Newest Salmon Stocking info. DEC. Ouch!

[Inthebox30lbs]

The article states, "it's not lack of nutrients". It's alewifes are at their max northern limit in the great lakes. Any further north, they would just not survive. So every hard winter kills off alewifes. That's what I got out of it anyway.

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So your saying the lake is as productive as it use to be??????

Edited September 15, 2016 by Inthebox30lbs

[chucknmel]

how do you take out lake trout? have a weekend derby all summer  . then take them home and eat them . 

 

I agree with the derby all summer but take them home and eat them . Yuck, using them for fertilizer sounds like a  better idea

[ITS A FISHAL]

So your saying the lake is as productive as it use to be??????

Lol, not at all did I say that. I said water was cleaner.

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[m3miller66]

The reduction of lakers and kings are like night and day, the Kings only live 4 years, where the lakers are here for 20+ years, I'd say cut the lakers by 30% and maybe go 5% on the Kings. If the pen rearing prodjects produce much better, then the guys who do the pens could easily make up the difference. Pray for a mild winter for the sake of the alewives!!, hope they take up gobies as there main appetizer, so they eat less alewives. LOL. This will prove interesting to say the least.

Good point pap and good long term thinking.

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[Char_Master]

Interesting topic here. I have to ask, has the reintroduction of Ciscos even been considered by New York or Ontario? I have multiple problems with relying on Alewives as the dominant forage population, including that they're invasive, they're intolerant of severe cold, and they're not a healthy forage species, especially for Salvelinus genus species (i.e. Lake Trout, which often develop thiamine deficiencies from consuming too many Alewives). On the other hand there's Ciscos which are native, very tolerant of the cold, and a healthy forage species for everything in the lake (Lakers, Salmon, Steelhead, etc) because of their higher fat content. If you look at the facts, the Cisco is truly the ultimate cold-freshwater baitfish and they once thrived in all of the Great Lakes before the invasive Alewives came along.

Personally, I'm much more fond of Lakers. To me, nothing beats the fight of a big 25 pound Char heading straight for the bottom like a sinking freight train that you just can't turn around until it lets you. I also think they taste better, I've only eaten a couple Lake Trout that I fatally hooked because I want to preserve the population, but man, they tasted better than any Trout or Salmon I've ever eaten, maybe even better than Walleye, the taste was comparable to a Brook Trout for those of you who have eaten them before. But I know I'm a minority here and most people would rather catch Chinook Salmon. I still love Salmon, but Lake Trout will always be my personal favorite.

I also noticed that there isn't much talk at all on the US side of the lake of Atlantic Salmon, which along with Lake Trout and Ciscos are the only other native Salmonid in the lake. I only caught a single Atlantic out of Lake O on my trip this year but it was easily the hardest fighting fish I caught and had to be over 20 pounds. Who can't love a fish that runs for 395' and then hauls at least four feet out of the water almost nonstop? Atlantics seem to be much less dependent on Alewives than Pacific Salmon are and often being referred to as 'The King of Fish', it seems like the DEC and MNR would be much more enthusiastic about restoring this species, yet there is little effort put forth to do so. Maybe people are just stuck in their old mindsets and are resistant to accept that the lakes have changed drastically over the past several decades and that they will continue to change in the future. Or maybe I'm just crazy. Thoughts?

[steelie]

Interesting topic here. I have to ask, has the reintroduction of Ciscos even been considered by New York or Ontario? I have multiple problems with relying on Alewives as the dominant forage population, including that they're invasive, they're intolerant of severe cold, and they're not a healthy forage species, especially for Salvelinus genus species (i.e. Lake Trout, which often develop thiamine deficiencies from consuming too many Alewives). On the other hand there's Ciscos which are native, very tolerant of the cold, and a healthy forage species for everything in the lake (Lakers, Salmon, Steelhead, etc) because of their higher fat content. If you look at the facts, the Cisco is truly the ultimate cold-freshwater baitfish and they once thrived in all of the Great Lakes before the invasive Alewives came along.

Personally, I'm much more fond of Lakers. To me, nothing beats the fight of a big 25 pound Char heading straight for the bottom like a sinking freight train that you just can't turn around until it lets you. I also think they taste better, I've only eaten a couple Lake Trout that I fatally hooked because I want to preserve the population, but man, they tasted better than any Trout or Salmon I've ever eaten, maybe even better than Walleye, the taste was comparable to a Brook Trout for those of you who have eaten them before. But I know I'm a minority here and most people would rather catch Chinook Salmon. I still love Salmon, but Lake Trout will always be my personal favorite.

I also noticed that there isn't much talk at all on the US side of the lake of Atlantic Salmon, which along with Lake Trout and Ciscos are the only other native Salmonid in the lake. I only caught a single Atlantic out of Lake O on my trip this year but it was easily the hardest fighting fish I caught and had to be over 20 pounds. Who can't love a fish that runs for 395' and then hauls at least four feet out of the water almost nonstop? Atlantics seem to be much less dependent on Alewives than Pacific Salmon are and often being referred to as 'The King of Fish', it seems like the DEC and MNR would be much more enthusiastic about restoring this species, yet there is little effort put forth to do so. Maybe people are just stuck in their old mindsets and are resistant to accept that the lakes have changed drastically over the past several decades and that they will continue to change in the future. Or maybe I'm just crazy. Thoughts?

You lost me at "maybe even better than walleye"

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[ITS A FISHAL]

You lost me at "maybe even better than walleye"

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Lol..lol

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[chinook35]

Lake Trout AKA "oil cans" grow great vegetables . That way they are not going to waste .

[Char_Master]

You lost me at "maybe even better than walleye"

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Walleye certainly taste good, but their taste is pretty boring and they need a lot of work before they actually taste like anything. I want to know I'm eating a fish and not just a piece of random meat. Ever try a Laker? They're no where close to as oily as people here make them seem, when prepared properly, that is.

[Char_Master]

Lake Trout AKA "oil cans" grow great vegetables . That way they are not going to waste .

I've never tried that, maybe some time I'll use the gizzards, skin, and head in my garden. But the meat is just too good to not eat.

[justtracytrolling]

Lakers better than walleye? You're taste buds need a tune up... maybe even a complete overhaul!!!! Walleye is mild but if you don't over season it it has a wonderful flavor...and as far as fish oil goes it absolutely loaded with it if you fish for eyes off shore on bait!

[Char_Master]

Lakers better than walleye? You're taste buds need a tune up... maybe even a complete overhaul!!!! Walleye is mild but if you don't over season it it has a wonderful flavor...and as far as fish oil goes it absolutely loaded with it if you fish for eyes off shore on bait!

My taste buds are fine, there's a reason that the original lake trout collapse occurred in the lakes, they were severely overfished because of a market demand for their meat! Although Sea Lamprey certainly didn't help the matter...

But getting back to my main point from the original post, anyone have an opinion on Cisco recovery efforts?

[ITS A FISHAL]

My taste buds are fine, there's a reason that the original lake trout collapse occurred in the lakes, they were severely overfished because of a market demand for their meat! Although Sea Lamprey certainly didn't help the matter...

But getting back to my main point from the original post, anyone have an opinion on Cisco recovery efforts?

The Cisco efforts, (herring) is already underway. Deepwater cisco have started in 2012/2013 Ranging around 10000 stock fingerlings. Oswego and Irondequoit bay.

Might be why you catch salmon out deep. Cisco like deeper cold water.

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[ITS A FISHAL]

Remember it's a food Web we are trying to create. Atlantics and LT love cisco. Salmon love alewifes. There is a prism of life here that has to work together. We are trying to play god the best we can on this lake. It starts with the plankton. Which brings other issues, (zebra mussels,etc). even the bait fish needs food.

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Edited September 15, 2016 by ITS A FISHAL

[Char_Master]

The Cisco efforts, (herring) is already underway. Deepwater cisco have started in 2012/2013 Ranging around 10000 stock fingerlings. Oswego and Irondequoit bay.

Might be why you catch salmon out deep. Cisco like deeper cold water.

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That's good to know, I wasn't aware of any current efforts, thanks for informing me. Do you know I they've done any studies on NR for Ciscos/Herring yet?

[GAMBLER]

Ciscos / Herring are very low in Thianamase.  This is what we were told at the state of the lake meetings. 

[Char_Master]

Remember it's a food Web we are trying to create. Atlantics and LT love cisco. Salmon love alewifes. There is a prism of life here that has to work together. We are trying to play god the best we can on this lake. It starts with the plankton. Which brings other issues, (zebra mussels,etc). even the bait fish needs food.

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Yes, trying to balance this system of natives, unwanted non-natives, and introduced non-native species is a challenge, especially when you consider that every angler has different preferences. Personally I'd rather see more Lakers, Atlantics, and Browns while many trollers prefer more silver fish (Chinooks, Cohos, Steelhead).

[Char_Master]

Ciscos / Herring are very low in Thianamase.  This is what we were told at the state of the lake meetings.

Hmm, maybe I'm getting mixed up with my chemistry. But I definitely recall that Ciscos are a healthier forage source and that excessive Alewife consumption will cause reproductive issues in Lake Trout. If I'm remembering right, whatever harmful substance is present in Alewives can cause early mortality syndrome in Lake Trout eggs, not allowing them to survive past a certain point (the embryo stage, I think). I was reading this a few places but the GLFC wrote a great article on Lake Trout reproduction (focused on how Lakers are starting to thrive again in Lake Huron), I'll see if I can dig it up.

[ITS A FISHAL]

That's good to know, I wasn't aware of any current efforts, thanks for informing me. Do you know I they've done any studies on NR for Ciscos/Herring yet?

Lake Michigan is where they are getting the eggs for Hatchery. They actually bust through the ice in January through February to get the big boat out to the center of Lake Michigan. They stocked over 50,000 in Lake Ontario last year. That's another reason why blue and silver and purple and silver is a good spoon choice out deep. Whoops, I let that one out of the bag.

I haven't heard of any reports of them harvesting spawn eggs from Ontario yet.

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[ITS A FISHAL]

Ciscos / Herring are very low in Thianamase. This is what we were told at the state of the lake meetings.

They also have more vitamin D than the alewives.

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[GAMBLER]

Alewives carry high levels of thianamse. Ciscoes and Herring - low levels. Therefore ciscos are way healthier for trout and salmon.

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[ITS A FISHAL]

Hmm, maybe I'm getting mixed up with my chemistry. But I definitely recall that Ciscos are a healthier forage source and that excessive Alewife consumption will cause reproductive issues in Lake Trout. If I'm remembering right, whatever harmful substance is present in Alewives can cause early mortality syndrome in Lake Trout eggs, not allowing them to survive past a certain point (the embryo stage, I think). I was reading this a few places but the GLFC wrote a great article on Lake Trout reproduction (focused on how Lakers are starting to thrive again in Lake Huron), I'll see if I can dig it up.

You are correct. Vitamin d. Is a important part. Alewives have very little.

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[ITS A FISHAL]

Alewives carry high levels of thianamse. Ciscoes and Herring - low levels. Therefore ciscos are way healthier for trout and salmon.

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X2

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[Char_Master]

Lake Michigan is where they are getting the eggs for Hatchery. They actually bust through the ice in January through February to get the big boat out to the center of Lake Michigan. They stocked over 50,000 in Lake Ontario last year. That's another reason why blue and silver and purple and silver is a good spoon choice out deep. Whoops, I let that one out of the bag.

I haven't heard of any reports of them harvesting spawn eggs from Ontario yet.

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Haha, I won't tell, but that's good to know when I'm out deep looking for chrome and Atlantics .

Alewives carry high levels of thianamse. Ciscoes and Herring - low levels. Therefore ciscos are way healthier for trout and salmon.

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Was it Thiamine or Thiaminase? I thought I remember them saying that Alewives have high Thiamine which is bad and Ciscos have high Thiaminase which is an enzyme that breaks down Thiamine.

I'll look more in to the Vitamin D too.

[Gator]

Thiaminase breaks down thiamine, which is more commonly called vitamin B1 and is an essential nutrient. Alewives are high in thiaminase. Trout that eat alewives can experience vitamin B1 deficiencies, which leads to reproductive failure. It's species-specific and depends on how much of the diet is comprised of alewives, among other things.