Pulaski State of the lake

[Silver Fox]

Coho study is a waste. Should start the steelhead study ASAP.
The Browns on the Western tribs are being hammered on illegally. That's the problem there. It's prime time deer season for the officers and the skanks get away with everything.

Lake Ontario salmon fishing charters

[pvelyk]

I believe most of the people who go to the State of the Lake and other meetings and post actively here all want a healthy fishery with all the species treated with respect and managed to the best.  We all need to remember that commonality before we make it a us against them proposition.  Honestly I think the first step we all need to do is get on our local court systems to enforce our rules.  To many fish leave this fishery do to illegal means.  Davy you bring up the loss of Browns on the western ends.  You don't have to look to far for answers here,  there are cases of poaching with nets strung across complete creek channels during brown runs, small creeks wiped out buy gangs of organized poachers who are fishing for profit and not just the bend of the rod.   Brown eggs are cherished by these guys and they seem willing to do what ever they need to in getting them.  The DEC is running antiquated ticketing system with still all tickets written on paper and not going into the database so prosecutors know they are dealing with multiple repeat offenders.   Putting these poachers out of business is a major thing we can do to help both our stream and lake fish. Maybe if we band together and fight the government to help support the ECO's and toughen and support poaching laws instead of pointing our fingers at each other we will all be better way off.  We all gain when we work together.

[King Davy]

Yeah....as I stated to DEC and MNR...make the use of brown trout eggs illegal to use, and hammer the offenders with huge fines and loss of tackle....and it will eventually stop. Problem is we need to also take this up with our legislators as fines are way to light..... I spend a lot of time in Alaska...you pull this crap there...you're going to Jail.

 

[pvelyk]

Yeah,  after hearing the state of the ECO plight I definitely think they need our support.  They are not the problem they do the best they can with limited man hours, equipment and lack of upper governmental support.  We want them effective then we need to help them.

[Missdemeanor]

The bottom line is there is a small group of Trib guys pushing an agenda to get rid of Salmon stocking.... They showed their cards the other night....Actually saying " Since there is Natural Reproduction, Why still stock Salmon".... Then stated that most Trib anglers prefer Steelhead.... Another False statement proven by the numbers of people who partake in Trib fishing from Sept to Nov. Just because a guy doesn't have a fancy pants Orvis reel doesn't mean he doesn't count as a Trib angler. Yes there is always poaching, but there are good people who like salmon fishing tribs.. Just by pure numbers of foot traffic during those months says volumes. Those statements made at that meeting show exactly how selfish these people are...
Well the pen programs will continue as always.... Kings AND the beloved Steelhead will be raised by Charter Captains as well as recreational anglers.
By the way I stalked some facebook pages last night.... For guys who don't want kings stocked, they sure catch a lot and display big grins for the camera....SMH

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[King Davy]

Yes we've heard these thoughts. I've personally told them, as have many other Trib anglers have, this is not a realistic solution. We've managed both species for 40 years. What the majority of trib folks are seeking is not even more fish....just trying and keep the ones we have. There are several management options to do just that...that has no baring on stopping Pacific Salmon stocking. And neither DEC or MNR is considering any changes to the species line up.

 

We are hoping to get the old Watershed wide Stakeholders meetings started up again. Something Steve LaPan is looking into. We all need to be at the same table. .

 

[Tall Tails]

15 minutes ago, King Davy said:

Yes we've heard these thoughts. I've personally told them, as have many other Trib anglers have, this is not a realistic solution. We've managed both species for 40 years. What the majority of trib folks are seeking is not even more fish....just trying and keep the ones we have. There are several management options to do just that...that has no baring on stopping Pacific Salmon stocking. And neither DEC or MNR is considering any changes to the species line up.

 

We are hoping to get the old Watershed wide Stakeholders meetings started up again. Something Steve LaPan is looking into. We all need to be at the same table. .

 

So if you want everybody at the same table does that mean you wont be having any more closed door invitation only meetings like the one you hosted last month?  Pretty shady move.

[Missdemeanor]

It appears Canada is not having the same issue, maybe you guys should consider there is somthing gone wrong with the washington strain steelhead currently being stocked.As anybody knows, mutations happen in nature. Certain traits can get "bred out". Look at the Kings.... back when you were a Lake Charter Captain, kings in the upper 30s were relatively common. Now if you get one or two 30s a year, its a good year.
As far as this year....ive been out on a boat already. The browns Ive personally seen were the footballs of old days. Fat, healthy, little marks on them. I cleaned two and they were full of Gobies and smelt.
I agree we all need to work together, however hearing those statements the other night certainally proves that personal agendas will take precedent over the overall health of the lake.



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[GAMBLER]

A big issue in the tribs is keeping and stripping eggs for bait. I have seen guys milking fish stream side, slitting them open and leaving them on the bank, and keeping them just for eggs. Killing trout to catch trout baffles me. With the steelhead and brown population down, an egg ban should be put in place.


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[King Davy]

Well....the Steelhead situation has been affected in Canada. We have trib stakeholders on the International group. Many of the natal streams on the North shore are way down with recruited fish. The Ganny that used to get close to 20K fish above the fish ladder  has barely seen 4K fish the past three years. Bowmenville, Wilmont, and Duffins which normally has thousands of fish in the closed section had hardly any as of Early Jan, when the trib groups who have a massive organization and are actually involved in rearing fish, and helping MNR did a walk through to look for spawners.

 

So honestly both wild and hatchery fish appear to be struggling They are working on a 1 fish creel limit like we have for the North shore. Andy Todd didn't share any information on tribs. We should ask for his data.

[King Davy]

Shady move.???...we got invited. We got invited because through Scott's study there was some alarming changes to results from the earlier studies. We didn't invite all the regional managers and Steve Hurst. And the results of the meeting were offered to all at the SOTL meetings. Hopefully you took the time to pick them up and read them.

 

Everybody has to take this Clandestine, Agenda laden junk out of play. Many of us have been involved with working with DEC, MNR and USGS for decades to provide input on what we experience in the LO fishery, both in open water and in rivers and streams. Most of it is valuable insight. Are there those that have stronger personal feelings on all of this and are willing to express it.....I think we see that in this forum from the entire watershed. But where has any radical outliers forged huge management changes from DEC?  

 

Again stop making this personal...We (and we should be thankful) are being asked for our input on a regular basis from DEC USGS and MNR on all environments of this fishery. We are further down the road in a true partnership with these Science organizations than ever before,

[Tall Tails]

Interesting as I have seen minutes from that meeting saying you personally organized it.  From the lake side we tried to have someone attend and were told "NO".   So yea you either want everybody at the table or you don't.  I am all for a good productive conversation and have been part of organizations that routinely host public meetings.  We have never excluded anyone.  Maybe next time you should speak up and make sure the meeting is a "Public" meeting.  It may go along way showing that all groups and organizations want to work together and have an intelligent discussion on the future of the fishery.

[King Davy]

As a member of the International Stakeholder Committee Steve approached myself and Ron from Orleans Co. to reach out to known businesses,  rec anglers and trib groups to invite. We did just that. Tom Burke was invited, Kevin Davis, and the  head of the Oswego Co. River Guides association Steve Kowalski. As well as some pro guides from region 8 and 9. Tom stayed in touch on all the conversations with me  personally, but at the last minute had a conflict, Kevin was away, and Steve was there. I know all three run boats on the lake. They were invited not because they are Charter Boat Capt's, but run river trips. I have never met Tom or Steve, I was going on information provided us on resources from that area.

 

We put this together in a matter of days due to scheduling issues for DEC and some of the folks who traveled in the winter to Altmar from as many as three hours away.  I represented Trout Unlimited and my NYS Guide wife agreed to handle the secretary duties. And capture everyone's input.

 

Anything else you need to know know?

[Missdemeanor]

I guess having a lake charter boat isn't worthy of being a "known business"....
You said it yourself, all input from all areas of the lake are important. All areas.... The DEC had several meetings over that past year....EVERYONE ...was invited to attend. I don't think we have ever had a "Charter stakeholders" meeting... Even our club meetings are open to non Charter boat rec fisherman.
So now a charter boat guy finds out about the meeting, requests to attend and is denied? That looks funny.... Look at it from the outside if that's possible.


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[GAMBLER]

I guess having a lake charter boat isn't worthy of being a "known business"....
You said it yourself, all input from all areas of the lake are important. All areas.... The DEC had several meetings over that past year....EVERYONE ...was invited to attend. I don't think we have ever had a "Charter stakeholders" meeting... Even our club meetings are open to non Charter boat rec fisherman.
So now a charter boat guy finds out about the meeting, requests to attend and is denied? That looks funny.... Look at it from the outside if that's possible.


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It doesn't help that it involves a guy that has an agenda to bring back the Atlantic's.....


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[Sk8man]

1 hour ago, GAMBLER said:

A big issue in the tribs is keeping and stripping eggs for bait. I have seen guys milking fish stream side, slitting them open and leaving them on the bank, and keeping them just for eggs. Killing trout to catch trout baffles me. With the steelhead and brown population down, an egg ban should be put in place.


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Awhile back I read that the trout and salmon eggs are being sold as caviar and that is what the eastern block dudes are doing with the snagging etc. I always thought that caviar was just sturgeon eggs but apparently many types of fish eggs are regarded as a delicacy in the eastern block countries. Wherever $$$ are involved  there is always somebody with an angle to get them....

Edited March 15, 2017 by Sk8man

[King Davy]

Laughing I don't know who Tall Tails is...And I'm sure he doesn't have my personal contact info. The meeting was to get input from people who fish the tribs on a regular basis as a rec angler, or who run a business from the trib fishery. I guess I'll say...if the DEC asks Lake Anglers to meet to discuss issues just on the lake...I promise not to be offended, or accuse anybody of any wrong doing when not invited. My feelings won't be hurt.

 

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[King Davy]

Yeah Gambler.....we are going to have a world class Atlantic Salmon fishery with 60K yearlings and 150K fry a year. Get real. While I've caught some dandy's on the LO tribs...I take that Game to Labrador.

[King Davy]

We all should be paying attention to the proposed Federal budget cuts. From $300M to $10M could lose the lamprey program...and then it won't matter what the States put in the lake. The Atlantic Salmon and lake trout programs will go belly up for sure...no lamprey control, and Kings, browns and steelhead will be pure candy for lampreys..

[Tall Tails]

5 minutes ago, King Davy said:

Laughing I don't know who Tall Tails is...And I'm sure he doesn't have my personal contact info. The meeting was to get input from people who fish the tribs on a regular basis as a rec angler, or who run a business from the trib fishery. I guess I'll say...if the DEC asks Lake Anglers to meet to discuss issues just on the lake...I promise not to be offended, or accuse anybody of any wrong doing when not invited. My feelings won't be hurt.

 

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Dave,

 

I sit on the international stake holder committee with you... I have your personal contact information.  As the President of the Eastern Lake Ontario Salmon and Trout Association I can assure you many Lake folks were very upset not being included in that meeting.  I had two of my board members try and obtain access and were denied because they are just lake guys.  Just trying to keep the playing field level.  Look we all want the same thing (I hope)...

 

Brian Garrett

Tall Tails Sportfishing

[King Davy]

Well I saved all my notes...so who contacted me? Message me with their names and emails....as I have them all.

[Tall Tails]

What I am getting at is it should have been a public invitation say post the meeting here on LOU for instance.   Then nobody feels slighted.  I am done with this conversation.

[Gill-T]

Was there any talk about any on going disease studies of the salmonids while out in the lake?  To get the reduction in numbers we have faced there has to be a disease process involved. Perhaps a combination syndrome?  I have never bought into thiamine deficiency-only theory. There have always been bad winters. There have always been poaching, fishing tournaments, snatching, thiamine deficiency, and yes fly fishermen with fancy Orvis reels. So what is different?  The non-inclusive "secret meetings" and finger pointing by both sides needs to stop. Not sure if DEC is trying to pit one side against the other to deflect criticism but nothing is gained by division 

[skipper19]

I would hope that the GLFC would still be able to handle lamprey. Here's an example of too much overlap of too many agencies (GLRI) doing the same thing under the EPA. Good thing we can still do funding on a voluntary donation basis to the GLFC...unlike the overlapping EPA. Let's hope that the gutting is done with a scalpel and not a 12 inch Cimeter.

cent frum my notso smartphone

[King Davy]

Well Brian...I received a note from Lapan on 1/18 asking me to help put this together for a trib conversation. I just went through every email I received from 1/18 to 2/11...and I don't have any from a person asking to attend that as a Charter boat Capt. and not a trib angler....or even a trib angler that got turned away.

 

So I'd be happy to talk to those folks that got turned away...and you have my contact info...so feel free to pass them along.

 

This wasn't a conversation about the entire lake...it was focused on the tribs as requested by DEC. Maybe you should call Steve and complain to him as well. Don't know what else to tell ya sport.