Braddocks bay..The real story

[bluewater1861]

Braddocks bay..The real story

Can anyone fill us in on the status of this marina..Has the rock structure worked??.. Will it fill in again?  can boats get out of the bay?..The new owner has promised a lot, is it working?

[Silver Fox]

Been seeing breakers coming in where their are no rocks. So I believe that puppy is not dredged. Our south shore of this lake is embarrassing.

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[GAMBLER]

There is a ton of sand on the lake side of that rock breakwall.  They are going to have to do a TON of dredging to keep that from filling back in.  IMO, if they do not put jetties in, it will continue to fill in.  Have you ever dug in the sand?

[Xxx]

Got many hours in watching the kids build sand castles in the sand only to have the tide come in and wash it flat, that same thing will happen if they don't put breaker walls and jetties in also. Erie has them in every public launch. Erie is also sandy bottoms lake, 

[Legacy]

According to my source at the new marina dredging was supposed to begin April 1. Weather delays are now affecting the arrival of the dredge.

[rod hog]

Here are some pic taken this AM.

[Lucky13]

Please remember that the Marina project is one project, and was still in permitting last I heard, and the structure is part of a separate project designed to protect the marshland from continued erosion, not to protect the channel.   The rock was placed but the remainder of the barrier could not be placed due to low water in the fall, is slated to be completed in April and May, but could likely be delayed by high water.   Some of the sand for completion of the barrier will come from the channel area, so the channel will get dredged, but maintenance of the channel was never an item in the barrier project, only a consideration.   Finally, while it might be possible to place jetties on the ends of the barriers or at another location further restricting outflow of Salmon and Buttonwood creeks,  that will require a funding source other then GLRI (even if it is restored) as there was no money in GLRI for navigation projects.   Oh, and where pray tell, are these jetties that keep bay mouths open, Irondequoit was never supposed to need dredging and we've all seen how well that one works. 

 

http://www.lrb.usace.army.mil/Missions/Civil-Works/District-Projects/Braddock-Bay/

[whaler1]

The "real story" is Braddock's is not a navigable waterway. I have yet to see a summer where we had water to speak of going into July.  I have a 15 and a 22 and live on the bay.  There is a reason (many actually) that the 22 has been at East Fork on Sandy for 24 years.

[Gator]

When I came to Rochester thirty years ago as a graduate student I bought my first boat and kept it at the Marina on the West side of Braddocks. I can't even remember what it was called in that short lived iteration but at one point it was Skinners. I recall that Vic Mason ran it and helped me out greatly as a newbie on Lady O. Chewed me a new a-hole too one time for taking some kids out and not having a functioning bilge--and rightfully so. Anyway, the only way to get out in August was to blast through the "channel" on plane. If there was a hard east wind blowing, you weren't getting out period.

[BP Swing]

I'm not sure if its true or not but it was on the news that when Trump gutted the EPA, the Great Lakes clean water funding projects are going down the tubes including the Braddocks project. I hope thats not the case but I think it might be. It is and has been embarrassing that the only port the town of Greece has on the Great Lakes is like 2 feet deep and mostly unnavigable. Sad and even on the ponds they hassle people, cant park on the road at Cranberry, put a giant rock so you cant launch, little access on Buck, Round, etc. Town of Greece is a total joke and so is NY for allowing this to happen. Public access to the Great Lakes sucks in this area. I wont give an opinion on Trump because I dont want to blow a gasket. 

[Lucky13]

The Braddocks habitat project was totally funded out of prior year appropriations.  The GLRI is cut from Trumps PROPOSED budget, still a lot of horse trading before an actual budget gets passed (and how long has it been since they actually passed a budget in Washington, they have been working with continuing resolutions for funding. I think!)

[jimski2]

If you want a boat launch site on the Great Lakes consider the boat ramps constructed by the Canadians at Crystal Beach ON. A pier was constructed to deep water and boat ramps were at the end of it on the prevailing downwind side. The fill area is now used for boat trailer parking and shore fishing access. Google Earth maps site has a great view of this construction.


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[GAMBLER]

Here is a photo I got last night from a friend of a friend. There is already a lot of sand pushed up onto the rocks. Where do they think this sand will end up on a Northeast blow? My guess would be right in the channel.


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Edited April 11, 2017 by GAMBLER

[Silver Fox]

Here is a photo I got last night from a friend of a friend. There is already a lot of sand pushed up onto the rocks. Where do they think this sand will end up on a Northeast blow? My guess would be right in the channel.


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Hence, why in the hell are they fixing up a marina. If their were funds, I'd look at harbors in Canada and you'll find a solution quick.

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[Lucky13]

I am not aware of any Federal or state money being used at the marina, I believe that is being funded by the Danielli family.  Read the information on the USACE website, there was extensive modeling done for the headlands design, but it was NOT designed to keep a channel open.  Dredging will continue to be needed, as it is all along the south shore.  The north shore of Erie, where Crystal Beach is located, is a very different place, too.

[Lucky13]

Once the sand is placed, it will be planted with the kind of vegetation that holds dunes together.  Similar structures constructed by USACE on Lake Erie have held up quite well, and have not required addition of more sand.  Check out Simms Beach in Euclid Ohio, built in 1992.

Edited April 11, 2017 by Lucky13

[Silver Fox]

Unfortunately, everyone here cares about the channel being open and the rest of the stuff their doing now is secondary or not even on their mind.

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[GAMBLER]

29 minutes ago, Lucky13 said:

Once the sand is placed, it will be planted with the kind of vegetation that holds dunes together.  Similar structures constructed by USACE on Lake Erie have held up quite well, and have not required addition of more sand.  Check out Simms Beach in Euclid Ohio, built in 1992.

Yup and they built jetties on both sides of the one channel. 

[whaler1]

tremendous waste of money

[dvdegeorge]

10 minutes ago, whaler1 said:

tremendous waste of money

Democrats and Chuck Schumer are you surprised?

[BP Swing]

That channel has been like that for what 200 years?? They still dont have it figured out how to keep it open or just dont care. Too bad all our tax money goes to NYC or we might have money to fix things like this and the parkway stretch near Oak Orchard which is no longer useable. We cant use anything and have the highest tax rates in the country...... What a joke....NYS and the Town of unfriendly Greece.

[Lucky13]

3 hours ago, Silver Fox said:

Unfortunately, everyone here cares about the channel being open and the rest of the stuff their doing now is secondary or not even on their mind.

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This is likely true, but it is also unfortunate that the sport fishing community is generally so narrow minded.   If the habitat improvement aspects of the project are as successful as similar work accomplished in Buck Pond, the pike should be back big time in a few years.

 

Get your act together, and go petition the pols to come up with the money for a full navigation project.  There was no money available for that kind of work under GLRI.  And have fun with the permitting agencies like US Fish and Wildlife Service and NYSDEC, too.  

 

Please look at the attached presentation, which illustrates the historical record of the bay mouth.  The remnants of the trolley line that bridged the entire opening at the turn of the 19th century are still out there.

 

http://www.lrb.usace.army.mil/Portals/45/docs/BraddockBay/BraddockBay-PubMeeting-MAY-2015.pdf

[whaler1]

The pike fishing is just fine thank you.
Huge waste of money.


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[BP Swing]

Is this artificial barrier currently in place now? And will the navigation channel remain open naturally or will it still have to be dredged?

[Lucky13]

From my earlier post.

 

"The rock was placed but the remainder of the barrier could not be placed due to low water in the fall, is slated to be completed in April and May, but could likely be delayed by high water.   Some of the sand for completion of the barrier will come from the channel area, so the channel will get dredged, but maintenance of the channel was never an item in the barrier project, only a consideration.   Finally, while it might be possible to place jetties on the ends of the barriers or at another location further restricting outflow of Salmon and Buttonwood creeks,  that will require a funding source other then GLRI (even if it is restored) as there was no money in GLRI for navigation projects.    Irondequoit Bay outlet was never supposed to need dredging and we've all seen how well that one works." 

 

Every harbor mouth on the south shore requires maintenance dredging at some time, or eventually fills in.

 

It is possible to judge almost anything done by government as a huge waste of money.  In this case the money would have been spent somewhere in the Great Lakes, so why not here?  And as the GLRI was an environmental remediation funding stream that did not contain money for navigation projects, this was a possible use of some of the funding that would protect one of the largest remaining wetland complexes in the entire Great Lakes, and a very important part of the State FWMA system, which has importance for hunters, bird watchers, self powered boaters, and  other tax and user fee payers.  Other options were evaluated, but all offered less overall benefit, many at much more significant costs.  I heard no feedback about waste of money at the public meetings that were held, where the meeting room at the Greece Town hall was at capacity, there was nearly unanimous support for the project.    

Edited April 11, 2017 by Lucky13