triple on a 5 leader rig.

[Great Lakes Lure Maker]

Rigs are always effective....

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Yes they are, but much more effective once the thermocline has set up.

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[Sk8man]

Yeah and Joe doesn't want to be lumped in with us ancient dinosaurs north or south....he's "new school"   Other than perhaps catching kings on Lake O rig fishing is my favorite activity and some of the most fun. Today however I'll settle for perch fishing....on my way....

Edited September 9, 2016 by Sk8man

[fisherdude]

rig fishing is the way i like to go for the finger lakes . i believe down riggers spoke fish at times. i don't even put the down rigger on the boat till i go to the big pond . i have run spin doctors , pro troll , cow bells , spoons all off seth green rods . every one has their way to fish bait,rigs down riggers pulling copper . guess what ever makes you happy , fun is the name of the game .  

Edited September 9, 2016 by fisherdude

[suttontroller94]

Name those tourney dates! Ill be there old school or new school. As individual tourneys or a mini series. For bragging rights or money! Sounds like a great time to show everyones versatility on these lakes!

[Hop]

Thanks Bob and for haveme in with the illustrious Hop   Hey you southenders    I think a LOU rig fest would be great fun and I'd be up for it

"Illustrious"??  Not sure what that means!  Is it a disease??  The only disease I have had long term is "ff"  (fishing fever)  Last few years it goes into remission around mid October, codicentially the same time bow season kicks in.  PS - count me in for a lou contest just for bragging rights. 

[Keep'n it Reel]

Joe, what is it you have against rigs? I put thousands into fishing leadcore and copper... Since im mostly a rig guy. Put your money up and see where the chips fall... What do you have to lose. By the way... Rigs are traditional to the fingerlakes. You will never get them excluded... Long row to hoe there my friend. Im with Mike, changes and Saturdays sound good to me. Lets see how "flexible" folks can be.

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i have nothing against rigs at all I choose not to run them I like individual rods one lure per placed at a particular spot in temp above temp bellow temp. I have all my coopers and cores segment so each rod has a particular place in the water column and Jason you know my father you know I can rig fish I just choose not to do so I'm very comfortable with my way of fish as I'm sure you are yours and I will give up those few extra lures to keep that comfort level. The most lures I have run durning club events is 11 and that's with 3 guys 9 rods,, free sliding cheaters on the riggers give me my 10th and 11th lure in the water... And I would give up riggers if I had to choose between divers and riggers I like pulling quad divers and long line coppers

[blueghost1]

ahhh, dads old seth green rigs....up in the garage ceiling collecting 20 years of cobwebs and dust   always wondered if we should put them to use again sometime. Does anyone run a "jug" anymore? Growing up we ran 2 off the boat and two way back on an antifreeze jug to keep them away from the other lines and the boat. Fish ALWAYS hit the bottom leader it seemed lol

[Nautitroller]

Love the old school ways, victrola with a twin minnow anyone? I'm just a rookie when it comes to trolling. I'm of the opinion that wider spreads in the zone you want produces quite good results. Can't wait for Owasco Sunday Didn't get out today, oh well . I'd be up for donating in any style fishing get together ya'll want to do.

[Nautitroller]

Love the old school ways, victrola with a twin minnow anyone? I'm just a rookie when it comes to trolling. I'm of the opinion that wider spreads in the zone you want produces quite good results. Can't wait for Owasco Sunday Didn't get out today, oh well . I'd be up for donating in any style fishing get together ya'll want to do.

[blueghost1]

pulled wire since I was old enough to Nautitroller. Used twin minnows, prefer the spoon. Jasons Great Lakes #4 is the way to go!

[Nautitroller]

Jason makes a great selection of spoons! No doubt!

[Great Lakes Lure Maker]

i have nothing against rigs at all I choose not to run them I like individual rods one lure per placed at a particular spot in temp above temp bellow temp. I have all my coopers and cores segment so each rod has a particular place in the water column and Jason you know my father you know I can rig fish I just choose not to do so I'm very comfortable with my way of fish as I'm sure you are yours and I will give up those few extra lures to keep that comfort level. The most lures I have run durning club events is 11 and that's with 3 guys 9 rods,, free sliding cheaters on the riggers give me my 10th and 11th lure in the water... And I would give up riggers if I had to choose between divers and riggers I like pulling quad divers and long line coppers

Yes, I'm sure you must have got plenty of experience with rigs. I have no doubt about that... We used to always keep 20 spoons in the water, but the last couple years we started adding coppers and cores and quite often don't even put rigs in, so we have gotten used to just 9 spoons. I will be fishing 2 rigs this weekend though. Good luck this weekend. Beware of the launch water level and don't use the launch closest to the marina. I saw boats getting stuck there last weekend.

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[Sk8man]

Jason makes a great selection of spoons! No doubt!

:yes:

[Keep'n it Reel]

I won't make it this weekend but good luck and thanks for the warning on water either way

[Sk8man]

You know Joe makes some real good points in his rationale for doing things te way he does and hopefully he understands my busting comments are just that because I respect his fishing abilities and share many of the same thoughts as as well despite my "old school nature" . In the interest of airing both sides of the issue of rig fishing vs. other more "modern" approaches here are some of the classic criticisms of rig fishing for those folks new to this issue:

 

1."you can't feel or fight the fish as well on those cumbersome heavy duty rods and lines" - To a degree it may be accurate as very small fish are sometimes carried along without it being readily apparent they are there but this is also true of downriggers and occasionally on dipseys. It may be more frequent on "jug lines" as they have a lot of inherent drag and the wave action sometimes disguises having a small fish on one of the leaders especially small lakers on the deepest leader.or when you run cowbells on it. Over the years I have modified my equipment markedly going from a large "wheel" on a wooden base in the old days where I rolled up everything including all the leaders and lures - to the use of heavy duty solid glass boat rods with a roller tip (to accomodate the ss wire main line) to the present day light duty roller rods that have a more flexible tip so that virtually every movement is detected by the rod tip  (e.g. lure action as well) and there is considerable bend to it while playing fish despite it being a relatively short rod (5 1/2 ft).  The reels are Penn 309's with the line guide mechanism removed so that the wire doesn't cut the brass composed in them. Some of my friends have switched to braid so that they can keep the line guide and perhaps cut through the water a bit better with their line(less "blowback"?). Several of these same type of rods serve as good dipsey wire rigs as well.

 

2.  Another common comment is "Rig fishing offers an unfair advantage to fishermen " - I would offer that anyone trying to hand line a leader with large rainbow or landlock or multiple fish would quickly see that although the number of leaders and spoons may seem like an advantage it can be just the opposite as well as there is much more to keep track of and the probabilities af tangles are higher when inexperienced especially. It reminds me of a comment made by a lady passerby at a launch ramp back in the 70's. I had a Heath Kit chart recorder in my little Whaler (which was one of the first of its kind at the time). She asked what that "machine" was and I told her that it marked fish on the chart paper with their corresponding depth. She acted all indignant and said "That is so unfair those poor fish don't have a chance"   The issue is similar just because you may  have multiple lures down there it doesn't "guarantee" fish either without the experience using the approach much as interpreting the marks on the depth finder doesn't guarantee you catch the fish either.

 

3. The term "meat rig" has been applied (often in a derogatory way) toward the Seth Green or thermocline rig - A major reason for this is that they can be very effective in catching a wide variety of fish and if lucky higher numbers than some other techniques because the lures frequent numerous depths at the same time and much of this is a function of "probabilities" as much as anything because you are basically placing your lures above the thermocline layer where often rainbows inhabit within the thermocline where bows, browns or lakers may be located and below it where often the colder water deep dwelling lakers stay. I love trolling of all types and especially wire dipseys and riggers  but if I had to depend on fish to eat for survival I would be pulling rigs, jerking copper or still fishing not using the more modern (and perhaps more exciting) techniques because over time they have a higher success rate overall.

 

I know this is a bit long winded but I thought it might be beneficial to new comers to give a little perspective.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Sk8man

[Great Lakes Lure Maker]

Very good break down Les. If rig fishing gave someone an UN fair advantage, I would be undisputed club champion year after year.... I am obviously not! I just love to fish rigs and I love to find newer and more productive ways to fish and apply them in a variety of situations. I will say that during times when weeds and fleas are bad, a rig can be much more tolerant. Not escaping , but less effected by them.

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[Great Lakes Lure Maker]

I'm sure Joe knows no disrespect was meant by yours or my comments and sometimes a conversation by text can be taken out of context when read. We are all good friends here and by no means are we out to put anyone down, and sometimes a well meant"joust" may seem to come off in the wrong way because its not a personal conversation. Something to keep in mind...

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[Keep'n it Reel]

Trust me fellas no disrespect was ever thought of I respect you for what you do and I also hope you return the same to me. We all put are time on the water and fish the way we want to fish no reason to change what we do just based on others opinions!! And Les i have heard many people say the same thing that you said rigs equal more lures more bites some days maybe somedays not I know on a good day of fishing it's nothing to do double digits fishing either any or all of the presentations I know I have personally seen 75-100 fish days. But correct me if I'm wrong with this one when you are targeting a specific column of water let's say 60-65ft has a good bite you are running 4 rigs with those 4 rigs it's easy to get 4 lures in that 5ft zone now you also have a lure above that zone or bellow that zone those lures may be getting bit or they maybe washing potentially 16 lures in a good to okay strike zone now the way i do my set ups take that same 5ft zone and I can and will pack all 9 to 11 lures in that 5ft zone in my eyes that's a slight advantage to having lures potentially in the strike zone! While offering different presentations as you know one day it's a good diver bite then maybe a rigger core or copper.

[Sk8man]

Joe I think earlier I mentioned that rig fishing is not "precision trolling" it is more like "prospecting for fish"  or trying to "cover the bases"  and I guess a shotgun vs. a 22   All these methods have their place in the fishing arsenal and I still do most of them and switch off depending on the situation (e.g. Lake O vs. the Finger Lakes for example) and it pays to be versatile sometimes even in the way specific setups are put together.  Probably the most important  thing in all of this is to have fun at what you are doing, try to learn from our successes and failures alike, and to get better at whatever we do in the process. Good luck to all you folks fishing in the Owasco Tourney

[fisherdude]

the post started with 3 fish on 1 rod . i fished  cayuga a lot this summer , had land locks on high leaders and lakers on bottom leaders . same time 

Edited September 10, 2016 by fisherdude

[TileMan Dan]

How do you know depth range those rigs are running at when in use?

[fisherdude]

the first thing i do i take my fish hawk td and find the temp to the bottom . if you want fish the bottom that is easy . want to fish the temp brake and you know the depth count down the feet you want . this summer the lakers were on bottom and suspended with LL and browns and bows at the temp brake above it and below feeding bait balls. 

Edited September 10, 2016 by fisherdude

[Sk8man]

Brian makes a great point and I forgot to mention that earlier. That is what I do as well and used to have temp meters in the past as well (the old Fishawk etc.). I clip the Fishawk TD to my downrigger when I'm out in say 120 ft of water before I set my lines out and run it down to 100 ft. I have a clipboard with a sheet listing depth in 5 ft intervals covered in plastic and I use a grease pencil to record the temp at each 5 ft interval and then look at the temp profile created. When there is an established thermocline it shows as the most rapid change in temp between intervals. I set my lines so that the thermocline is located in the middle of my setup.  It should be noted that sometimes the thermocline varies greatly throughout the water column as do the underwater currents so this is just a "starting point" but it usually makes a lot of difference in results knowing the approximate relationship. If I had a Fishhawk X series unit I'd be doing it in "real time" with the probe rigger and adjusting accordingly. A s far as determining the depth I'm running  again it is not precision trolling like with a downrigger. I "estimate" using the known length of my rig line (e.g. 120 ft = 10x12 bead chains) and then visually estimate the amount of mainline (wire) let out while watching the angle of the wire itself in the water from the rod tip and my boat speed and adjust as needed. If you are running braid and still have the line guide present you can count the times it goes back and forth on the reel as an estimate as well.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Sk8man

[fisherdude]

with todays sonars and line counting reels, you can get a good ideal where they are the water column . i watch the sonar when  some else  is setting up their leaders also . i also can see some of the leaders running while trolling with the sensitive turn up if running the rig high in the column . using heavy weights  keeps it in the cone zone  of the sonar . the more line you let out you lose it on the sonar 

[Netbender]

My head is spinning after reading this all in one sitting.....very good post...thanks guys.

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