Salmon River Egg Collection

[Gill-T]

I was thinking about this on the way home.  They use the 2yr olds for this.  In mother natures world those fish typically would lose the battle and don't get to fertilize eggs.  In the manipulated world they are being used.  Makes you wonder if it affects size or running as a Jack.  

 

 

Brian, I was thinking the same thing.  Using more "efficient" less labor intensive 2 year old King sperm may increase fertilization rates and therefore less work for hatchery workers BUT is a horrible idea for the genetic well being of the species going forward.  Their methods are artificially selecting for two year old spawners to pass on their genes instead of the biggest and strongest.  We got one hatchery.........get it right!!

Edited October 20, 2016 by Gill-T

[A-TOM-MIK]

 

 

 I bought Eggs like Hollow grinder &  Braddock Bait shop ETC. Did.   It was convenient and I paid more than these places. I left clean 5 gallon pails & cash envelopes on every Charter boat on the PM ride home that had eggs. I could tell you how big the salmon runs there were yearly  and exact dates of the yearly runs, based on my records kept of salmon egg pounds collected and when.  A company called Tempo-Tech from Michigan (Rick Bovee owner ?) would pick up Hundreds of #'s of eggs every few days from my home garage refrigerator.

Jerry: This was truly a cartel: Have a read when you get some time

http://seedmagazine.com/content/article/the_caviar_kings/P1/

 

Tempotech, run by George Jackson and Robert Gehl, obtained a contract to harvest salmon and salmon eggs from Lake Michigan, where, because the waters were considered relatively uncontaminated, salmon (and its roe) was deemed fit for human consumption. Tempotech maintained two egg-processing facilities—one at its headquarters in Hart, Michigan, and one

in Pulaski, New York.

However, Jackson and Gehl decided to use the Michigan contract as a cover to launder Lake Ontario salmon eggs,

which could only be legally sold as fisherman’s bait. Tempotech’s own analysis of the eggs showed high levels of polychlorinated biphenols (PCBs) and mirex—a banned pesticide linked to cancer, stillbirths, and reproductive disorders—but still Jackson and Gehl sold nearly one million pounds of the contaminated eggs, most of them to Gold Star. The eggs would have an eventual market value of $16 million.

The salmon eggs processed at the Pulaski plant were packed into 45-pound buckets clearly labeled with the warning stickers. But once in Michigan, the eggs were repacked, this time without the “bait†label, and then shipped to Gold Star, where they were resold directly to the public for consumption as caviar. Caspian Star’s records indicate that each bucket was referred to as a “piece†of caviar. A typical shipment contained ten pieces—450 pounds. A Tempotech manager confirmed to DEC investigators that “all Pulaski caviar went to Gold Star.â€

DEC tests performed on Gold Star’s salmon eggs confirmed high levels of mirex. One investigator noted that Jackson had personally delivered the contaminated caviar to Gold Star.

Panchernikov paid for the shipments with shopping bags and attache cases full of cash—payments which totaled, according to court papers, “cumulatively many millions of dollars.†As a result of the DEC’s investigation, Gehl and Jackson were convicted in February 1995. Gehl was sentenced to 87 months in prison and fined $250,000, and Jackson was sentenced to 70 months. Tempotech itself was fined and forced to forfeit funds totaling nearly $1,500,000.

While no criminal charges were filed at the time against Gold Star or Panchernikov personally, the company was identified as an “unindicted coconspirator†in the Jackson and Gehl case, and the DEC instead pursued a civil action against Gold Star. The company admitted violating New York State’s Environmental Conservation Law by improperly harvesting and selling contaminated salmon eggs, and got off the hook with a $230,000 fine.

Koczuk may have been on the top of his world for many years, but climbing to the top always pisses off someone. By October 28, 1998, he had clearly pissed off somebody very close to the heart of his organization.

The tip-off call came in to a US customs office in Frankfurt. The anonymous caller gave specific information: the airport, the flight, the date of arrival, the names of all the smugglers, and what they would be carrying.

The customs agent dialed his counterparts at JFK, who in turn placed a call to their colleagues at the US Fish and Wildlife Service. The call was answered by FWS Special Agent Ed Grace, member of an elite investigative core at the heart of the FWS that trains alongside the FBI. Many Special Agents are biologists, and all are armed. One of their jobs is to take down smugglers of endangered species. Grace wrote down the smugglers’ flight arrival time and looked at his watch.

There were only two hours to go.

“Look, how are we supposed to fight corruption when a police lieutenant doesn’t make enough to feed his family?†one lieutenant colonel in the Astrakhan fisheries police says bitterly. “I have served 25 years and earn less than $300.†But despite the police’s professed economic woes, nearly half of the cars in the parking lot of the dusty fisheries police building were BMWs or Volkswagens. When asked whose cars they were, the department’s senior officers claimed they belonged to “visitors.†The cars were in the same parking spaces three days in a row.

Although 1,400 people were caught for poaching last year in the Astrakhan region, police admit that not one of them received a prison term, which could be up to three years for a convicted poacher. Most were instead fined between $40 and $2,500, the maximum penalty.—The Moscow Times

.....continued on the link I posted, I knew these guys and still remain friends with Rick Boeve from Muskegon MI, who operates out of Pulaski each fall

like noted: everyone knows everyone, even us innocent guys trying to bang out a buck in the fishing indusrty 

Tom

[RUNNIN REBEL]

Tom,

That is awesome timing on that article.. Today Oct.21st,2016 ?

Please Tell Rick Boeve "Hello" from me, He should remember the Tons of white 5 gallon buckets he delivered and picked up in my Garage and  Refrigerator....."I don't want any dark or black eggs son, only orange/light color accepted":

 

HaHaHa  Tom, we are both old, if you are  members of the USA/Russian "SALMON EGG CARTEL"

 

Jerry

RUNNIN REBEL

Edited October 21, 2016 by RUNNIN REBEL

[blueghost1]

dumb question but is this all open to the public? would love to take the kids to see

[GAMBLER]

dumb question but is this all open to the public? would love to take the kids to see

The Salmon River Hatchery is open to the public.  We went and saw the process years back. 

[blueghost1]

[Xxx]

On our way to and from our camp in the Black River Camp Ground, we go right past the exit on RT. 81. to the hatchery. I had been there before in the season, when snagging was legal, just to watch the process, it's one of the most interesting things I've ever watched being done, and 3 years ago I took my daughters there and for 8 year old girls to say that was really neat dad, can we come back when the little fishes hatch so we can see them, that's really something to me!! Just the mounts and all the map size information of every fish they deal with is worth the trip. If every salmon, trout, and differant specie fisherman/lady would go to the hatchery before heading to the streams/rivers I think it would paint a differant pic. in their mind and maybe, just maybe one would have more of an idea of what goes on for yourself to be able to catch a fish.

Edited October 21, 2016 by pap

[Lucky13]

DEC announced today that the Chinook egg collection is completed, and they will be starting cohos next week.  And they opened the Lower Fly Zone, just in time for the river to completely blow out with all the rain.

Edited October 21, 2016 by Lucky13

[RUNNIN REBEL]

The Salmon river will increase it's flows nearly 8 X higher than normal ,because of HEAVY rains & Reservoir FULL. 

This could be the best salmon run in years.  I will try to update next week.

 

Jerry

RUNNIN REBEL

[GAMBLER]

The Salmon river will increase it's flows nearly 8 X higher than normal ,because of HEAVY rains & Reservoir FULL. 

This could be the best salmon run in years.  I will try to update next week.

 

Jerry

RUNNIN REBEL

Hopefully the res does not get too full and they blow the river out.  That will not be good for natural reproduction.

[nightfisher]

Upper rez was still 7 feet low when I checked it at 4pm.

[RUNNIN REBEL]

UPDATE

 

Tue Oct 25th

Collected 364,000 Coho eggs Tue.

They hit the 1.56 million egg collection mark for COHO Eggs by end of tueday.

The Total Coho egg collection Target this year is around 1.8 Million eggs.

That total should be met by the end of this week.

 

The reservoir is about 2 feet above where they would like it. So going to set the river flows to 335 CFS (Normal flow range)

 

Jerry

RUNNIN REBEL

Edited October 26, 2016 by RUNNIN REBEL

[Xxx]

Cool, normal flow, haven't heard that statement all year!! Thanks for the update.

[Char_Master]

I'm curious about a few things pertaining to this topic. Forgive me if the answers to some of these are obvious as I'm new (last spring-ish) to observing and taking part in Lake Ontario's fisheries.

To start, I see that they're aiming to collect 1.8 million Coho eggs and 3.0 million Chinook eggs, but from what I've seen, Chinooks very much dominate the fishery. If all of these eggs are spread out equally over various NY Lake Ontario tributaries, then why aren't the Coho returns as high as one would expect? If I had never seen the numbers of fish that constitute tributary runs, I'd say there should be at least a single Coho for every two to three Chinooks, but that doesn't appear to be the case. More like a single Coho for every 20-30 Chinooks.

Second, approximately how many Atlantic Salmon are stocked in Lake Ontario tributaries annually? Based on what I've seen, the overall catch rate seems to be a single Atlantic for every 100-200 Chinooks, or something roughly around that ratio. I thought I'd heard about 50,000 total per year somewhere but I'm not sure how recent that statistic is. They do seem to be slightly increasing in abundance (not that they're abundant in any way) over the past several years, but still appear to be a rare catch among anglers.

For the time being, I'll jeep my thoughts and ideas on the fishery to myself until I receive more unbiased information on the stocking, NR, and return rates for these species, but I do have strong opinions about the fishery, both the abundance and diversity of the salmonids and the forage populations.

[GAMBLER]

I believe they had some trouble in the past with sterile cohos.

Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United

[Char_Master]

I believe they had some trouble in the past with sterile cohos.

Sent from my iPhone using Lake Ontario United

Pertaining to Thiamin deficiency or something else?

[salmonboy41]

Pertaining to Thiamin deficiency or something else?

Last I remember they didn't have a great answer other then they where going to take the eggs at a lower temp then before.  basically this is an ongoing debate as to why as they used to have eye up rates around 60% now there like 20% sometimes. Personally I think the hatchery process is causing us to have sterile fish and we should get new eggs from out west. 

[Char_Master]

Last I remember they didn't have a great answer other then they where going to take the eggs at a lower temp then before.  basically this is an ongoing debate as to why as they used to have eye up rates around 60% now there like 20% sometimes. Personally I think the hatchery process is causing us to have sterile fish and we should get new eggs from out west.

Certainly a possible theory. I'd like to see some new Steelhead stocks as well, from BC populations such as the Skeena River, those would make some magnificent adult fish in the Great Lakes.

[ut_falcon]

Just throwing this out there but there seems to be a lot of hybridization between coho and chinook, does this produce a stile offspring like splake or other hybrids? Could the hatchery be accidently taking some sterile hybrids?

Would love to see some skeena river steelhead added to the lake as well as seaforellen browns.

Edited November 2, 2016 by ut_falcon

[Char_Master]

Just throwing this out there but there seems to be a lot of hybridization between coho and chinook, does this produce a stile offspring like splake or other hybrids? Could the hatchery be accidently taking some sterile hybrids?

Would love to see some skeena river steelhead added to the lake as well as seaforellen browns.

That's another good theory. I believe almost all of the Salmonid hybrids are sterile, but I could be wrong. Caught a "Pinook" last July in eastern Lake Erie but other than that I haven't personally encountered any hybrids.

Wonder how big Skeena chrome would get in the environment of Lake Ontario, certainly it would have to be larger than the domestic "Rainbow" strain Steelhead. Seaforellens would be great too, which, being a deeper strain, would make great bonus fish for guys deep trolling for Steelhead, Chinooks, and Lakers.

[Xxx]

Lots of ideas but we keep going back to the same OL' same OL' maybe it's time to rejuvenate the stock with fresh eggs instead of milking the same old cow. I'd love to see them bring in those bigger coho's, like posted above they have to be bigger than the rainbow strain we have now. Food for thought!!!

[salmonboy41]

Lots of ideas but we keep going back to the same OL' same OL' maybe it's time to rejuvenate the stock with fresh eggs instead of milking the same old cow. I'd love to see them bring in those bigger coho's, like posted above they have to be bigger than the rainbow strain we have now. Food for thought!!!

just imagine if we got fresh eggs for kings say from the Kenai and the fish from those eggs took well to lake O. 

[Char_Master]

just imagine if we got fresh eggs for kings say from the Kenai and the fish from those eggs took well to lake O.

Snaggers are going to need heavier rods . Now this is getting interesting, Skeena Steelhead, Kenai Chinooks, new Cohos (from anywhere at this point...), Seaforellen Browns (and why not throw in some Ferox strain too), and then for us crazy guys, some Great Bear Lake Redfins!

[Xxx]

Snaggers are going to need heavier rods . Now this is getting interesting, Skeena Steelhead, Kenai Chinooks, new Cohos (from anywhere at this point...), Seaforellen Browns (and why not throw in some Ferox strain too), and then for us crazy guys, some Great Bear Lake Redfins!

LOL Red Fins Yet!! Go big or go home right!!, the guys are ****ing already about the lakers we have now!!, they are the Grand Daddy of lakers, they alone would eat the lake out of house and home. This has been an interesting thread from the start. One might think they know their fish and most do, "I like to think I do" but I got a real eye opener, with some of the species mentioned here. I know all was in fun and even a gleam in our eyes. But if I ever won the lottery I would like to fish for all of the above monsters of the deep fresh water fish. All in all I got one hell of a education. That's what this site is all about. PAP.

[BozotheClown365]

A guy in the hatchery told me that they are changing their practices and monitoring males sperm to improve fertilization and they think its working, not genetics.

I think Seafarellin browns were tried once but their survival stunk and DEC dropped the program.

Charmaster the # of eggs collected is misleading. 1.8 million kings are normally stocked vs 250k coho in new York. 50k Atlantics

Edited November 3, 2016 by BozotheClown365