triple on a 5 leader rig.

[Great Lakes Lure Maker]

What speed are u running these rigs? Is line twist a problem with weights like that? Blowback? Lot more questions on these things.

I run anywhere from 2-3 mph. I don't have any issues with line twist, with the exception of the round ones. If I want to drag bottom the round one will spin quite a bit, so I use the long weights with the fin. When fishing deep, 120 - 180 Blowback can be an issue, that's what the heavier weights are for. I like to make tight turns and prefer the rigs to be as " tight" as possible.

How do you join the Fingerlakes trolling club? Is there a tournament this weekend on Owasco? I know of the derby on Cayuga.

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There is a tournament on Owasco this sun. To become a member you have to go to a meeting, pay the annual membership dues and be voted in. The next meeting is the 14th. They are held at the Watkins Elks club on Rt 14 at 7pm. ( I believe the time is correct if not you might be early)

[Sk8man]

Dan- As far as line twist the 2-3 mph as Jason stated is safe with most lures but once you get over this (unless very heavy weights are used) certain lures such as evil Eyes, Sutton 88's with a fairly wide profile or even very small lures like Quick strike 11's may wrap their leaders around the main line rather than twisting on themselves if using a good quality ball bearing swivel. This is due in large part to the fact that the main line is too horizontal in the water (e.g. blow back). Many medium sized heavier weight spoons tolerate this situation better (e.g. spoons like Northern King or Pirate 28's for example). The composition of the rig line also is a factor (e.g. more likely with mono because of resistance less so with braid or wire).

Edited September 8, 2016 by Sk8man

[magill270]

Thank you for the information. I don't do Facebook and I wasn't really able to find much information on the web.

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[Great Lakes Lure Maker]

Les made a very good point. If I'm running at higher speed and running rigs off my planer boards, lure choice is important. For instance, if I make a tight turn at 2.5 - 2.7 mph, my outside planer rig is going quite a bit faster. I like to use heavier lures quite often. Casting weight such as 1/2 and 3/4 ounce. Great Lakes Lures makes a variety of these lures in the heavier weight intended for trolling.

Magil270, your welcome. If you find time to get on Facebook they have a page there that is kept updated.

[TileMan Dan]

With 10-12' spacing on the line how much separation do you estimate you have on lures when trolling?

[Sk8man]

One of the things to keep in mind with line spacing in the classic sense is the question of: "What if my motor konks out running all this stuff .....will the leaders get into one another? If you have leaders much longer than that spacing the answer is "probably"   Most guys don't run as tight as 10-12 ft between leaders more like 15 to 20 is more common. The reason I do it at 12 is so that I can for example run into much shallower water than usual (eg. 60-70 ft with 5 leaders) if I rig mine with the 12 ft intervals and I can also present the lures more like a small "school" of bait in the compressed column of water covered. This is mainly for rainbows in the top of the water column but it can also be used deep toward the bottom for lakers as well with short leaders for example.  In actuality I have had to stop in the water briefly on occasion and despite my leaders being 15-18 ft long with 12 ft. spacing they have not come together but again "briefly" is the key word.  If your speed is right the spoons should be running spaced close to what you have them spaced on the rig line and faster speed should throw them somewhat closer together while slowing will allow them to drop slightly and it depends quite a bit on the weight of the particular spoons as well. Thermoclining should not be confused with "precision trolling" in any case it is more like "straining" the water column in search of fish.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Sk8man

[TileMan Dan]

It is an interesting way to troll and cover a vertical plane.  We be doing more research on this before I give it a try. I see myself spending a lot of time dealing with tangles.  I'm sure I'll be picking your brain with more questions regarding this.  Thanks for info thus far.

[Sk8man]

You're welcome any time.

[Sk8man]

Jason hit on one of the most important things about all this stuff and that is that it can be a vehicle to make new friends and learn new things and share in the excitement of the sport as well as the learned information etc. All too often now days people are looking for spoon fed information and instant answers and solutions to their concerns or questions and it happens on LOU as well as elsewhere in life.  Those of us who have been around awhile have had to learn much of this information through trial and error experimenting over the span of many years and massive amounts of time doing it figuring out which things work well or as importantly "don't work" .  Many of the "old timers" I have known personally or have fished with for that matter have been very guarded with information and the general feeling has been something like " If I had to spend the time learning this stuff and putting my time in why the hell should I just give it away?" I have for many years shared that feeling but at this point in life I also feel that it is important to give back to the sport that I have loved and spent so much time learning about and enjoying along the way, and that time is very precious and if the learning curve can be accelerated for folks new to the fishing scene then I'm going to try to help them out. Does this mean I am willing to share specifics on fishing spots or particular things or techniques shared with me by friends and fellow fishermen in confidence: "no". In my view LOU is however a very special learning environment in which sharing and helping others get started or improve is  desirable and essential to the vitality and life span of the sport. I am especially encouraged by the generous sharing of useful information by a number of the charter guys both on Lake Ontario and the Finger Lakes and it says a lot about them as people as well as fishermen.  I think that LOU  and this sharing process has helped everyone involved in different but important ways.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Sk8man

[letsfish2day]

Dan - (Thermocline basics 101) The Seth Green or "thermocline" rig is a vertical presentation of multiple spoons on various length leaders Personal preference) rather than the horizontal one of an umbrella rig for starters so what you are trying to do is "stradle" the thermocline layer in the water column vertically as well as cover the area just above and below it with your lures so that you cover greater areas of the water column rather than immitating a small school of baitfish as in the case of the umbrella rig. There are various setups and methods of doing this and each has its strengths and weaknesses. The original setup was hand lined from a rowboat without the benefit of additional "gizmos" (e.g victrola units or boat rods etc.). A basic setup is a heavy duty fairly short rod with say a Penn 309 reel and either fairly heavy braid (e.g. 50 or 60 lb test) or stainless wire as a mainline and then a "rig line" is attached to it that is sectioned into say 12-25 foot intervals (depending on personal preference or what the target species may be) which may be composed of a different type of line usually mono (e.g.30 lb test Big Gamebut could be braid or even a section of main wire) and each of these intervals are attached to the main line using bead chains or barrel swivels one at a time until you have the desired length (in my case 120 ft total with 10 bead chains at 12 ft apart but they can also be setup as 6 bead chains for instance at 15, or20, or 25 ft etc.. The reason for 6 bead chains rather than the 5 for the maximum leaders allowed would be so that you can run it as a "jug" rig way behind the boat and the jug would be fastened on this last bead chain. I run mine with the 12 foot intervals (10 of them) because it allows me the flexibility of changing my setup to 24 ft intervals if I want to cover more of the water column and various "prospecting" setups as well. At the very end of the rig line is a heavy duty three way swivel which you attach a 24- 48 oz sinker to on a short mono drop line (about 24 inches long). (I use 20 lb test on it so if it gets hung on bottom it breaks loose and all I lose is the sinker). You make up leaders (I use 12 lb test fluoro) commonly anywhere from 12 ft long to 20 ft (or more for special situations) with a spring clip (see p[ic) at one end and a solid ring ball bearing swivel at the other end. Typically you clip on your first leader on the available connection on the three way swivel near where the mainline and sinker drop line are connected and start lowering the setup in the water. As you come to a bead chain in the rig line you keep adding leaders with your spoons on them (up to a total of 5 now permitted.....used to be "15 points" so folks could run that many with single hooks and we did[emoji38]). Once you reach the end of your rig line with the leaders on it you determine how deep you wish to go with the entire setup and let out more wire or braid and set your drag. Normally I run either three of these setups or 4 if I have others on board and water conditions permit. Two of them are run as "side rigs" in holders perpendicular to the gunwales in heavy duty rod holders and then two rods are run off the back with "jugs" (floats can be anything from duck decoys to empty milk jugs) attached to get them out in back of the boat and away from the other leaders. It takes a bit of practice and some careful thought to the setup to avoid potential tangles but in the past I ran a total of 62 lures through the water at once (counting 2 lures on my outriggers or boards and 15 on each setup). It can be a bit tricky "sliding" one rig by another with multiple fish on at the same time (e.g. especially large rainbows going in different directions[emoji38]). I take my leaders off one at a time until I get to the fish and roll them up on styrofoam squares but there are many other ways of doing it and some you don't actually take your leaders off (such as Jason's method).

The pic: From left to right -

bead chains one with clevice one without, three-way swivel with heavy duty snap, wire connector and package of them and 32 oz sinker (with Plastidip coating to prevent boat mark up as well as preventing lead contact with skin)

Ive never seen the wires with the beads on them...did you put them on or buy them that way...its good idea hard to see them sometimes especially with newbies reeling them in...

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[Sk8man]

I make my own wire clip connectors. The beads help especially inthe cold weather to grip the leaders and reduce the loss of spoons It is also a visual aid when your leaders are coming up.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Sk8man

[Hop]

Jason hit on one of the most important things about all this stuff and that is that it can be a vehicle to make new friends and learn new things and share in the excitement of the sport as well as the learned information etc. All to often now days people are looking for spoon fed information and instant answers and solutions to their concerns or questions and it happens on LOU as well as elsewhere in life. Those of us who have been around awhile have had to learn much of this information through trial and error experimenting over the span of many years and massive amounts of time doing it figuring out which things work well or as importantly "don't work" [emoji38]. Many of the "old timers" I have known personally or have fished with for that matter have been very guarded with information and the general feeling has been something like " If I had to spend the time learning this stuff and putting my time in why the hell should I just give it away?" I have for many years shared that feeling but at this point in life I also feel that it is important to give back to the sport that I have loved and spent so much time learning about and enjoying along the way, and that time is very precious and if the learning curve can be accelerated for folks new to the fishing scene then I'm going to try to help them out. Does this mean I am willing to share specifics on fishing spots or particular things or techniques shared with me by friends and fellow fishermen in confidence: "no". In my view LOU is however a very special learning environment in which sharing and helping others get started or improve is desirable and essential to the vitality and life span of the sport. I am especially encouraged by the generous sharing of useful information by a number of the charter guys both on Lake Ontario and the Finger Lakes and it says a lot about them as people as well as fishermen. I think that LOU and this sharing process has helped everyone involved in different but important ways.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[Adm Byrd]

You need to understand Sk8man and Hop have been doing this kind of fishing year round since the early to mid 1970's and see things going on watching their rod tips that we mere mortals will never grasp. Or it could be the entire days they spent out there when the rest of us decided to stay warm and dry.

[Iron Duke]

We should do a Seth Green Rig only tournament some off weekend next year between Lou members... Rigs only !! I'd be down for that for sure would be a lot of fun... I'll even let you guys pick the lake to keep it fare 😠lol... Just kidding of course

Mike

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Edited September 8, 2016 by Iron Duke

[Great Lakes Lure Maker]

You can count me in for that... Love to see that!

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[Great Lakes Lure Maker]

Can we make it interesting... Handling only? I don't care what lake, just during a time when rigs are effective.

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[Iron Duke]

Can we make it interesting... Handling only? I don't care what lake, just during a time when rigs are effective.

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Rigs are always effective....

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[Keep'n it Reel]

Will there be a no rig event??? Lol[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

[Iron Duke]

Will there be a no rig event??? Lol[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

Lol.. Joe we can have one of those between lou members also... We need to bring the Lou All back next year too

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[Keep'n it Reel]

Can't make that a no rig or all rig deal though that's a open day just no more than 20 lures is what we said last time

[Iron Duke]

Yeah I agree there but hey that's 3 tournament ideas for the LOU members .. I'm into have a few extra tourneys on Saturdays next year

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[Low Baller]

Great read, never stop learning new things. Reminds me of the old joke of why you pull copper. .......cause you can't push it......

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[Sk8man]

Thanks Bob and for lumping me in with the illustrious Hop   Hey you southenders    I think a LOU rig fest would be great fun and I'd be up for it

Edited September 9, 2016 by Sk8man

[Keep'n it Reel]

Southenders have robbed some big fish from the north end lol

[Great Lakes Lure Maker]

Joe, what is it you have against rigs? I put thousands into fishing leadcore and copper... Since im mostly a rig guy. Put your money up and see where the chips fall... What do you have to lose. By the way... Rigs are traditional to the fingerlakes. You will never get them excluded... Long row to hoe there my friend. Im with Mike, changes and Saturdays sound good to me. Lets see how "flexible" folks can be.

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