Last DEC Public meeting TONIGHT

[skipper19]

Might make sense to roll in the State-of-Lake meetings with the captain's meeting at the Pro/Am events. People are in town for the event and the events are spread down the lake.

Good idea! And run captured video from these DEC meetings.

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[Capt Vince Pierleoni]

No problem Skipper, permission granted. Safe travels on the highway.

Thank you Vince!....would have never known.... I will do the duty with hopes to bolster your very concerns!
I agree with all your comment above in its entirety concerning alewife population and favorable conditions that enhance the forage base and also increase the supply to meet the increased demand of the prime predators of the salmon...us...we the sportsmen and women of the waters of Lake Ontario.
Permission to copy and paste your above comments on this subject Captain Sir, and email to the address as indicated. ...With my signature. Thank you!
Mark

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[skipper19]

No problem Skipper, permission granted. Safe travels on the highway.

Alrighty then!..thanks again Vince! Taken care of..

Mark

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[Lucky13]

Tom,

Me and you may not agree on a lot of things. But You attend meetings, You use social engines CONSTANTLY and you express your experiences and question the people and science always.

I believe you put in as much time and effort as I do, If not more......

 

 

With that said we need to come up with recommendations the majority of us can agree to moving forward.

 

I also forgot to list the Pen rearing data, were we can increase our pen holdings up to %75 now (up from %50) in return for less direct stocked fish at each site (2 to 1 ratio on that exchange) ALL current pen fish up to the current %50 are Grandfathered in.

 

Tom,  Please check into the Hatchery water reservoir being EXTREMELY low. I do believe the DEC was thrown a curve ball  VERY LATE in the game---YESTERDAY on this one by Brookfield energy(?) 

 

Again , All the non existent turn out at these meetings I attended USA & CANADA is unbelievable to the people who did attend

 

You kind of stood out at the east end meeting I heard...... GOOD FOR YOU.

 

Jerry

RUNNIN REBEL

 

 

Brian:  as soon as the current lake trout abundance numbers start appearing, I will update. Currently we are up last 7 years from the near record low numbers ever recorded since 1980 and  2006-2007. But last year was the 1st year they started a decline.

I saw a friend who was in Redfield last week last Sunday, and he told me that the mudflats were showing up there, that is pretty close to just the river channel having water.  Brookfield is new to the management game, and the drought hit the Tug Hill very hard.  Back in July when the North branch should have been carrying 40 cfs to the Reservoir, it was running at 5!  They could run out of water to the River, not the hatchery.

[Lucky13]

 Yes & I'm the nicer one of the two owners!LOL.

Gill-T must not have kids and watch SpongeBob!  Great name for a ship!

[Lucky13]

I was at the Greece meeting, and could not get a word in edgewise.  I have also been part of the GLFC panel that met in the Spring in Niagara Falls, and has participated in 2 conference calls since then.  On those calls it has been necessary for the facilitator to poll the panel individually for statements to maintain order.  If you had an open line conference, pandemonium would ensue.  I think the poor turnout may be partially due to less than stellar promotion of the meetings, although the meeting was announced through MCFAB, and only two members of MCFAB were present, along with the MCFAB staff.  There may also be a feeling that the decision has already been made, and maybe it has, although as Steve says, it has to be brought up through management now before being implemented.  This has been in serious discussion for a long time now, it is not some overnight decision.  I think it is too early to make a judgment on fall returns as the temperatures in most of the tributaries have remained above what Bill Abraham called the " thermal barrier" level until just the last couple of days.  But the anecdotal reports I am seeing from the Salmon River have included fish running for three weeks, and for at least a week there have been fish reported from the Oswego.  According to Dave Agness, a large run went up the Genesee on Tuesday.  So this phase is just kicking off.  It appears that there has not been the " milling around" off the piers at night this year, but we had prolonged elevated temperatures, so the fish may have "staged" offshore.  And as to this year's hatch, lets see what is out there in the spring, after the winter so many are convinced will be mild.  I tried to get a crystal ball for my job for years, but never found one that worked!

 

From my perspective, no one, Steve or Andy, or anyone else, wants to make cuts in stocking numbers.  But the two bad winters have produced a "hole" in the alewife population.  There is a very real risk that heavy predation as those years move up in age could result in a deficit in future alewife productivity (few spawners equals few fish produced), and Steve and Andy feel these relatively conservative cuts mitigate some of that risk.  One possible alternative that could result from doing nothing is a continued downward trend in alewife productivity, and a deterioration in condition of  the remaining predators.  The ultimate result of that scenario would be Lake Huron, where the biologists have concluded that the "exotics" fishery is done as  the alewife has been eradicated, or a fishery like Michigan's where the kings are all 6-8 lb cookie cutters.  But I also guarantee that if the alewife collapses, many of the other stakeholders will weigh in for abandonment of the exotics program in Lake Ontario.  The Nature Conservancy was represented at the meeting in Greece the other night, and I know scientists at EPA involved with the Lakewide Action and Management Plan that are watching all this very closely.  Please also remember that Lake Ontario is an International water body, so the Federal and Canadian viewpoints also carry  lot of weight out there.

 

I am in line with many of the Canadians on the panel who thought the proposal would be much higher , something like 50% across the board, but the panel was assured by Steve and Andy on the last call that they are confident that the Alewife population will maintain with this modest cut. 

[Rich s]

L-13

Thanks for the contribution and insight passed along here as well . Getting a word in , is well , another voice heard if it's not on deaf ears .

Your pal , HT

Rich

[Trannyman]

This thread has been a very interesting read.

The following link is another interesting perspective in a blog by

Shane Thombs, an Ontario charter boat operator on the south shore.

Shane has also been a long time member of the Lake Ontario FMZ20

advisory council.

http://fintasticsportfishing.blogspot.ca/2016/08/in-march-various-newspapers-both.html

Our views on the stocking cuts in Ontario maybe be a little

different from our friends on the south shore because we

have experienced a decline (crash) in the sports fisheries on

Georgian Bay and Lake Huron.

Al

[Sk8man]

Thanks for posting the article. It certainly gives some food for thought and offers some important points for hopefully gaining better overall perspective on the issue (s). Sometimes it is hard to see the "forest for the trees" in understanding the complexities involved in this fishery and hard for some to get past the emotional aspects or vested interests in our own particular positions. It is always good to step back away from things and try to look at issues with a fresh perspective.  If anything this thread has provided a lot of useful information that we might not have otherwise been privy to and widened the discussion in many respects. Hopefully this dialog combined with responsible decisions by the critical players in this will lead to a good outcome and that is what is ultimately important to all of us regardless of views on the issues. The level of cooperation between the Canadian and American "coordinators" in this is also encouraging because this part of it could be a disaster waiting to happen if it were not the case. Despite the many difficulties and differing views on what is going on out there and how best to solve the problems we do need to keep perspective and be supportive of the efforts being made by folks on both sides of the lake and hope that Mother Nature also cooperates.

[TileMan Dan]

Interesting read in that article.

[Xxx]

X2- good thoughts there Les!! Naturally the one holding the biggest bag of hope is Mother Nature

[BSmaster]

Soon as he mentioned balance, I was hooked.  Very well written...

 

This entitlement idea is interesting in itself.  How is NYS going to react if people decide not spend money on this fishery given that they perceive the state isn't putting resources into it?  In my mind the cuts go deeper than just the charter businesses.  How comforting will it be for businesses to know that if you can make it for a couple of very bad years it will be great again?  Will the lenders understand?

 

I am not going to comment on the fish biology because I honestly don't know but the psychology of it is simple.  People will make the trek and spend money when it seems that is is good and will stay away when they think it is bad.  So in essence, I feel bad for everyone depending on the salmon (directly or indirectly) for their livelyhood.  The picture being painted is not good.  Hopefully, I am wrong.  Maybe the picture will look better next year and everyone will be excited to experience what Lake O has to offer.

[Xxx]

I agree BS. Word down here in Pa. Is already not good, the smallies aren't what they used to be, doesn't really matter what the reasons are, the eye fishing is tuff for the average person, now there talking cutting the salmon stocking, not a good pic. Painted for LakeO. I personally know 5 differant guys that pulled their campers out of campgrounds and looking towards Lake Erie or two of them got into Seneca already and caught more fish in a few outings then they did all year out of LakeO so??? Don't look or sound good.

[jimski2]

The zebra/quagga mussels forage on the algae as most of our forage fish. Why are there no comments on the effects of this biomass effects ? Just cutting stocking numbers is not the answer.

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[Musselhead]

Coming from Lake Michigan (which I'm sure many of you are aware of what we're going through), I feel I should chime in.

From what I see both on Facebook, this site, as well as other forums - I think some of you need to take a step back and put things in perspective.

In Lake Ontario you're missing 2 year classes of alewives. In Lake Michigan were lucky if we HAVE 2 year classes. Be thankful they want to keep numbers up.

Sure some boats struggled this year. In my 24 years on the great lakes, I've found the truth is every year there will be boats that struggle. No one is on top forever and no boat is destined to forever be last place. The key is adapting as fishermen. Not a single one of us - including the charters - will be a hero everyday.

As far as stocking is concerned - a 20% cut is nothing. On Michigan, we dealt with a cut 3 times that amount - all while they're stocking trout at 8-10 times the numbers you're seeing. We still caught kings. Be thankful they're (DEC) cutting those (trout) as well. It shows they DO want balance.

An ounce of prevention now beats a pound of pain further down the road. The fact is you guys have an amazing silver fishery. The last thing you want is to have it develop into a situation where there IS no control other than what mother nature decides to bless you with.

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[Musselhead]

Jimski2 - if you check out the Michigan-Sportsman website, under 'cold water fishing' there's multiple threads pertaining to the top to bottom effects the mussels have had. The guy to pay attention to on that site would be Cork Dust. He's a retired biologist that has a great understanding of the ecosystem and he doesn't hold back like current FnG/DNR employees would.

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[Musselhead]

Question - what have you guys had that would be similar to our mass-marking survey? Anything?

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[jimski2]

When my stickbaits drag bottom in 75 foot of water now they are loaded with mussels. Just how many of them are out there and what is happening?

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[TileMan Dan]

Lot of mussels out there and that is a good part of the problem. They are cleaning the water too well. Much to the effect that the bait fish don't have enough to feed on. Throw in two back to back record breaking cold winters and that is why the lake is where it is. Oversimplified but you should get the idea.

[GAMBLER]

I agree BS. Word down here in Pa. Is already not good, the smallies aren't what they used to be, doesn't really matter what the reasons are, the eye fishing is tuff for the average person, now there talking cutting the salmon stocking, not a good pic. Painted for LakeO. I personally know 5 differant guys that pulled their campers out of campgrounds and looking towards Lake Erie or two of them got into Seneca already and caught more fish in a few outings then they did all year out of LakeO so??? Don't look or sound good.

That smallmouth population will not rebound until the creel limit is reduced.  It is silly that the smallmouth population is WAY lower than it was years ago, yet you can still keep 5 a day.  Not good management practices IMO. 

[Xxx]

That smallmouth population will not rebound until the creel limit is reduced.  It is silly that the smallmouth population is WAY lower than it was years ago, yet you can still keep 5 a day.  Not good management practices IMO.

X2

PLUS catch and release, pull the female or the male till it gets back to the nest the gobies have it destroyed. You don't even s need hook on, just put a worm on the swivel and you'll catch a smallie. Guys talk about sportsmanship and ethics, well where the hell are they. Here's a prime example of no sportsmanship and no ethics if one calls this fun. One is only thinking about themselves and bragging rights, it's not that hard to catch a 6#er off the nest!!?!!

[ut_falcon]

I grew up on Georgian bay and the salmon were never as big as lake ontario, 36 pounds was the biggest fish officially recorded. I remember big schools of alewifes showing up in the spring lots of gulls feeding on them.

There are still small numbers of alewife around but now it's the smelt populations that support the salmon fishery. Good numbers of salmon are still around and lots of natural reproduction, its not all gloom and doom. Lots of fish in the 15 pound range are caught while the derby winner is usally mid 20s now instead of low 30s. The smelt are smaller then the alewifes so you're not going to see the bigger fish anymore but still good days fishing to be had and the population is stable. I was up there a few years ago and the run was bigger then I ever remember.