Traditions pursuit muzzleloader

[youp50]

I probably have 50 or 60 Barnes TMZ 250 gr bullets left.  Years ago retailers would sell off old stock at deep discounts.  I think the last 54 fan me around 35 cents each.  (Those days are gone. Not sure why they were marketed in 18 round packages.)  My particular ML does well with the old smooth yellow sabot.  An email to Barnes and I had a couple hundred or so delivered to the door, no charge.

 

I like to shoot my ML for the fun of it.  Just doesn't make much sense to use up my Barnes to burn powder.

 

I do shoot 300 gr bullets.  I have some Barnes Original 300 gr bullets that have been documented deadly at over 400 yards.  Hard to beat a standard cup and core 300 grain hollow point .458 bullet at 2200 fps.  Kills dead, plenty of penetration, less cash.  I save 50 to 60 bucks a year at the range with them.  (Not the Barnes Original, they are as spendy as the mono copper bullets.)

 

I also have a Savage ML10.  I have had 300 gr over 2600 fps on my low end non-certified chronograph.  Kicks way too hard.

 

If you are not satisfied with the accuracy of the Barnes copper bullet, try knurling them.  Lay the bullet on a flat bastard file and roll it back and forth with another file.  It will be a bit tighter in the bore of your ML and has been proven to enhance accuracy.

[Xxx]

Omg Youp50!!! I actually have a knurle machine for bushings that go into the older Prestolite marine starters, the center plate support bushings used to fall out and the armature shaft used to wear a little so the bushing would just fall through. Prestolite discontinued making the center plate wich rendered the starter useless!! A lot of 470 still out there yet so I picked up a bushing knurl machine which made the bushing fit much tighter along with a anabolic "green sleeve locker" cured this dilemma but quick!! So I used this tool to knurl the power belts so they fit tighter, I could push those bastards all the way down with no effort and near the powder area it felt like it fell down. Concerns of the bullet walking forward I needed a way to fix this, even if it was nothing to worry about, it made me nervous. AAHH the knurle tool, that fixed that problem, and it was adjustable as to how much knurle you wanted. To this day well a few years back I put a mild knurle on all my bullets. I was told by a fellow I met at a gun shop in Walnutport at A F Boyer to cut every other leaf off my sabots holders and knurl the bullet, this will start the rotation from the rifling as soon as the bullet moves forward, this will improve accuracy and speed at the muzzle. I had a old CVA the one where you pull the primer bolt back and the safety you pushed forward to shoot, but if you didn't set the safety it could catch on a stick or branch and pull the bolt back and fly front and set the gun off!! Well with his info that piece of shyt shot on a silver dollar at a 100 yards. I did this to all my In-line black powder rifles. CVA Traditions break open and my brothers Knight, the early style, where the primer pushes into that red plastic thing then you close the bolt over it and you need this little pick to remove the primer holder out of the breech, ya nice!! $1000,00 gun at the time but the only foul weather gun at the time. Our flintlock season opened today. With inheriting my brothers guns and mine plus my father in laws flintlock I can carry three guns now!!! LOL one over each shoulder and hunting with the other. LOL ya right!! Long story short I've been knurling bullets for a good 10-15 years now!! It works!! PAP.

Edited December 27, 2016 by pap

[tangledline]

Great info guys!!! Thanks!

[youp50]

Do you index your sabots?

 

Best done in the winter, the process involved is to recover the spent sabot and learn where to put the sabot splits to ride over the grooves.  The winter makes finding black sabots easier.  

 

The practice is to fully engage the sabot petals onto the lands of the rifling.  Or to place the splits over the grooves. 

[justtracytrolling]

I had the same experience with 300 grain bullets in my savage...Just a bit much in the recoil department for my taste, but very accurate. Do you use a spin jag loader?

Justin Okrepki

NYSDEC licensed guide #7324

http://www.otiscolakeguideservice.com/

(607)-349-1750

[Xxx]

Do you index your sabots?

 

Best done in the winter, the process involved is to recover the spent sabot and learn where to put the sabot splits to ride over the grooves.  The winter makes finding black sabots easier.  

 

The practice is to fully engage the sabot petals onto the lands of the rifling.  Or to place the splits over the grooves.

LOL! No I haven't taken it that far, BUT we might be on the same page here, because we needed to recover the sabots also to see that the knurling has reached the rifling as the pedals got pressed to a much thinner thickness than before the shot and the knurling has reached the rifling. My father in law with his tri axels bumped 22 ton of sand in front of our shooting bank, so the bullets weren't smashed to unrecognized pieces and we were able to see a pattern of flat, knurling with rifled marks etched into the bullet, ect. which we very happy with, then flattened out area then rifling marks. So we knew that this whole theory wasn't someone blowing smoke up our arsh. LOL. One thing we did notice was the rifling was just that it reach the smooth area of the bullet, so that convinced us that the accuracy of the rifle "totally" rely solely on the sabot!! So,,, is a harder composite sabot better than or is a softer composite better, although harder the sabot the less friction or a softer sabot one would think would be more accurate, this is why we felt we had the best of both worlds. The black sabot that barns bullets came with and the knurling reaching into the rifling. You could debate over this theory till your blue in the face as there's to many variables in each theory. Thanks for bringing this up as I thought Bruce and I were the only two freaks thinking this far into this theory. Cool stuff, youp50!!!

[slipbob]

This is an interesting website if you are into muzzle loader shooting.  I shoot this company's Dead Center bullets with my Omega and they are easy to load and super accurate.  Highly recommended but you have to order them from Canada as I've never seen them in stores here.   

 

 

https://www.prbullet.com/

[tangledline]

This is an interesting website if you are into muzzle loader shooting.  I shoot this company's Dead Center bullets with my Omega and they are easy to load and super accurate.  Highly recommended but you have to order them from Canada as I've never seen them in stores here.   

 

 

https://www.prbullet.com/

I would I find out the twist to my T/C impact barrel. Nothing in the manual

[Xxx]

This is an interesting website if you are into muzzle loader shooting.  I shoot this company's Dead Center bullets with my Omega and they are easy to load and super accurate.  Highly recommended but you have to order them from Canada as I've never seen them in stores here.   

 

 

https://www.prbullet.com/

"This is very interesting" especially the magnum, rifle primers, as the inline became more and more popular Winchester came out with the "Muzzleloader primer" being that my family for generations, has been reloading shells from brass to shotguns, I could go on & on. But we've known that the Primers play a major role in shot shells from a cold CCI to a Winchester hot primer, we came up with a 1-3/8oz #5 shot for crows that blow the feathers off out to 40-50 yards with a 6 to 8ft lead, alright back to the subject primers are the kingpin of the whole ball of wax. I think I'm going to look into this buckhorn powder, lots of good news coming from this product. What makes me think this is good stuff is that it's loose, we have been using the 777 loose powder since it came out. If your going the extra mile with the rest of the goodies, then why in the world would you just put 2 or 3 pellets of unmeasured by yourself powder down the barrel, we measured our powder for the guns, especially once we started knurling the bullets and cutting ever other petal off the sabot. Great info here!! Now I need to get my Honey do list done in less than a hour!!! LOL PAP

[slipbob]

The thing to keep in mind with shooting Blackhorn powder is you need to use a magnum shotshell primer.  I use the CCI mags and they work great with the blackhorn and the factory breech plug that came with my TC Omega.  

[youp50]

No to the spin jags.  I do have two jags I use, one factory made to fit the Barnes 250 TMZ, I do not recall where I ordered it from.  The other is a custom job to fit the Hornady 4500.  I tend to follow the rifling down as push the load in.  I have a 'custom' palm swell, an adapted steering wheel spinner knob.  It takes approximately 50 pounds to load my ML, more as the barrel fouls.  The palm swell decreases the marks left in my hand from seating bullet and sabot.

 

Blackhorn 209 is interesting powder, it has been explained to me how it exhibits many progressive powder characteristics.  Never sunk in, so I cannot pass on the info.

[Xxx]

Well a progressive burn powder is naturally a fast burning powder which builds pressures fast to move a heavy load fast and this can be achieved with considerably less powder. 79/80 grains verses 150gr. Or 3 pellets. I've heard of 110gr powder of the Blackhorn to shoot 300+ gr bullets. I wouldn't want to be one the butt end of that, LOL, my mossberg is bad enough with 3-1/2" turkey loads OOOY that's gonna leave a mark!! LOL.

Other than the three pellets of powder, my story is in measured grains, not by volume, also a progressive powder is a flaky type powder, where the slower burn powder is like round, short pieces under a microscope The differences can plainly be seen. I edited this on the account of the lower post, which talks measured by weight, not volume also.

Edited December 28, 2016 by pap

[Dusty]

I use 70 gr by weight. Not to confuse anyone. About equivalent to 100gr by volume

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