

Bondouley, Deer drives are waning in popularity.  Big Willy, I love your scope pics.

 

Longspurs, Small acres efficiently managed and hunted properly can produce as long as "it is hunted properly".  Unfortunately my family as whole is a failure.

 

This thread is a great read.  I love everyone's opinions and criticism (constructive of course) and seeing the successes of the season. 

[bondouley]

Antler restriction only guarantees older bucks in the herd. The assumption many make is that an inferior rack is on a younger deer. While this is often true the 1.5yr 8pt gets shot while the 6yr old 4pt walks. Even if neither get shot who gets to breed? The older deer with all the testosterone or the younger deer with the nicer head gear? These deer do not have mirrors -they do not reflect upon themselves as we do. And which deer has/had potential? I would sooner say to age the deer in the herd the best you can. This is why I am going to try game cams this year to get a better picture of the herd. Unfortunately, The hill I am on has that dam 4pt and it is hard enough to get him out in the open. It is much better to ignore the head gear and age them and then look at the head gear and see if they need to be culled or allowed to walk onto the neighbor's property to get shot. The state is loaded with a lot of ~ 150 acre parcels. I like QDMA but I have talked with several people who hunt the same herd I do and they all have differing opinions and they all are legal.

I was a biologist first and I have a biologist close friend who is a liberal tree hugging type. That's right. I am still capable of loving people who don't hold my same personal views. Her opinion is a perfect rebuttal to hunter's conservation. "Predators remove the weak members of the herd making it stronger. Hunters remove the stronger members of the herder making it weaker." QDMA does say that cull bucks are necessary although there is a lot skepticism to their overall effectiveness.

Also, If my 70 year old mother wants to shoot a spike so be it. I am glad she is still with me because that is what matters most. I have not lost my youth memories of deer season and the importance of venison in the freezer growing up and what it meant for us kids and how it related to Christmas. It was way more important to have something to eat than something to look at. I have made a concentrated effort to make changes but I can list a whole lot of effort with little to no progress and I can outline why. I am ok with letting 2nd year bucks walk by and eat tags at the end of the year but i think it is wrong for me to say to others that they have to do the same. Instead of legislating (my wife thinks deer season is too long), educate and reiterate. While there is still a generation of hunters out there that have no idea what management means there is a growing number of us who want something more. If you start demanding you will start seeing push back. Just educate.

I envy those of you that have everything in place and are reaping the benefits of it. And if you are in that position, I can see why you want antler restrictions and shorter seasons etc... I want more better too but much rather have some venison to pair with my walleye for dinner than hold out for something that for the most part is out of my control. Congratulations to everybody who connected this year whether it was for the wall or for the freezer. Education works - So Educate.

Bondouley, Deer drives are waning in popularity. Big Willy, I love your scope pics.

Longspurs, Small acres efficiently managed and hunted properly can produce as long as "it is hunted properly". Unfortunately my family as whole is a failure.

This thread is a great read. I love everyone's opinions and criticism (constructive of course) and seeing the successes of the season.

I'm not sure where your hunting but in 8g and 8h at least the areaso I hunt deer drives are happening every weekend during gun season. They start driving 830 opening morning

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[BSmaster]

One more thing, these 3-5 acre lots that people own (live on) and they have woods or brush for most of the lot and there is no hunting because it is too close to the residence.  These are sanctuaries for many a deer and the deer have learned to utilize them when the woods are full of hunters.

[BigWilly]

Jake can't agree more. We prolly have some of the smartest deer in the country due to our 20 hunters per sq mile stat.

If 18 of those hunters passed small bucks could you only imagine.

And of course 2 guys tag out on small bucks and go home and sit on the couch the rest of the season !! Lol.

It's possible here to have bigger Bucks and more of them but it's honestly in all our hands only.

My tree stand in Kansas is 10' up and the deer don't look up.

Some of my Ny stands are 20' plus and they look up at me still. Lol.

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[bondouley]

I agree with the deer being smart. I had to move a treestand this year cause the lead doe in a group of 5 knew exactly where my treestands are and would simply slip through in the thicket. The first night I sat in the new stand that was just 30 yrds from my old stand I shot her. She came through the thicket like normal looking up at my other stand the whole time. Our deer are extremely smart

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[BSmaster]

I am in 8X mostly.  30 years ago everyone had a crew and every parcel was hit 2-3 times a day with a push.  We sit mostly now and have far fewer people in our hunting group.  I think all the neighbors do the same.  Those without cameras think the deer herd is hurting which is false.  They don't see as many because the deer have found the sanctuaries.

 

If you are in an area where drives are prevalent than I can see why you don't like it.  Crews tend to use brown and down in their approach to deer hunting.

[Silver Fox]

20 years ago all I'd see while driving were guys getting ready to do a push, including my group of 10ish. I personally only know of 2 groups that do it now. I'm sure in some areas it is done a bunch, but with hunter numbers down and hunters dieing off, it's not even remotely close to what it used to be.

As long as much of the land is split up my many more people than in the Midwest, well never get bucks like that on a consistent basis.

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[BigWilly]

Deer drives I'm no fan of.

To Often a lot of bad comes from them. Wounded deer and bullets flying past your friends at close distances or slamming in the tree next to guys. Or guys getting hurt.

I see way more deer sitting and they are in a relaxed state and give me a clean ethical good human shot. Rather then running and a couple guys unloading on them.

Only my opinion.

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[sectvchamps1113]

Agreed BigWilley I have been doing the same for fifteen years and have been fortunate to take 7 pope and young over that time. I am lucky as most of my neighbors do the same. Problem is a few still drop the first buck

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[BigWilly]

Agreed BigWilley I have been doing the same for fifteen years and have been fortunate to take 7 pope and young over that time. I am lucky as most of my neighbors do the same. Problem is a few still drop the first buck

Yea the guys with no patience or time tend to do that. Drop the first young buck.

That's why I am all about one buck tag cause then they should be done.

I am very aggravated at the moment as I just called a processor I used in bow season and was supposed to make me summer sausage and pepperoni sticks with the hind quarters from my bow deer. All to find out that they don't have my meat or finished product either.

They gave my meat away and then tried to offer me some off other guys deer and they would have my meat by Christmas. Mind you it was bow season and I was the first one to order smoked meat from them. They Never

Called me and still no meat.

So what meat would I get "fresh meat" they said. What a joke. From what a road kill??

Or a gut shot deer ?? Or someone else's deer?! My kids and wife were looking very very forward to this smoked meat !!!!!

Unreal.

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[JakeyBaby]

Exactly why I process my own! I don't trust what I'm getting back. That sucks man!

[BigWilly]

I am so so mad Rit now.

We all looked so forward to having it by thanksgiving like was promised.

Never again. I used these people for 20 years.

I am buying a new smoker tonight and will never have this problem again.

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Edited December 15, 2016 by BigWilly

[bondouley]

20 years ago all I'd see while driving were guys getting ready to do a push, including my group of 10ish. I personally only know of 2 groups that do it now. I'm sure in some areas it is done a bunch, but with hunter numbers down and hunters dieing off, it's not even remotely close to what it used to be.

As long as much of the land is split up my many more people than in the Midwest, well never get bucks like that on a consistent basis.

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agreed Scott deer drives as a whole are dying but unfortunately not in my areas yet.  This year at one of my spots i saw less driving than in years past but on the big farm i hunt all day both sat and sun drives are still happening.  I use to be a part of them in my early years but like others said very unsafe and many wounded deer.  

[BigWilly]

Now both processors I use have stolen deer meat from me.

Never again. Her is the last one who I used to bring beef cows and pigs to. Unreal.

http://www.thedailystar.com/news/local_news/dec-says-local-man-stole-sold-deer-meat/article_69075383-e503-5955-9c9b-76dd16aeadeb.html

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[bondouley]

Exactly why I process my own! I don't trust what I'm getting back. That sucks man!

!00 percent agree!  i have always processed my own deer starting with the very first deer i shot.  My day showed me how out of neccessity cause it was 60 degrees that day in 1997.    Now i basically have a butcher shop in my garage the only thing im missing is electric hanger and skinner.  I make all my own sausages, bacon swiss burgers and slim jims.  Im going to try peperoni this year also now that i have a full freezer.

[BigWilly]

I have done many of my own also and do prefer it.

But my time was limited with working and farming and did not have the extra time, so now I will never trust any processor ever again. And I will from now on kill my cows on the farm and have them processed on the farm along with deer and hogs!!

I hate crooks. I don't steal cause I don't want to be stole from. I Treat others like i want to be treated.

I guess you can't trust no one its sad.

http://www.thedailystar.com/news/local_news/dec-says-local-man-stole-sold-deer-meat/article_69075383-e503-5955-9c9b-76dd16aeadeb.html

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Edited December 15, 2016 by BigWilly

[Guppy35]

Our group of about 10 people hunt close to 500 acres of adjacent property.  Over the past 5 years we have stopped doing about 90% of the drives we used to do (for several reasons).  First off, now that rifles are legal and most hunters choose to use a rifle over a shotgun, it makes drives much more dangerous in my opinion.  Also, the neighbors that border our land still like to do drives, especially opening weekend.  So our new plan of attack is to get set up very early opening weekend and sit as long as we can.  With everybody driving the properties around us, the deer tend to filter onto our property where it is quiet and we get much easier and less dangerous shots at the deer we want.  It's almost as if our entire property becomes a sanctuary for gun season, especially opening weekend.

 

We do still do some drives, but instead of 10 people on a drive, we tend to do much smaller drives with 4 or 5 people instead.  Our property has a lot of natural funnels, and after owning the land for so many years you begin to figure out where the deer like to go when they are being pushed.  The two biggest bucks i have taken 130" 8 point and a 132" 8 point were both taken on small drives with 2 walkers and 2 sitters.

 

I do agree that antler restrictions would increase the average size of the bucks in NYS, but not everybody hunts for that reason.  There are a lot of people that hunt solely to feed their families, and they have every right to do that and not be criticized for it.  Antler restrictions should be decided on an individual basis, depending on your goals.  I wouldn't mind seeing the 1 buck per season though, whether it was with bow or gun.

[Sk8man]

I've been really enjoying this thread despite the fact that I gave up hunting years ago mainly so it didn't conflict with fishing (same reason I don't golf). A lot of good opinions expressed here as well as important ethical information for folks new to the game.

[BigWilly]

Guppy I agree with all you said.

But I think every hunter out there has a dream of shooting a

BIG BUCK some time in there life.

Meat hunters included.

I hunt for meat and a trophy and choose to pass small bucks I have 11 yrs in trail cam pics that can show what passing small bucks can do for a property !!

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[Xxx]

One more thing, these 3-5 acre lots that people own (live on) and they have woods or brush for most of the lot and there is no hunting because it is too close to the residence.  These are sanctuaries for many a deer and the deer have learned to utilize them when the woods are full of hunters.

This statement is so spot on it hurts!!! People think there ain't no F'n deer like there used to be this sucks, I'm hanging it up!! Don't hunt the big woods the deer ain't in them there woods!! LOL the deer looking up is so true I have experienced this myself. The Boy Scout camp by us used to allow hunting but you had to buy a pin and wear it to be legit. My first house used to border the scout camp so I had the rights to hunt without the pin, but $10.00 to the scouts and the caretaker made for better relationships, long story short we killed a lot of nice deer, but then the influx of NY city slickers ruined the hunting by just going on the land and all those guys/gals hunted from a stand. Well after a few years the deer walked around looking towards the sky, I actually watched a buck fall flat on his nose, not watching where he was walking. That's no shyt!! So the influence of humans hanging in trees totally changed the way deer go about there travels. Also these same people have feeders in their developments, so those clowns venture into the woods, and the deer venture into the developments!! They actually trade places, there not dumb, "the deer" the people are!! There are no gunshots going off in the development it's quiet in there, but one crack of a rifle and their headed to the safety of the houses. The deer in broad daylight lay in between houses during the day when those folks leave for work. The deer are so smart, I watched a lady come home open the garage door drive her car in came out with a coffee can shaking it and the deer come out of the instead of the woods, let's say the "vinyl" to eat like pets at the zoo. I used to hunt 200 yards off the property line on the backside of that development, which was way more than being out of a used dwelling, when that lady's garage door hit the concrete I knew it was game on they took the thickest path around the bottom side of a swamp hole right into my sight and a 30 yard shot with a bow, come gun season they came right up the road!! Long story short these deer are well educated. Gotta love the clown that sights his rifle in 15hrs before shooting hrs. Forget about the hollow behind my house there up in the development already just up the road from me. So ya they have come a long way in their ways of getting around us humans!! Thanks BS your spot on in the way deer elude people around here. They are here and learned to adapt to the safety of developments.

[BSmaster]

I think it is easy to let the 1.5 and to lesser extent even the 2.5 year olds but when you see a big 3.5yr old walk out it looks a lot bigger and that is why a lot of bucks don't mature to 4.5 or older. I saw Bill Gorman pass on a 4.5 12pt and I have no idea how he did it - it dwarfed the buck he took. I imagine next season we are going to see footage of that deer being taken. Trophy managent sounds great but I have seen Bill take cull bucks too because he was doing it for the herd. I like the idea of having mature deer all over and spikes and crotch horns are left alone. Getting to 5.5year old bucks being common place seems way over the horizon. I will stand up for the hunter's personal choice to harvest what they can legally but I want to share that I have been eating my buck tag most seasons trying to harvest mature deer. Some traditionalists don't like me hunting Doe but it fills the freezer and there are plenty of them where I am hunting.

Sean, You described us with small still hunting style later in the season. We have to wait for the members that shoot everything to quit hunting and for the deer to settle down again.

Edited December 15, 2016 by BSmaster

[EsoxAC3]

And your Regular season buck tag can be used as a doe tag in the late season.

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I had thought i read that in the past but was never 100% positive..... Good to know in the future. Though i hope that tag is punched most seasons[emoji51]

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Edited December 15, 2016 by EsoxAC3

[Guppy35]

Guppy I agree with all you said.

But I think every hunter out there has a dream of shooting a

BIG BUCK some time in there life.

Meat hunters included.

I hunt for meat and a trophy and choose to pass small bucks I have 11 yrs in trail cam pics that can show what passing small bucks can do for a property !!

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I definitely agree with you on what QDM can do.  We too started using trail cameras about 12 years ago and started practicing QDM shortly after that.  It really is amazing to see the growth that can occur if you let them go a few extra years.